[MOD] RLD now stands for 'Ridiculously Long Development time'

[MaxAstro]

As I'm sure nobody noticed, I was an active member for a while back and then suddenly vanished from the forums. Life got hectic, I lost interest in Civ, other assorted craziness. Well, thanks in large part to the new Great Commander mechanics, I've rediscovered my interest in Fall Further. To celebrate, I've decided to post an updated version of my mod-mod, Ridiculously Long Drop. It only has about half the features my old changelog promised, but hopefully no one remembers that anyway. Here's what it does feature:

Four-Tier Spell System
Probably the biggest addition - easily the one that took the most work, anyway - is the expansion of the spell system to four spells per sphere. The additional spell is added at a sort of "2.5" level, in between the original Mage and Archmage levels (in most cases; a few spells got shuffled around). Most units that were capable of Mage-level spells can learn the new spells, but there are a few exceptions (notably Vampires).

Also of note is the fact that the new spells require you to research the "node tech" associated with that mana type before you can learn the spell. This makes promoting past the original Mage level in any sphere impossible without the proper techs, placing a limit on how powerful heroes like Gibbon Goetia can grow if you ignore the magic line.

For simplicity's sake, Channeling III, Air III, etc. all now refer to the newly added spell level; the original Archmage level spells are now Channeling IV, Air IV, etc. Anyway, new spells in spoiler text below.

Spoiler :

Air III: Summon Nimbus - Summons a permanent but very weak flying transport.

Body III: Cripple - Gives -1 attack and +1 terrain cost to all enemy units in a 2 square radius. Can be resisted, 15% chance to wear off per turn.

Chaos III: Winds of Fate - Randomly applies either "Lucky" or "Unlucky" to all units - friend or foe, living or otherwise - within 1 square of the caster. Lucky gives +1 strength, +2 first strike chances, +20% withdraw rate, and +50% better result from tribal villiages. Unlucky gives -1 strength, -10% heal rate, -20% spell resistance, and +50% chance to defend the stack.

Creation III: Vitalize - Moved from Nature IV to here, as I had other spells I wanted to add to Nature and didn't feel Vitalize justified being an Archmage spell. As a minor tweak, lizardman civs can now use Vitalize to turn Grassland into Marsh; it works the other way around for everyone else.

Death III: Bind Corpse - Works identical to Dominate, but only works on undead. Has a 100% success rate when used on Skeletons, and will always fail against the Scions of Patria (at least until I figure out a way to just give them very high resistance). Neither Bind Corpse nor Dominate are lost on a failed attempt anymore; instead the caster will be slapped with a "Backlash" promotion that block spellcasting and gives other nasty side effects for a while.

Dimensional III: Summon Displacer - Permanent summons a strength 6 Beast unit. The Displacer will uncontrollably "phase" in and out of reality; while phased out it can't attack, is invisible to all units, and can move through all terrain at high speed. It cannot, however, cross water.

Earth III: Shape Earth - Terraforming spell that can turn a featureless, unimproved flatland into a hill, or vice versa.

Enchantment III: Animate Weapon - Summons a "fireball-like" disposable unit with strength based on (but not necessarily equal to) the strongest melee unit in the caster's stack. The animated weapon will have the weapon promotions (and even some of the equipment) of the chosen unit, and can be quite potent if you pair your caster with a well-equipped tier 4 melee unit.

Entropy III: Summon Imp - Something of a filler until I can put something better here, this really does exactly what it sounds like. The summoned Imp can gain levels and new spell promotions just like a normal Imp, but cannot be upgraded to a Mage. Later I may create a sort of Great Commander-like Master/Slave relationship between the caster and the Imp, having it be a sort of familiar.

Fire III: Meteor Swarm - It's BAAACK! Meteor Swarm has returned in all it's glory - and at a lower spell level - but this time it has a 3-turn casting delay. Very potent for sieging cities, but hard to use against mobile opponents. NOTE: Due to an unavoidable bug, Meteors will occasionally be summoned with an extra turn of duration. Consider it a fringe benefit.

Force II: Whirlwind - Mostly added because Kael originally stated that Force II was going to be Whirlwind when the Force sphere was completed. Works the same way as the Austrin's Bladewind ability, but more easily resisted and obviously without the damage.

Force III: Force Bullet - Force III now grants the ranged attack Force II used to, but with a slightly higher damage limit. Mostly moved to Force III to keep Amurite Firebows from promoting to it (see below).

