[mod] Warlords: Total Realism Gold

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Houman, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. Seidrik_The_Gray

    Seidrik_The_Gray Seidrik The Gray

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,160
    BtS is a much larger expansion on Civ4 than Warlords, IMHO. As mentioned, and as most of you know already, espionage is a huge addition and a critical component of BtS. Before I got the expansion, I was thinking that Corporations would also be a huge component, but IMHO, they are not nearly as crucial to the game, nor do they play a huge role in your strategy until late in the game, when you should be about to win or cursing yourself for not winning already.

    1) I have already played several games into the late middle ages, and I actually played one to a diplomatic victory for 70k points on a large Terra Map as the Dutch, where I was a heartbeat away from a domination victory.
    (I'm sure others have accomplished more already.)
    2) What I've seen is that you have to set your espionage to 10% of your economy ASAP and try to stay ahead of the AI in terms of their EPs vs. yours. (EP = Espionage Points, which are what your spy requires to perform various missions, the more complex/valuable the mission, the more costly it is in EP, and if you have more EPs invested in your oponent then they have invested in you, the cost is proportionately less.)
    3) Espionage has far ranging capabilities, from allowing you to share the line of sight of the cities, to knowing what their cities are producing, to causing revolts, influencing the state religion, and other ways of reaking havoc, including stealing technologies!
    4) IMHO, the costs of mounting espionage and counter espionage campaigns far increases the value of the financial trait, let alone the increased maintenance factors already in place for BtS.
    5) The Apostollic pallace...Second to the influence of espionage, I cannot say enough of the impact of spreading your religion in combination with building and running the Apostollic Palace early in the game.
    6) The Tech tree...it has been revamped in a couple key areas, mostly in the transition areas between ancient era and classical and medieval and industrial and industrial and modern. New units also, but nothing too major, except it mittigates some of the human player's advantage in terms of going for some unballancing sling shots, making it harder to get a significant military advantage (not a bad thing, mind you, but I note that your mod also does this, so you'll have to investigate how your designs might possibly become too taxing in terms of realism and ballancing the human player's advantage vs. the AI.)
    7) The AI...it's just better. Yes, it's true that it's easier to whipe out your close neighbors, since the AI doesn't cheat anymore, but the ones that are not immediately nearby grow stronger than ever before. Additionally, the economic impact of hyper-expansion early in the game is significantly negative, a fact that is exaccerbated by the influence of espionage in the game. In short, allot of the balancing concepts that people have been discussing since Civ 4 vanilla came out appear to have finally been implemented.

    In conclusion: I'd say your greatest challenge will be how to incorporate espionage and the new tech tree against the environment of an enhanced AI. If you were to just straight up apply your mod to BtS, I think it would be exceedingly difficult to find the same balance of reality and fun as what is currently in your mod.

    My 2 points of commerce.
     
  2. jpinard

    jpinard Martian

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    Enceladus, Saturn
    Wow. Just getting back into Civ and came across this mod. I'm wondering if you might be up for adding more religions? For example, maybe two new "generic" religions. There should be a Mother Nature" religion, one that we could put all the Native Americans from Norther, Central, and South America. Yes I know that's unfair to clump them all into a single sect, but I hate the fact they have zero religion, and many of them worshipped the Earth herself. This could help be a binding agent between the Indian people when coming across other religions or societies.

    And maybe on more religion that's cross-cultural as well. So we could put other civ's we'd like to have a religion have one a repository. I'm specifically thinking of A religion we could clump Greece, Rome, and Egypt into together. Though Egypt's ancient religion was unqieu unto itself, after the Cleopatra it had much in common with Roman and Greek God worship.

    Would this be possible for you to do?
     
  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,498
    Location:
    London, UK
    Sorry, but most likely not. Older pagan religions are represented by pagan temples in our mod. Adding more religions doesn't add anything either to gameplay or to realism - we have all major world religions well-represented, and on smaller maps, 7 is already too much. And we have to face it, American natives of different areas don't have a common ground religion-wise, other than claiming that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the same because they all worship "an almighty single deity that's somewhere in Heaven".
     
  4. jpinard

    jpinard Martian

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    Enceladus, Saturn
    All good points. I always play on Marathon Huge maps though... so my request was soley for that :)
     
  5. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    13,984
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New England, USA
    Getting closer to the release date with each passing day...
     
  6. Anaztazioch

    Anaztazioch Hit in the head too much

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,181
    Location:
    Kraków, Poland (southern Poland)
    @ Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sad to tell you this, but thanks to my testing its each day farer :D.
     
  7. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    13,984
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New England, USA
    :( So sad..........
     
