[mod] Warlords: Total Realism 2.3a

Guys,

A feedback we really need is to know when you change era. What are the turns/years of your era change ?
This will help us to adjust the tech tree.

Hian the Frog.
 
Vitez

I'm sure because I am an old man and have been playing turn-based games since original Atari, commodore-64, etc. Have you? I know the MAF is not directly related to your mod, however your mod has a lot more MAF errors than any other mods I have played. I am not going to sit here and argue semantics with you about what you or I said, I was just wondering if the team members thought the amount of MAF problems were bearable or not, refer to my first post. Again, you are over-reacting to my post, you need to calm down and take some criticism. There are other concerned about the MAF errors in this game, and you shouldn't tell people who come on here asking about them they maybe should play RTS games, it is rude and not funny as you claim. Smiley faces don't make something funny. The original team members didn't react to my post this way, only you, which seem to be a fairly new member to the TR team. I have enjoyed this mod in the past, but again I say this mod is unplayable for me with the MAF errors. I will try to play again once BTS version is released. I am sure you will respond with some more smart-ass remarks, but I will end it here as I have no intention to argue with you anymore.
 
Vitez

I'm sure because I am an old man and have been playing turn-based games since original Atari, commodore-64, etc. Have you? I know the MAF is not directly related to your mod, however your mod has a lot more MAF errors than any other mods I have played. I am not going to sit here and argue semantics with you about what you or I said, I was just wondering if the team members thought the amount of MAF problems were bearable or not, refer to my first post. Again, you are over-reacting to my post, you need to calm down and take some criticism. There are other concerned about the MAF errors in this game, and you shouldn't tell people who come on here asking about them they maybe should play RTS games, it is rude and not funny as you claim. Smiley faces don't make something funny. The original team members didn't react to my post this way, only you, which seem to be a fairly new member to the TR team. I have enjoyed this mod in the past, but again I say this mod is unplayable for me with the MAF errors. I will try to play again once BTS version is released. I am sure you will respond with some more smart-ass remarks, but I will end it here as I have no intention to argue with you anymore.

Hi man,

I'm also old enough to have play on such a computer. What a progress from that time to now, isn't it ? :lol:

About the MAFs. I agree they are very annoying and something that can make some players unhappy - like you it seems. We tried to avoid as more as possible to add mod components that make the mod both slower, prone to MAFs,.... Saying the mod is unplayable is a bit too much IMO, but it's your opinion and we must respect it.
BtS will - i hope - help us to solve this problem. But i'm not absolutly sure that the problem about MAFs comes only from Warlords. I deeply think that it is also linked to windows and its way to use the memory. And in that case, there is nothing we can do. In fact, it seems that the whole system (warlords and windows) react badly with huge mods. :cry:
Vitez is old and mature enough to defend his point of view. I have just to say that some posts where something too aggressive -unlike yours - about some problems we can't really correct. His reaction was probably inadapted but he thinks like most of us in the Team: we know the problem, but we can't solved it as we really hope. MAFs are a plague that come from the hard code of Warlords and windows memory system....

Hian the Frog.
 
Vitez

I'm sure because I am an old man and have been playing turn-based games since original Atari, commodore-64, etc. Have you?

Yes, I have. That's why you should be more careful when writing such opinions. Well maybe the only difference is that I think I'm not old... yet ;) .

Furthermore - MAFs make me angry and I'm annoyed same as you, but I did not react to them in a way that you did. I've just reported it on our forum, got the explanation and now passing explanation to others as well... but some just don't buy it ;) .
 
About the MAF, my experience is that if you go into the world builder and change things while playing you increase the chances of the MAF severely. At least that is my experience.
I used to play on the world map, go into the world builder to make sure the computer AI built cities on their intended spots, if not I simply moved them to the right place and created a defensive unit or two.
This created a very balance world for the first third of a game at least, but it did increase the MAF really seriously.
While now, playing without going into the world builder I have had maybe two MAF while I before had twenty.
I really have no clue if this is luck un my part or if there is anything to this. I’m still playing on the world map, though I never open the world builder anymore.