Ice III: Icicle Lance - Voted "spell most in need of a better name". Basically a fireball, but does cold damage. Instead of collateral damage, it has a chance of Slowing all units in the stack it hits.

Law II: Rule of Law - A "building spell" like Wall of Stone and Hope, Rule of Law reduces maintenance and war weariness in cities. Boring but effective, like most Law spells.

Law III: Host of the Einherjar - Same as the former Law II spell, but got a slight strength boost. Not quite up to the "glory days" of when it was an Archmage level spell, but at least more likely to get use out of the extra duration from combat now.

Life III: Not actually a spell, the Life III promotion allows the unit to heal while moving, and provides a small healing rate boost to units in the same and adjacent tiles.

Live IV: Sharing a slot with Resurrection, Summon Lifespark has returned. Lifesparks are permanent summons with Medic I-III, allowing them to cast Cure Disease and Heal, and provide a considerable healing rate bonus to nearby units.

Metamagic III: Mana Fount - Another "building spell", with the notable difference that Mana Founts don't have to be maintained by a caster. Slightly increases the XP gain rate of arcane units in the city, and can be used as a one-shot spellstaff by any unit stationed in the city.

Mind III: Touch of Rage - A spell I am still not entirely sure is useful, but time will tell. Instantly Enrages all friendly units in the caster's stack. To keep a modicum of utility, possessing the Mind III promotion renders a unit immune to being Enraged. For obvious reasons, Alcinus is now barred from getting farther than Mind II in this sphere.

Nature III: Summon Guardian Vines - Just to make Magister Cultuum happy. Is a permanent summon. Guardian Vines now also have some poison damage, and 1 point of Nature affinity.

Nature IV: Acid Fog - My attempt to make Nature a useful sphere. Another "fireball-like spell, Acid Fogs have 8 poison strength, 2 Nature affinity, and an absolutely silly amount of collateral damage. They are, however, incapable of damaging units past 50%. Great way of severely weakening large armies, but overkill against single units. May end up losing the Nature affinity, as Nature is already one of the strongest affinity spheres thanks to Yvain.

Shadow III: Enshroud - Grants Hidden and Hidden Nationality to the caster. Possessing Shadow III also allows a unit to explore rival territory. Adds a much needed (IMO) "Esus feel" to Shadow mana.

Spirit III: Faith - Works much like Charm Person, but only affects Demons and Undead. Also gives -1 strength to affected units, and is harder to resist than Charm Person. May be expanded to include Ashen Veil units as well in the future. For now, the Scions of Patria are immune to this spell.

Sun III: Eye of the Sun - Technically a "fireball-like" spell, but not used offensively. The Eye of the Sun has high movement, great vision range, and the ability to detect invisible units and animals. Will probably become a permanent summon later, as right now there is little to recommend this over Floating Eye. Still a very effective way of rooting out invisible foes.

Water II: Summon Waverider - Water Walking has not been removed; rather, Water II now has two spells to make it a bit more useful. Waveriders are a poor-man's ocean transport; they are relatively slow and weak, but can allow you to get units across the ocean without researching Optics... or without having coastal cities, for that matter.

Water III: Giant Wave - Another spell that is basically a fireball, Giant Waves are designed for naval combat and attacking coastal cities. They can obviously only be summoned next to water, and are intended to die upon entering a land tile (after attacking any enemy in that tile). Currently, however, that bit of code is still being worked out; when it is working, Giant Waves will get a bit of a movement boost.

My Version of the Amurites+

Well, I could hardly make such massive changes to the spell system without also giving some love to the (supposed to be) #1 magic civ. Building off of the changes already in place, my main intent is make rushing the magic tree a viable strategy for the Amurites.

Spoiler :

Wizard's Hall/Cave of Ancestors free spells: Instead of the Cave of Ancestors replacing the free spell chance from the Wizard's Hall, it gives units a second chance at a spell promotion. If you are very lucky (or have a lot of mana) you might see some units born with two different spells. Also, Workers can now get free spells (Workers with Haste are awesome!).

Bladedancers: The Amurite Swordsman replacement, Bladedancers can't use Mithril weapons and get no city attack bonus. They do, however, start with the ability to cast Dance of Blades and Blur, giving them a magical edge in combat.

Firebows: Overhauled in a couple different ways. They are back to starting with Fire II instead of having a unique version of Fireball. They also lose the ability to use weapons, but start with Flaming Arrows. Additionally, they have Channeling II - which comes in handy if they get free spells from a Wizard's Hall - and can promote to Spell Extension I and II. Overall, they are a bit weaker in straight combat, but more effective with their magic. Might give Bronze and Iron weapons back to them, if it turns out they are nerfed too much.

