Mod to deplete resources?

[Dearmad]

Looking for a simple mod that allows resources to randomly (or otherwise) deplete... anyone seen such a thing yet?

 

[TheLopez]

I am working on such a mod right now Deramad

It is called the Dynamic Resources Mod

 

[Dearmad]

Hm. Good. Are you resorting to Python use? And is there a script already in place in the game I can mod or are you having to make one up from scratch completely.

I just want a simple one where each turn there's a *small* chance of them disappearing and/or moving. One in which I could adjust the odds.

 

[TheLopez]

Hm. Good. Are you resorting to Python use? And is there a script already in place in the game I can mod or are you having to make one up from scratch completely.

I just want a simple one where each turn there's a *small* chance of them disappearing and/or moving. One in which I could adjust the odds.

I am making one up from scratch. Yes, it will be fully configurable.

 

[Dearmad]

Let me know when this is done. I'd LOVE to get ahold of it and add it into my game.

The more basic/barebones but functional it is, the better, IMHO.

 

[Padmewan]

This sounds promising, TheLopez. It's something I've mentioned several times in passing in terms of revamping Civ's economic model. Will you posting a thread about this mod and taking input?

 

[TheLopez]

This sounds promising, TheLopez. It's something I've mentioned several times in passing in terms of revamping Civ's economic model. Will you posting a thread about this mod and taking input?

Absolutely, I just haven't had the time to do it just yet... but expect it in the next few days.

 

[Agent 009]

Will it be configurable in such a way that will allow you to set resources to have a supply. Like for instance, each iron source makes 10 units per turn, coal make 5 per turn, and uranium make 1 per turn... or something along those lines. Your units would of course use a particular amount of a resource and if you don't have enough you can't build that unit.

This is something I have been wanting for quite some time. Unfortunately, my programming skills are limited.

If this is what you are working on then I'll certainly be looking forward to it.

 

[Tholish]

Maybe you could make the probability of depletion of a resource dependent on some abstract factor which could easily be reassociated with a variety of different things via XML?

 

[Padmewan]

Will it be configurable in such a way that will allow you to set resources to have a supply. Like for instance, each iron source makes 10 units per turn, coal make 5 per turn, and uranium make 1 per turn... or something along those lines. Your units would of course use a particular amount of a resource and if you don't have enough you can't build that unit.

We're discussing variations of this in the "Calling all Economists" thread.

One of the more important features of a bonus depletion mod would be transparency to the user: Some indication that "the mine is running out" is helpful, or else it feels arbitrary (like in Civ3, when bonuses would magically disappear and then reappear, sometimes in your own civ). Instead, the "disappearance" or "appearance" of a bonus should be a known factor: each mine has a set number before it runs out; new technology makes previously uneconomical sources suddenly viable (like Alberta's oil sands).

 

[TheLopez]

We're discussing variations of this in the "Calling all Economists" thread.

One of the more important features of a bonus depletion mod would be transparency to the user: Some indication that "the mine is running out" is helpful, or else it feels arbitrary (like in Civ3, when bonuses would magically disappear and then reappear, sometimes in your own civ). Instead, the "disappearance" or "appearance" of a bonus should be a known factor: each mine has a set number before it runs out; new technology makes previously uneconomical sources suddenly viable (like Alberta's oil sands).

Yep, that's exactly what I am planning. On top of this I am planning to maybe add a couple of new resources and buildings that would make it so you can only get certain resources if you have access to the root resource to a city plus the appropriate building ala RRT1-3. So for instance if you want beer for your tavern you would need to have access to hops, barley plus a brewery in your city.

Another aspect of the Dynamic Resources Mod would be the concept of migrating animal resources. So for instance, the whales resource would not be in the same plot for the whole game, they might migrate 10-15 squares away.

 

[Dearmad]

Meh. I was just hoping for a simple mod that depletes it randomly so I can investigate how to do it myself- I don't want a mod that kills the AI.

