Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Houman, Dec 24, 2006.
Excellent point! If it weren't for the mods...I'd have shelved Civ eons ago!
Just out of curiosity ("how many things from TR mods did Firaxis take in BtS" ).
Have you guys thought of enabling Vassel States earlier? The Romans did make puppets out of Spain, Gaul, Egypt, Greece and Palestine.
There really is a difference between surrendering and becoming a vassal.
I personally do not use the vassel option.By the time they offer me that,I have them under control,and I just take them out
I really do agree on this. During the early game up until the Middle Ages, having more than a handful of cities is expensive enough in this mod. If you could vassalize your neighbours through aggressive wars (like the Romans and many others did) you could get access to more strategy resources but will not have to pay too much in maintenance for it.
I could also see this as a way to keep some civilizations living a bit longer. If you play Rome, you could forge a great empire during the Classical Age, as it is right now a great Roman empire is almost impossible in the Classical Age if you don't care about your research crawling along at a very slow pace.
With BTS it could get even more interesting during the Classical Age, where after you conquered or settled some areas you could release some cities into small Vassal states to reduce your maintenance and increase your research output but still controlling large areas.
After some time, these small Vassals would develop and eventually try to break free from your rule.
A revolt system would also be very nice as a development for Total Realism with the BTS. I really hope that you could use the event system to force a player to release a city or have it revolt and create their own civilization or something in those lines. Revolts should not be too common as long as you treat your cities well.
Isn't that what happened to Rome IRL? Overexpansion -> slower research and economic collapse -> Lose? A player can do just the same.
Vassalage coming relatively late is specifically aimed at that - until Medieval age, there's a limit on your expansion. If you look at the World Map, even the greatest pre-medieval conquest, Alexander's, is, in Civ terms, no more than 7-8 cities. And even that "Empire" didn't outlive its creator.
I still go for "Fortress Europe" with Rome, no biggie. You have to focus on "key cities" versus having many cities. For example, Rome, Berlin, France, and Madrid. Grow your economy and culture, and later, fill in the voids if you wish. Trying to fill every gap with a city is a bad habbit that I still struggle with, but if you can manage it, you really do capture more territory more quickly this way.
My two pents.
(Edit to add that you do need to beat Germany to that grassland hill to the NE of Rome, near the alps, with the horse and cow and clams and marble. So, technically, you'll have Rome, Antium, and possibly Cumae to the NW, also on the grassland hills near the alps, just to secure your borders and provide enough research to get to Iron Working ASAP. This means, that you'll have 6 cities to start your fortress Europe, once you take out France, Germany and Spain. Should still be able to get 60% research rate and with open borders to Egypt or someone not immediately bordering your empire, you should be ok until your economy recovers, then do another burst of settlers to fill in gaps and then open your borders to more neighbors, solidify, then go after Greece and/or Russia, then hed south, etc...I've done it, it worksed for me on Prince and Monarch settings.)
True... I essentially agree with that too... though...
In the game, to control all of the roman imperial area that would in my opinion cost too much in maintenance. I think that by 1 AD Rome would have controlled approximately 15-20 cities or so in the game. I really think that is impossible (or nearly so anyway) in the middle of the classical age.
And if you did so you would also have to destroy too many civilizations that is important to have later on. By using the vassalage system, the client states would brake free when they grow stronger.
If this is wise from a game balance perspective I'm not really sure of, but I think it would open up possibilities for aggressive early civilizations to be great without swallowing large part of the map as a permanent area of occupation.
Sure, that is one way to go... though I like to have the cities in the respective places where the modmakers intended to have them. I simply like it that way.
I even go so far most of the time to enter into the world builder to make sure every city is placed where I like to have them on the appropriate time and by the right civilization. Makes for a good and balanced world during the ancient and classical period. But then I'm just weird anyway... ;-)
To each his own. I was just pointing out how I've been able to build the Roman empire.
However, I see a valid consideration for wanting an earlier vassalization capability. But, I also hold hope in the back of my mind that once this mod is converted for BtS that some of this may go away (revolutions...break-aways...colonies, etc...)
What we would need would be an option to customize your game for realistic revolts and break-away civs, etc...
Regarding Vassal states... a nice feature would be that all cities captured during the current war would revert back to the vassal state if you choose force them in to vassalage in peace negotiations.
That way a small civilization would not be able to conquer a large civilization in one go through making them a vassal, but need to slowly capture it through several wars or risk having a large vassal that will break free as soon as they regain their strength again.
The other option would be to completely destroy them and take all their cities and live with a huge maintenance problem.
Also an AI problem is that AI will always grow their cities into large cities with huge maintenance problems as a result before they build up the infrastructure in their cities to cope with increased maintenance. I really hope this is improved in BTS or that the mod makers could improve the AI to handles these things.
If at all possible that is?
Has anyone had problems when playing langames with this mod? I'm getting "Game out of sync" reports often... It usually comes when assassins and/or informants or spyes are concluding missions, or their sabotages are being thwarted... Anyone having same problems???
I whant to report that the map/scenario that comes with this mod. W_TotalRealism_Gold_WorldMap 2.10 is broken. No matter what I do I am game over when the game has just loaded.
Don't install mercenary.
yes, it is known bug - MP is not officially supported
in next version is assassin code totally reworked (new spy missions)
Total Realism, TAM, Fall From Heaven...
You mean random maps work ok ?
no. the mod is unplayable for me. all my unites die when the games starts so I can´t do any thing but accept defeat and then quite to menu.
reinstall mod without mercenary component
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