Apprentices: the Amurite Adept replacement. Apprentices don't have any innate advantages, but they have much more potential than normal Adepts. In addition to upgrading to Wizards, they can choose to instead upgrade to a Spellsword (see below), Firebow, Horse Archer, or Ranger. Even more usefully, once Sorcery is researched, any unit that has upgraded from an Apprentice can promote to Channeling II at level 4 (although they must spend a level to do so).

The School of Govannon: The cornerstone of the Amurites' mid game. Replacing the Alchemy Lab and available at Arcane Lore, the School of Govannon provides all the functionality of an Alchemy Lab, enables training of Spellswords, ~and~ enhances the free spell providing abilities of the Wizard's Hall and Cave of Ancestors.

Spellswords: The Amurite Champion replacement, Spellswords are available at Arcane Lore instead of Iron Working. They have 1 less strength than Champion and can't use Mithril weapons, but are "demi-mages" in addition to being effective fighters. They start with Channeling I and II, and are allowed to learn new spells as if they were Arcane units. Best of all, their position on the tech tree means the Amurites can almost ignore the melee tech tree and still stay somewhat militarily competitive.

Fort Commanders

Imported from Fall Further Plus, but modified to suit my own tastes, Fort Commanders greatly increase the usefulness of Forts, not only by providing more or less free defenders, but also by allowing them to generate culture.

The basic Fort Commander is a strength 3 unit with high bonuses against melee and mounted units and a potent, collateral damage-causing ranged attack. They can gain XP from combat and ranged attacks, but also gain free XP over time. At levels 3, 5, and 7, they gain +1 strength and an increase in ranged combat effectiveness. At level 4 they can promote to "Expanded Influence", spreading culture to the adjacent tiles. Should they get all the way to level 8, they can promote to "Legendary Influence", spreading culture over another ring of tiles beyond that (currently the influence is square-shaped; I am looking into code to make it BFC-shaped).

The following spoiler details the civs that currently have UU fort commanders, in no particular order:

Spoiler :

Ljosalfar: Saggitar - A potent archer, the elven Saggitar starts with Woodsman I and is allowed to promote to the Archery line of promotions. It is also the only unit in the game with a two-square ranged attack, allowing a well-placed Saggitar to strike at distant enemies. To make up for this potent (and potentially lethal) ranged attack, the Saggitar does not deal collateral damage.

Sheaim: Pyrelord - Comparing a Pyrelord to a Fort Commander is much like comparing a Pyre Zombie to an Axeman: The Pyrelord is undead, has some fire damage, and, oh yes, is a VERY sore loser. A defeated Pyrelord will not only do more explosion damage than a Pyre Zombie, but also completely destroy its former Fort, keeping it out of enemy hands.

Bannor: Garrison Captain - Halfway between a Fort Commander and a Great Commander, the Garrison Captain has a weaker ranged attack and smaller bonuses against melee and mounted units than a normal Fort Commander, but can lead up to three units and promote to most Great Commander promotions. In addition, all units under the Garrison Captain's commander are given the Guardsman promotion (mostly to protect the Captain).

Khazad/Luchuirp: Clanhold Cheiftan - Not terribly different from the average Fort Commander, the Clanhold Cheiftan's main advantages are that it starts with Guerrilla I and a higher raw strength. It does lose a little ranged strength in exchange, though.

Chislev: Windtalker - In exchange for a very small reduction in ranged strength, the Windtalker starts with Spirit Guide and can carry up to two Rock Ravens, providing an added edge to Fort defense.

Amurites: Field Mage - The Field Mage has a much lower damage limit than most Fort Commanders, but true to its name can promote to available spell promotions - and even Spell Extension or Twincast, if it meets the requirements. Field Mages cannot promote the Drill line, but are instead allowed to promote the Combat line to aid in their spellcasting. Although only starting with Channeling I, level 4 or higher Field Mages can promote to Channeling II once Sorcery is researched.