Also, whenever I enter into the late classical age and forward I seem to get a MAF whenever I try to save myself, so now I have to quit the game after an auto save. The game auto save once every five or so turns I think.
 
Opened borders are intentional. Think when was the 1st time Spanish people visited Chaina ? In BC after dicovering writing, or once tribes/kingdoms on their way have agreed not to attack their explorers ?

Architecture comes quete early in game. Its the player (you) that chooses to get it late, and you have to pay for it. My tech route is usually fishing, Toolmaking, woodworking, metal lore, stonecutting, sailing, agriculture and than going for architecture, and i never find my self low on gold both on World Map and custom maps. As for having 10-12 cities in early games you complaina bout having no cash. Persian empire and Roman were only onces that could get this big and maintain its glory for a time. Other "epire" usually collapsed before they grew. Yours is one of them.

Wargromer and AI. We allways had problems with AI. They were too weak, too stupid, than making too big stacks of units (83 on one square to attack and 44 in capitol garrison), where 3 or 4 units of that stack attacked, rest "prtected" attackers... Also large number of units made game unplatyable (long waiting time betwean turns, early MAFs). This is best we figured out.
And a thing to you. Wargromer =/= conqueror. Wargromer rather pillages and razes things and get $ for that, rather than spreads its borders.

Clicking end turn - that is big question what to do. I was asking Team to lower cost of early buildings and make their bonuses lower, but its still end turn till you finish them. On worldmap with very crowded europe there is no space to expore so you cant do it. what to do with it ? Leave it as it is, as we havent thought of anything better, nor anyone enlighted us.

Slow religion spread is intentional. Look at dates.
Zoroastrianism was founded... who knows. Cyrus has made the Persian empire arround 600 or 500 bc (cant remember the centuary doh) and its "state religion" was Zoroastrian (free religion actually). And Zoroastrianism did not existed outside Persia, sure some merchants or other faithfull left Persia looking for "better" life and were spreading it along way, but it wasnt successfull. Thats why Zoro has slow spread rate, low missionary number and high cost of them.
Judaism for 2. It was spread in Palistina, Lebanon, Assyria, Antioch and some other mid-east regions. Egypt didnt want to accept it, but it was existant there, but not by spread or missionaries, but by slaves that were Jewls.
Hinduism also hasnt left India much, or atleast in foreign lands it werent influencive enough to be considered as state religion. (in TR it spread is slow, but barable)
Buddism is 1st religion that has spread fast. Why ? Maybe becouse it was easy to accept. It had no god, so there is not "pray or die infidel". But the fact is that it has spread in India, China, Korea, Japan and even to mid-east, but that land allready belonged to Zoroastrianism and Judaism.
Christianity spreads more by Missionaries, than by it self (Jesus Christ, if not him, Christianity not only would not exist, but would not leave Jerusolem, Poland adopted Christiany thanks to Czech missionaries)
And for the end, werent you annoyed that in 1000bc half of the World was Hindu ? and once in 100bc Christianity was founded, Europe, Asia and half of Africa (other half of Africa was barbarian) was hindu ?

Don't be so disappointed with me. I'm trying to give you the opinion of an experienced player that love your mod, it's the only one I play in last year, giving an idea of what a player wants to have and to do in a turn based strategy game. Of course many could have different opinions as mine, but I guess that someone will agree with me about the problems I met during the game. I know that the tech route you choose can allow you to build an economical strong empire before to try further expansion, but I want to point out that with this system and with this tech tree there are not different strategies possibile and in my opinion this is the limit of this version of the mod. For example, in previous version you could be a warmonger building as many cottages as possible as soon as possible while going for conquest, here is not enough. I go to Architecture as I discover BW, but building cottages, lighthouses and potter houses in all of my cities is not enough to avoid to set research to 0 ans still lose money, and in my opinion this makes the game umplayable if you look for a different strategy than stay in your homeland until middle times and than go to war, as it happened in Vanilla version, that I found so boring to play. What I'm saying is that this version lacks of the characteristics that made this mod the best for Civ4. I thanks a lot for your work, I know that it's a gift you gave to me, my intention is only to suggest you some changes to improve, not a pure criticism. Bye!
 