Wish I could figure out how to do this one myself...

 

[TheLopez]

Meh. I was just hoping for a simple mod that depletes it randomly so I can investigate how to do it myself- I don't want a mod that kills the AI.

Wish I could figure out how to do this one myself...

How would it kill the AI?

 

[Dearmad]

The AI would have to know which building to build when to be efficient, it would also have to ensure it hooks up migratig resources or understands that its one source of migrating resources is fargile and may change at any moment, so prepare for that future (somethign it would not do).

Little things that add up to weakening the AI even more.

 

[TheLopez]

Wouldn't that affect players too?

 

[Padmewan]

Yep, that's exactly what I am planning. On top of this I am planning to maybe add a couple of new resources and buildings that would make it so you can only get certain resources if you have access to the root resource to a city plus the appropriate building ala RRT1-3. So for instance if you want beer for your tavern you would need to have access to hops, barley plus a brewery in your city.

One thing that has been missing with buildings is a more complete implementation of how buildings "use" resources. For example, the Coal Plant requires coal to work... I think the data model should have been generalized so that a building requires a bonus to function. Instead, we have all these fiddly things with sometimes bonuses provide a health bonus, sometimes a happiness bonus... way too complicated in the XML and data model.

Once that is working, the second step that I think you are identifying is that the building actually uses the resource (it takes one away from the pool). I've been thinking about this, and one problem is deciding which building should get the resource if you have a limited quantity. For example: You have 3 coal plants but only 2 coal. Programmatically, I imagine that the easiest way to do this is just in the order of the city iterator, but to the player that will seem arbitrary. (No helping that, I suppose, unless each building also had an "on/off" switch).

A third possible step is that any build option (building or unit) also pull X bonuses out of the pool when put in the queue. The problem then is what happens if they come off the queue?

Anyway, i'm looking forward to what you pull out of the hat and would be happy to test and debug to the best of my ability

 

[Dearmad]

Wouldn't that affect players too?

Hardly. We know the rules better; we can play to them. The AI (as is) won't get this. Unless you were thinking of modding the AI too.

 

[Civmansam]

Another aspect of the Dynamic Resources Mod would be the concept of migrating animal resources. So for instance, the whales resource would not be in the same plot for the whole game, they might migrate 10-15 squares away.

But if you create a pasture around horses or cows, shouldn't they stay where they are?

 

[TheLopez]

But if you create a pasture around horses or cows, shouldn't they stay where they are?

Yep, exactly. But there are other resources like deer, whales, fish, etc. that would still move around, right?

 

[Jeckel]

Yep, exactly. But there are other resources like deer, whales, fish, etc. that would still move around, right?

I like this idea, especially for the whales, but it brings up several issues.

First lets start with deer. Deer don't really migrate, they follow a set path each day between feeding grounds, bedding areas, and such. This routine is basicly the same every day, same feeding sights at the same time, same crossings at the same times. On a civ map this, at most, would be confined to a nine square block, but really wouldn't be more then 2-4 squares of area.

As for beavers, I've heard tell of them traveling several miles to get the proper timber, but they don't really migrate around at all being centered on their lodge.

Fish are a complicated issue, in that many species migrate long distances, but there are also just as many that live in the same square their entire lives.

It would seem to me that there needs to be several movement templates.
1) When resourse created, the initial square and X adjacent squares are chosen and the resourse moves either randomly(ie beavers) around them or in a set path from Tile A => Tile b => Tile C => Tile A => repeat(ie deer).

2) When resourse is created, initial tile is stored as birth tile. The resourse then spends some amount of time in that tile(maybe moving between that tile and adjacent ones) before migrating to another area of the map. This would be the basic idea of whales and could also be used with fish.

3) Pertaining to fish I think the above template should be used on some fish resourses, but inaddition to that, other fish resourses should not move at all, and otheres should move around in there birth tile and adjacent tiles.