Archos: Nesting Spider - By far the most unique Fort Commander. The Nesting Spider lacks a ranged attack entirely, but has much higher base strength and additional first strikes. It can also cast Venomous Web, damaging and possibly immobilizing units that stray too close. At level 3, instead of the normal ranged attack boosts, Nesting Spiders gain the ability to summon Baby Spiders to defend the Fort. These spiders are temporary, but gain bonus duration from combat. Should a summoned Baby Spider be lucky enough to grow into a Giant Spider before its duration expires, it will become permanent. Al level 4, the Nesting Spider can promote to Expanded Influence just like a normal Fort Commander. At level 5, the Nesting Spider gains a ranged attack identical to that of the Greater Venenum Spider and its summoned Baby Spiders become Strong. Finally, at level 7, the Nesting Spider gains Twincast. Unlike normal Fort Commanders, the Nesting Spider can never reach Legendary Influence.

Graphical Fort Commander replacements - the following civs have UU Fort Commanders, but do not currently have special abilities associated with them:

Clan of Embers/Barbarians - Orc Warboss

Mazatl/Cualli - Jungle Sentinel

Infernals/Demons - Hell's Lieutenant

New Unique Features

Credit for graphics and inspiration for these goes entirely to Psychic Llamas.

Spoiler :

The Blair of Lacuna - A source of Dimensional mana, only units of level 6 or higher can enter the Blair (it automatically generates a road beneath itself to allow its mana to be connected). Once inside, however, a unit can take advantage of the "out of reality" nature of the Blair to teleport itself up to ten tiles in any direction.

The Tower of Eyes - Technically called the Palus, but more commonly referred to as the Tower of Eyes, it is a source of Mind mana. It also provides a vision range boost and a massive tile defense boost to units inside - a great place to hole up in an emergency.

The former Tower of Eyes wonder is now called the Cathedral of Tali, and provides free Lighthouses instead of free Dungeons.

Additionally, the base unique feature spawn rate has been increased to 60% (up from 30%). To compensate, however, map size now greatly affects unique feature spawn rate, bringing it as low as 15% for duel maps and as high as 80% for huge maps.

Palace-Based Defenses

Most Warrior-class units have lost their city defense bonus (the exceptions are the Archosian Tribesman, which keeps a 15% defense bonus, and the Jotnar Thrall, which is unchanged). However, all Palaces now provide some measure of bonus to city defense, usually 25%. The overall effect is that capital cities remain hard to take down in the early game, help to stop early rushes, but warriors are a relatively poor choice for city defense otherwise.

Some Palaces have unique city defense effects; they are listed in the spoiler:

Spoiler :

The Chislev palace only gives 20% city defense; however, it provides +10% city defense in all other cities.

The Illian palace provides a full 40% city defense; all other Illian cities suffer a -10% defense penalty (shouldn't be able to bring a city's defence below 0).

The Archos palace provides 30% city defense; combined with the defense boost of Tribesmen, this makes the Archos hard to eliminate with an early rush.

The Khazad palace gives +20% defense in all cities (this is actually unchanged from base FF).

The Jotnar palace gives 40% city defense (also unchanged from default).

The Infernal and Mercurian palaces both provide rather hefty city defense bonuses, as well as city defense in all cities.

Worker Tools

Builder civs eat your heart out. Certain resources and technologies will now give worker units access to "tool" promotions. Functionally very similar to weapons for melee units, tools give considerable work rate bonuses if you put the effort into earning them. Most workers, along with the Jotnar hero Egrass the Founder, can use all three types of tools. Gretchins, however, being the pathetic things that they are, can only use the two weaker types of tools.

Spoiler :

Stone Tools: +20 work rate, granted by having access to Stone.

Obsidian Tools: +40 work rate, granted by having access to Obsidian and the Construction technology.

Masterwork Tools: +70 work rate, and very hard to get. Requires a city with a Forge or Master Smith, Enchantment Mana, and the Engineering technology (I can hear the Luchuirp players cheering right now; don't worry, Mud Golems are going to be rebalanced with respect to Tools in a later version ).

Miscellaneous Changes

Spoiler :

Maximum animal escalations reduced to 3.

Most units with a +25% bonus vs. Warriors had it reduced to +10%.

Naval changes: Sea Serpents are weaker but faster; Giant Tortoises can transport up to two units... very... slowly. Naval units can promote to Subdue Animal (and eventually Subdue Beast) to allow capturing of sea creatures.

The Sidar have a new scout, the Trackless. In exchange for being invisible and able to explore rival territory, it loses its bonuses vs animals and even the ability to see invisible animals.

Blowpipes got a balance revision: They lose the poisoned weapons promotion and 1 first strike chance, are strength 6 instead of strength 5, gain +1 poison combat, and cannot make use of weapons (Bronze blowguns? Really?).