Hi Snake Pliskeen,

We already know about this problem and we thank you a lot as you have confirmed it.

In fact, the main problem was that the mod was released without the full tests we were looking for. So, there are still some problems. They will be solved asap, belive me. I can't play by myself the mod i was looking for. ;) The mod is running badly as soon as you have reach early middle age: low research, low gold,....

As i have said, the new civic system wasn't implemented. I really think that this one will solve most of our actual problems.

Hian the frog.
 
Hi man

I am new (n00b) here but I have played Civ Games since 1985 when it was released for Amiga 500 inside a single floppy... Nice times :)

I love this mod I always play and Vanilla or Warlords are a couple of steps under the quality of "your creature". More units, more deep, more resources and a very nice gameplay.

Now I would like to help you in the difficult task of balancing TR2.2 reporting when i change era in single game and other things I think could help you more.

Good job guys (and sorry for my poor english) .
 
Playing as Roma, I couldnt upgrade polibian leg. to imperial leg. anymore. Is it intentional? I hope not because it doesnt look logical to me. Polibians are shortswordmen, imperials are swordmen, why I cant upgrade them then? When I get IW I will never build polibian anymore as imperial is available, so better to give the possibility to upgrade them and let polibian go obsolete. What do you think?
Last, I would expected that units as informant could get some experience after successful spying missions, would it be changed in the next patch? Maybe with proprer promotion that gives more chances to accomply future mission, what do you think? Too complicated maybe? Thank you!
 
shortswordsmans upgrade to levy and irregulars. They are cheap equipped and nearelly drafted into army rather than trained as swordsmans do.
If you lack production or resources, shortswordsmans are your army.
 
shortswordsmans upgrade to levy and irregulars. They are cheap equipped and nearelly drafted into army rather than trained as swordsmans do.
If you lack production or resources, shortswordsmans are your army.

That's true, but Snake Pliskeen did indeed point out an inconsistency we have. Probably we should allow a more sophisticated upgrade path.
 
Playing as Roma, I couldnt upgrade polibian leg. to imperial leg. anymore. Is it intentional? I hope not because it doesnt look logical to me. Polibians are shortswordmen, imperials are swordmen, why I cant upgrade them then? When I get IW I will never build polibian anymore as imperial is available, so better to give the possibility to upgrade them and let polibian go obsolete. What do you think?

I agree with this to some extent. It was nice to have your experienced polybian legionaries become imperial and continue fighting - peasant servitude is quite a way off and these experienced units now just lie dormant while the imperial and praetorian gaurds rule the world. but i do like the idea of cheap irregulars which complement the main force nicely!

I think a more spohisticated upgrade path suggested by Walter would be the answer!
 
Playing as Roma, I couldnt upgrade polibian leg. to imperial leg. anymore. Is it intentional? I hope not because it doesnt look logical to me. Polibians are shortswordmen, imperials are swordmen, why I cant upgrade them then? When I get IW I will never build polibian anymore as imperial is available, so better to give the possibility to upgrade them and let polibian go obsolete. What do you think?
Last, I would expected that units as informant could get some experience after successful spying missions, would it be changed in the next patch? Maybe with proprer promotion that gives more chances to accomply future mission, what do you think? Too complicated maybe? Thank you!

About units: i can be easily changed. It's not so complicated and will need at best one hour of work. More, your suggestion makes us thinking that these units can receive a new role. Wait a bit, we are discussing about this....

Experience of Spy units: can be added too. To not lie, it's not a priority. We will discuss about this too. It's not very complicated to add too. It just need to be well thought and balanced.

Hian the Frog.
 
Hi man

I am new (n00b) here but I have played Civ Games since 1985 when it was released for Amiga 500 inside a single floppy... Nice times :)

I love this mod I always play and Vanilla or Warlords are a couple of steps under the quality of "your creature". More units, more deep, more resources and a very nice gameplay.