  8. Anaztazioch

    Anaztazioch Hit in the head too much

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,181
    Location:
    Kraków, Poland (southern Poland)
    We just want to make a finished release, so you guys will not get annoyed by bugs, inballance or simply stupidity.

    Besides: I had a pandemy in New York for 5 turns ! and built pandemic colony in 1 turn and it lowered chance !
     
  9. crismac

    crismac Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Kansas City,Missouri
    As thorough a tester you are.I guess there goes all the fun in finding those things ;)

    Well,I go back to work tomorrow,maybe the update will be ready by Monday :sad:
     
  10. Anaztazioch

    Anaztazioch Hit in the head too much

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,181
    Location:
    Kraków, Poland (southern Poland)
    If by saying "fun" you mean spending 6 seconds delating slaves in Barbarian city of Kongo, than yes ;) like 60+ of them were there (not counting workers ;p )
     
  11. crismac

    crismac Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Kansas City,Missouri
    :wow: Now thats alot of slaves.But on a more serious side,I know I sound like I am trying to rush the release,but I do appreciate the time you put into testing the update before releasing it.There is so many games out there that are released,that you can tell they didn't test much.

    I just wish I had time to help Houman with the task of taking screen shots of all the units.Did the team ever find anyone for that?
     
  12. Anaztazioch

    Anaztazioch Hit in the head too much

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,181
    Location:
    Kraków, Poland (southern Poland)
    Iw as doing that for 2.1 Quite a lot of work with Hian the Frog never getting bored adding new ones...

    So far we recived like 6 new units today, and im pretty sure its not gonna end on that with Him arround ;)

    We dont wat to release not becouse of minor bugs, but becouse some Major addons are not yet complete. And we are trying to make barbarians more a threat than turning Amazon jungle and African Jumgle into farmland cultural civ.

    Besides, as you know we made a new tech tree. To make it more "new expiriance" its best for you to seet it 1st when released (actually Walter gave you asome teasers, but ingame it looks a bit differant).
     
  13. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,210
    Location:
    Germany
    i love playing tr in hotseat with a friend, but later in the game it gets realy slow, like 1min+ between turns.

    whats the bottleneck for performance there?

    im on a 3000 amd 64 and 1gb ram, so i guess it must be the ram?

    do you think (not know, just a guess) that upping to 2gig would noterably decrease that time? id be willing to do so if it had a good chance to help the problem
     
  14. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,498
    Location:
    London, UK
    It helped me (and I play TR only hotseat). But don't expect that to be a panacea, it'll just delay the onset of slo'mo. Expect the same speed in +100/200 turns. The upcoming version will probably be a tad faster too.
     
  15. PLTORR

    PLTORR Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    48
    Do you guys plan to remove the Celts altogether? The capital city of Bibracte beginning in Ireland doesn't sound exactly realistic.
     
  16. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,498
    Location:
    London, UK
    From World Map, yes.
     
  17. Hian the Frog

    Hian the Frog TR Designer and XML

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Location:
    Near Nancy, FRANCE
    Good question, that's a good question.:goodjob:
    We had already discussed about that. Most of the team members agreed on removing the Celts. Personnaly, i disagree. The Celts should be moved to the Hungarian Plains. That was one of their "real" starting "plot". The city name should be changed to Hallstadt.
    It will make Europe overcrowded, but isn't Europe yet overcrowded ? :p

    We will have the same problem if we want to add the new BtS civs. Adding Netherland will be easy, whereas Portugal will be very difficult. Babylon and Khmer can easily be added too. Sumer ? I don't think it will be added, as HRE or Byzance. In our mind, they are not "civ" but "nations of peoples". North American natives, no problem too.

    As you can see, even if we have a BIG bug with our actual release, we already look at what can be done for the future.

    About the (future ? ) release: i will not lie. We always test our release before giving it to you. Anaztazioch and Vitez have unearthed a big one while testing. :cry: When i say a big one, it's really a big one. The game can run but with sooooo great (balance) problems that it's useless to continue a game further than classical/medieval era. We are all on "seek and destroy" mission to erase it. At that time, we already have found three solutions to erase it but we are discussing about the best.
    I hope you understand that it also makes us sad. Most of the new add-ons are already in (building, tech tree, units, music, sounds....) but this f**** bug oblige us to ask you to wait (again). We are working on this release since the last three monthes (on our free time) and it's now very close to be finished (unless a new bug).

    Hian the Frog.
     
  18. lobosan

    lobosan Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    100
    More power to the TR team!
    Get those bugs.
     
  19. Imnot

    Imnot Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Well, at least you got all our "moral" support 8)
     
  20. kalkas

    kalkas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2002
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Does Total Realism work in Warlords ver2.13? I can load the game, but if I click anywhere on the map, for instance choosing some unit, the game crashes.
     

Share This Page