Most High Priest-type units gained Medic III, since no unit seems to actually have it at the moment.

New promotion: First Aid. Available to most units at Combat 2, it gives +10% friendly and neutral healing rate. In exchange, March is now back to only giving enemy healing rate.

Orthus now has March and a new promotion call Beserker. Berserker has a 50% chance of applying Haste each turn, giving Orthus a chance of being able to make use of his axe. Berserker is also now a valid mutation.

Lizard Shapers: Once Sanitation is researched, Mazatl workers with Aptitude 2 can promote to Deep Shaper, allowing them to cast a couple spells that allow manual spreading of Jungle. Lizard Shapers can no longer cast Scorch, mostly due to an unthematic exploit discovered by RogueThunder. In exchange, they have a unique spell for removing Swamps.

Fort Conversion: Exploring a Goblin Fort will no longer destroy it; it will instead leave behind an empty Goblin Fort. Empty Goblin Forts can be garrisoned with Fort Commanders, and will naturally upgrade to a regular Fort over time.

Alchemy Labs and their UUs are ~considerably~ less hammer-intensive; Mary Morbus might actually show up every now and then now!

Sheaim palace gives Dimensional mana instead of Chaos mana; they are the Dimensional civ, after all.

New production resource: Stone. Connected via Quarries, and can show up pretty much anywhere. Should make the hammer bonus from Slavery a bit more useful. Marble is now a luxury resource revealed by Masonry.

New luxury resource: Obsidian. Automatically generated by Volcanoes... but not available any other way. If you aren't lucky enough to get some yourself, better find someone who is and take it from them.

Swamps gain +1 food from irrigation, and carry irrigation, but have 1 less base food; they gain an additional +1 food at Feral Bond.

Favorite Wonders: Varn Gosam's is now the Dies Diei, Amelanchier's is the Grand Menagerie, and Deirdra's is the Cathedral of Tali.

Trait changes: Industrious no longer gives +50% Wonder production. Instead it gives +1 hammer on tiles with 3 or more hammers. Defensive will properly give Hardy I to workers again.

Event tweaks: Dedicating a Monument to Sucellus gives +1 happy in addition to +1 health; Dedicating a Monument to Ohgma gives +3 research instead of +2.

Lair tweaks: There is now a Neutral-specific "party of adventurers" lair result. The Good-specific version now gives slightly more XP. Also, the Famous Adventure lair result now gives an impressive amount of XP, because having an adventure worthy of the bards singing about it and still being level 1 doesn't make much sense.

A couple other things to minor too be noted here; a comprehensive changelog is bundled with the mod, but is not formatted to be particularly readable to anyone but me. ^^;

Well, there it is. Hope this strikes the interest of someone out there, although RLD has always been for my personal use first and foremost, so I won't be heartbroken if no one cares.

However, if someone does take an interest, and said someone happens to be decent with graphics, there are a couple things in the mod that are sorely lacking in that department, due to my complete and utter lack of skill in that area. Namely the new "fireball-like" spells - Acid Fog, Animate Weapon, Acid Fog, Icicle Lance, Eye of the Sun, and Giant Wave - all actually look just like Fireballs right now. The Nimbus cloud also uses a Fireball as a stand-in graphic. If anyone could point me in the direction of graphics that could be used for these (although I will probably just end up using a smaller Water Elemental for Giant Wave) I would be most greatfull.

Meanwhile, on with the download.

Installation: RLD is now "half-modular". All of the XML components are fully modular. However, the Python is not. Due to this change, easily updating from the previous version is not really possible; if you have a folder dedicated to the old version, it can safely be deleted.

In either case, you need to create a new copy of your Fall Further 051 Patch B directory, and name it something like Fall Further RLD or whatever strikes your fancy. The "RLD" folder included in the archive (inside the FFRLD folder; I need a better naming scheme...) goes inside the Assets/Modules/NormalModules directory of this new folder; it should be in the same directory as a folder named "BannorChainOfCommand".

The included Python and Art directories should be used to overwrite the respective directories in the new folder; this will overwrite the files cvEventManager.py, cvSpellInterface.py, and cvRandomEventInterface.py. The Art directory contains only new art and doesn't overwrite anything.

Obligatory Disclaimer: This mod has been playtested and confirmed to work at least as far as getting into the game and not throwing up huge Python errors. All the features advertised above should be functional, but I don't guarantee the mod to be 100% bug free. In fact, one of the reasons I am posting it here is in the hope that others will find bugs I have missed. If you have a bug, or other question, comment, balance concern, feature suggestion, or angry hatemail, feel free to post it in this thread. This mod is a work in progress.