Now I would like to help you in the difficult task of balancing TR2.2 reporting when i change era in single game and other things I think could help you more.

Good job guys (and sorry for my poor english) .

Welcome to TR World ! ;)

All help are welcome too.
What i'm looking for at that time is the years/turns you are changing eras. Note that i need the type of maps, number of civs and difficulty level.

Enjoy the mod. :)

Hian the Frog.
 
While trying to find more information and understanding on this problem, which there is quite a bit on these forums - ranging from the fault being with large mods, Firaxis coding etc etc... The ViSa mod reckon they have a workaround for the MAF problem, whether this only works with ther mod or if it could be implemented into yours I do not know, but maybe worth looking into?

On a rather late note disabling the autosave doesn't work it just MAFFED out on the next general save I made:mad:
 
Personal considerations about TR

I like the idea that I need an appropriate building to produce Axemen when I have acces to Bronze. I do not think this stop early wars because it is possible to attack with Shortswordmen. Generally speaking I apreciate I can concentrate myself on other thechs knowing that my archers are strong enough to resist an attack of Shirtswordmen and I have not to race to learn asap Bronze Working.

Fixing the game

I would apreciate if it is possible to hide promos on units indicating only the best one of that type. So if I have an unit with 5 stars (I do not remember the name ot that promo) it would be nice if TR shows only the best, hiding from 1 to 4 stars promos. I see this in an other mod (ffh? I do not remembre).

Furthermore I please you to reduce the pandemic change because I think it is high: I always have citizens dying in my cities even if they have all appropriate buildings. I suggest to implement a special and permanent structure like an infirmary to cure sick citizens reducing pandemic possibility to spread in all my empire.

Assassin is now a very useless unit because he is only able to sabotate production. I think this is intentional because the old assassin generates errors.

MAF

I made 120 turns using a lot the editor, saving each turn and going often to desktop in an Huge Pangea map with 9 opponents and I have not had it. I am a very lucky man?
 
Personal considerations about TR

I like the idea that I need an appropriate building to produce Axemen when I have acces to Bronze. I do not think this stop early wars because it is possible to attack with Shortswordmen. Generally speaking I apreciate I can concentrate myself on other thechs knowing that my archers are strong enough to resist an attack of Shirtswordmen and I have not to race to learn asap Bronze Working.

Fixing the game

I would apreciate if it is possible to hide promos on units indicating only the best one of that type. So if I have an unit with 5 stars (I do not remember the name ot that promo) it would be nice if TR shows only the best, hiding from 1 to 4 stars promos. I see this in an other mod (ffh? I do not remembre).

Furthermore I please you to reduce the pandemic change because I think it is high: I always have citizens dying in my cities even if they have all appropriate buildings. I suggest to implement a special and permanent structure like an infirmary to cure sick citizens reducing pandemic possibility to spread in all my empire.

Assassin is now a very useless unit because he is only able to sabotate production. I think this is intentional because the old assassin generates errors.

MAF

I made 120 turns using a lot the editor, saving each turn and going often to desktop in an Huge Pangea map with 9 opponents and I have not had it. I am a very lucky man?

I totally agree with you for what concern pandemia. In my games, after 3000 years, my capital cant grow over 5-6 units of pop even with all facilities built and lot of food resources, because too often stroke by pandemia with citizen losses. In this case a strange situation arises: all lands worked, cottages built, but not enough pop to work and so no money for troops and further expansion.
I dont agree with you for what concern BW because shortswordmen are available only with BW :-) I've never used Axemen to attack cities. I think it would be better to have the possibility to research BW without Pottery for example or Wheel or both, it would better :-) I say that because until BW a player has nothing to do than click end of turn or little more.
Just a question, what does it means MAF you are talking about ?, I cant remember.
 
MAF is the acronym, if I am not mistaken, of "Memory allocation failure".
A "little" problem with your ram and you virtual memory of windows that crashs your game without the chance to save anything.
It's a original problem of CIV, but it occours more often in mods, expecially in very heavy and powerful mod as TTR :rolleyes:
 
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