 

[MaxAstro]

Changelog for Fall Further RLD AVN 1.3:

-Fixed a typo that was causing Amurites to not get their UUs.
-Fixed missing graphics from the Tower of Eyes and Blair of Lacuna.
-Fixed Fort Commanders assigned to Goblin Forts instantly dying.

Spoiler :

Previous version changes (generally included in the main post above, but note here for curiosity's sake):

Changelog for Fall Further RLD AVN (Arbitrary Version Number) 1.2:

-Now demi-modular: Still requires an install of python, but all XML components are handled modularly.
-Stone no longer crowds out Marble.
-Feast has been restored to its original version (until I think of something better).
-Meteor Swarm will now always summon 3 Meteors; the Meteors may sometimes have an extra turn of duration, however.
-The Volcano event will now provide a new, unique resource: Obsidian, a luxury resource that is connected with Masony.
-New "Worker Tools" system, functioning much like Bronze, Iron, and Mithril weapons.
-Stone Tools give +20 work rate, are available with access to Stone.
-Obsidian Tools give +40 work rate, are available with Construction and access to Obsidian.
-Masterwork Tools give +70 work rate, are available with Engineering, a Master Smith or Forge, and Enchantment Mana.
-All workers and slaves can use all tools, except for Gretchins, which cannot use Masterwork Tools.
-Egrass the Founder can use all tools.
-Added graphical replacements for the Clan of Embers, Barbarian, Infernal, Demon, Mazatl, and Cualli Fort Commanders so they appear to be of the correct race. Will get unique abilities eventually.
-Added unit art style data for all Fort Commanders so they appear to be of the correct civilization.
-Orc Fort Commanders can now be Enlisted by the Clan of Embers after casting their World Spell.
-The Animal civilization can no longer create Fort Commanders.
-Lizardman Shapers can no longer cast Scorch; instead they have a unique spell to remove Swamps.
-Goblin Forts will no longer be removed when explored; instead they will be "cleared out", and stop spawning.
-Fort Commanders can only be assigned to "cleared out" Goblin Forts.
-Once "cleared out", Goblin Forts will passively upgrade to regular Forts.
-Fixed a bug where Flavor Start would move the Blair of Lacuna and leave behind an empty tile that required level 6 or above to enter.
-The "Heroic Adventure" lair result now gives a rather large XP reward in addition to its other benefits.
-The "meet a party of adventurers" lair result now has a Neutral outcome in addition to Good and Evil.

 

[MaxAstro]

Also reserved, just in case.

 

[black_imperator]

like some of the changes, might steal the giant wave idea ^^
I'll try this mod

little comment: i think it's the Bair of Lacuna

 

[Exsequien]

This sounds awesome! Trying right now.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

seems great, and I do remember the old changelog

excellent stuff, hope it gets absorbed alongside with FF+

why does Amelanchier like the Gran Menagerie though? I don't think the AI will ever build it anyway... if there's one that could have it as favourite, it would definitely be keelyn

I'm also not too sure about how useful the blair of lacuna can actually be.

 

[Iceciro]

I may ninja some of this stuff and make it modular - particularly the idea of the Amurite Apprentices for adepts.

I can't believe I never thought of giving them an upgrade-path changing replacement for the Adepts, and that is awesome. Major kudos.
Some of the other stuff is neat too - will DL and have a look!

Also, how are my Order Calabim supposed to go evil without feasting? Do you know how many dungeons I'm gonna have to build now?

 

[WarKirby]

Palace based defenses are a pretty nice idea.
Blair of Lacuna is also good
Alchemy lab cost reduction is something I've been meaning to do
I like the stone resource.
The sidar scout UU is nice, although being invisible and still able to attack is always an overpowered combination. i'd say make them defensiveonly.

These changes notably, I'd like to integrate into FF. The fort commander improvements sound nice too

Medic III for high priests is already in for Patch C, whenever we finish it


I think the Feasting requiring you to be evil is pretty silly, though. Alignment is not supposed to shape your actions, but be shaped by them. Feasting shouldn't require you to be evil. It should make you evil

 

[Iceciro]

Captured/Conqueror'd Vampires should be able to Feast. I know the discussion was already had, but still... otherwise it's just a 10% str and slight heal boost.

And Feasting should MAKE you evil - probabaly more than it does now. How many times do you have to sacrifice population to a unit of Vampires before you're a "real evil" guy, seriously.

On the subject of the non-modular stuff, I'd like to see more done with the Amurite troops learning spells, like you've done in the mod. The version that is in Fall Further was in Fall Flat, mostly as a "can I make it do this thing" test, and got absorbed before I was really happy with it - but it is better than nothing, for sure.

 

[MaxAstro]

why does Amelanchier like the Gran Menagerie though? I don't think the AI will ever build it anyway... if there's one that could have it as favourite, it would definitely be keelyn

I'm also not too sure about how useful the blair of lacuna can actually be.

Amelanchier and Varn Gosam had their favorite wonders changed because they previously shared the Tower of Eyes as a favorite wonder, which no longer exists in its original form. I chose the Grand Menagerie because someone suggested it in another thread, and I couldn't think of anything more appropriate.

As far as the Blair of Lacuna, that was definitely an intentional choice for thematic over useful. As a source of dimensional mana it is at least as useful as say, the Letum Frigus. The teleporting mechanic and having it be a "safe haven" for high level units is entirely intended to represent the Blair's backstory and lore rather than being a compelling gameplay mechanic.

I might reduce the minimum level to 4 to have it be more generally accessible, but I also like that the minimum level to enter it is the same as the minimum level to become a Vampire.

I may ninja some of this stuff and make it modular - particularly the idea of the Amurite Apprentices for adepts.

I can't believe I never thought of giving them an upgrade-path changing replacement for the Adepts, and that is awesome. Major kudos.
Some of the other stuff is neat too - will DL and have a look!

Also, how are my Order Calabim supposed to go evil without feasting? Do you know how many dungeons I'm gonna have to build now?

Thanks for the compliment. The upgrade path thing for the Apprentices was almost an accident - I originally just wanted to make them able to upgrade into Spellswords, and realized I'd need a UU to do that. When I started thinking of what to do to make them justify being a full UU, that was when I struck on idea of letting them "change careers", as it were.

Also, Feasting still makes you more evil. I mainly have it requiring you to be evil because it seems like such an evil act that the only reasonable alignment change to associate with it would be to have you become instantly evil the first time you use it. It is also not something I would see the Order of Junil ever condoning; if the Calabim are to redeem themselves by becoming good, their hedonistic excesses will have to be controlled. Perhaps that is a bit too philosophical of me, but it's also my justification for allowing non-Calabim vampires to Feast. I might make it simply require non-Good, and increase the negative alignment modifier.

Palace based defenses are a pretty nice idea.
Blair of Lacuna is also good
Alchemy lab cost reduction is something I've been meaning to do
I like the stone resource.
The sidar scout UU is nice, although being invisible and still able to attack is always an overpowered combination. i'd say make them defensiveonly.

These changes notably, I'd like to integrate into FF. The fort commander improvements sound nice too

Medic III for high priests is already in for Patch C, whenever we finish it

I have considered making Trackless be defensive only, but being strength 2 the only thing they are likely to take out is Workers, and rarely even that with Hardy I or II. The Archos' Giant Spiders are much higher on my "potentially overpowered" list. Also, defensive-only scouts means no way to subdue animals pre-hunters; admittedly without the bonus vs animals it's a pretty slim chance anyway.

Several of my changes are things I know are going to be in Patch C; I just got tired of waiting for Patch C.

 

[Iceciro]

Could you give them the same Hide ability that the higher level Sidar units have, so that they could attack but be visible afterwords?

 

[xienwolf]

You could use python prereqs for feast to make it require a certain crime rate to be used as non-evil, and lower Crime rate as well as/instead of population

 

[MaxAstro]

Could you give them the same Hide ability that the higher level Sidar units have, so that they could attack but be visible afterwords?

Theoretically, yes, however since that ability is handled via a promotion they would keep it when promoting to higher level units, which is something I am trying to avoid (Horsemen with Hidden sounds like broken on a stick to me).

 

[Iceciro]

Use a duplicate ability that requires that specific unit instead of a promo?

 

[odalrick]

Theoretically, yes, however since that ability is handled via a promotion they would keep it when promoting to higher level units, which is something I am trying to avoid (Horsemen with Hidden sounds like broken on a stick to me).

You could just make a cloned spell that requires Sidar and Scout rather than Stealth.

 

[MaxAstro]

Entirely doable, but I try to avoid making redundant abilities when possible. As I said, I don't really see the ability of Trackless attack as a significant balance issue (certainly not compared to the Archos' civilization-destroying Giant Spiders of doom); it might be a cheap way to take out a Worker or two, but doesn't seem balance-killing.

If anything I'd be more tempted to balance them by making them invisible animal instead of invisible land.

EDIT: Speaking of trying to avoid redundant abilities, it would be really nice if there was a "OR" promotion prereq on spells. That would allow, among other things, there to be only one version of Venomous Web instead of the current three identical copies. Will have to bug Xien about that at some point.

 

[WarKirby]

Also, Feasting still makes you more evil. I mainly have it requiring you to be evil because it seems like such an evil act that the only reasonable alignment change to associate with it would be to have you become instantly evil the first time you use it. It is also not something I would see the Order of Junil ever condoning; if the Calabim are to redeem themselves by becoming good, their hedonistic excesses will have to be controlled. Perhaps that is a bit too philosophical of me, but it's also my justification for allowing non-Calabim vampires to Feast. I might make it simply require non-Good, and increase the negative alignment modifier.

Do evil for the greater good, etc. There are quite a few lore stories about the bannor and elohim slaughtering women and children while razing AV cities. It's a world of moral greys. Kind of the reason Broader alignments exists.

Say demons are coming to destroy a city. Millions will die. Wouldn't the good option be to consume a few thousand instead, to empower one hero to take on the horsemen, so that the city will live, and hundreds of thousands will be saved?

But more to the point. Feasting reduces the population of a city by 1 point. Razing a city reduces the population to zero. Razing a city seems pretty obviously more evil than eating a portion of the city.

I have considered making Trackless be defensive only, but being strength 2 the only thing they are likely to take out is Workers, and rarely even that with Hardy I or II. The Archos' Giant Spiders are much higher on my "potentially overpowered" list. Also, defensive-only scouts means no way to subdue animals pre-hunters; admittedly without the bonus vs animals it's a pretty slim chance anyway.

There are two kinds of invisibility. "Hidden Animals", and "Stealth".
Hidden animals can be seen by any recon unit. Stealth units are only revealed by revelation/perfect sight/hawks/floating eyes.

Giant spiders use the former. And it sounds like you've used the latter for these sidar scouts.

 

[WarKirby]

EDIT: Speaking of trying to avoid redundant abilities, it would be really nice if there was a "OR" promotion prereq on spells. That would allow, among other things, there to be only one version of Venomous Web instead of the current three identical copies. Will have to bug Xien about that at some point.

Use python.

if unit has promotiona
elif unit has promotionB

etc.

I'm having to use it for the module I'm working on, amongst other things because there's no prereqNOTpromotion

 

[MagisterCultuum]

There are quite a few lore stories about the bannor and elohim slaughtering women and children while razing AV cities.

Bannor yes, but I don't know of anything canonical (Blank Banner Elohim don't count) showing the Elohim acting this way.

I'm pretty sure Einion would not stand for such things, although Ethne might continue on despite her reservations..

 

[MaxAstro]

As I said, I considered changing Trackless to invisible_animal, and may still if I see a significant balance issue.

However, I've wiped out two civs by turn 75 on Monarch with nothing but two Giant Spiders and a Scout. Didn't even declare war until their capitals were empty.

Trackless, on the other hand, are only strength 2, don't particularly get much more deadly from promotions, are useless against animal units and so have no good way to get XP compared to normal scouts, and require you to declare war before you attack with them. Yes, they are damn hard to detect, but they don't accomplish a whole lot beyond scouting the map.

On the subject of feasting: Razing a city is an act of war. Feasting, on the other hand, is something you do to your own people. To use a modern-day example, take the number of people killed in the Iraq war (roughly 100,000, according to Google) and imagine you were told that many people were going to be rounded up from the population of New York City and slaughtered as part of an experiment to create a military super-soldier. Guess which one is going to get a worse public reaction?

Actually, that gives me an idea - Feasting should perhaps cause rioting in Good-aligned cities, rather than just unhappiness. Or at least, the unhappiness penalty should be much worse for Good-aligned civs. Basically the idea is your people are not used to being treated like cattle, and they do not approve of it.

I can see the argument that alignment should not block you from Feasting. However, I do feel it should effect how Feasting affects your cities.

On using Python for multiple promotion requirements: That approach works, but has a drawback in how it functions with Display if Disabled. If you have to use Python to cover the promotion requirements and Display if Disabled is enabled, the spell will show up for basically every unit.