[MODCOMP] Ancient Combat Tweaks

[snuh]

Howdy folks,

Long time lurker, first time poster (and modder!). I'm working on a very simple mod, just tweaking a few melee units for what I think is greater realism and better tactical combat (open ground should not be a death sentence for heavy infantry!) based on my wargaming experience and readings. I'm looking for feedback and a little support for some issues I ran into.


Summary of Changes:

1. Heavy Infantry fight better in open terrain (net +0%) and are penalized for rough terrain (-20% attack, -35% defense)
2. Light Infantry gain a range 1, strength 4 attack
3. Early cavalry strength reduced (PENDING: flanking bonus increase)

Design Rationale & Detailed Info

Spoiler :

Heavy Infantry
Overview: Many armies throughout history did not travel or fight in forests or hills or jungles if they could at all help it. Heavy infantry fought in closely ordered formations that required lots of flat space. Rough terrain created gaps in the lines that could be exploited by the enemy. Heavy infantry positively hated rough terrain - it was the one place where hill tribes and forest dwellers and other ill-trained, half-equipped, illiterate louts could ravage a professional army. Heavy infantry fought best in open terrain. Civ5 currently incentivizes the exact opposite behavior: Roman Legions and Greek Hoplites and other close-order units love to hop from forest to forest for that sweet, sweet +25% combat modifier. Perversely, an open tile is practically a death trap for them, thanks to the -33% modifier. That is completely backwards.

Desired Result: Heavy Infantry should be more effective on open ground than in rough terrain. As a consequence of this, combined arms with non-heavy infantry units should be more important.

Change Details:
* New free promotion: Heavy Infantry
** +33% to Open Defense
** -20% to Rough Attack
** -35% to Rough Defense
** Affects Longswordsman, Pikeman, German Landsknecht, Swordsman, Roman Legion, Spearman, Greek Hoplite, Persian Immortal, Barbarian Spearman, and Barbarian Swordsman units.

Light Infantry
Overview: Because of the vulnerability of heavy infantry in rough terrain, many armies made great use of light infantry. These loose order and lightly equipped units were responsible for scouting, securing flanks, seizing terrain, and harassing enemy units. They would crumble if they came into contact with heavy infantry in open terrain, but could hold their own in rough terrain. While they did have some melee capabilities, light infantry usually relied on ranged weapons - typically javelins, but sometimes slings or bows - with which they would pelt the enemy before falling back behind their own lines. Civ5 doesn't quite have anything like this - since everything in Civ5 likes to fight in rough terrain, it doesn't really need it. But with the modification of heavy infantry, there is now a need for it.

Desired Result: A class of fast-moving units that can harass better units, and fight decently in rough terrain, but otherwise get annihilated. Should work in tandem with heavy infantry units for best results.

Change Details:
* Add Range 1, Strength 4 Attack
* Affects Scout, Warrior, Barbarian Warrior

Cavalry
Overview: Early cavalry had a couple key duties: scout, pillage, sweep the enemy cavalry, overrun broken units, and (if they haven't gotten carried away in pursuit of fleeing troops) wheel around and hit the enemy line in the rear. They often excelled in a combined arms fashion, most notably under Alexander the Great. They were not, however, the blitzkrieging four-legged tanks that they are in Civ5. An unsupported head-on charge against a formed line of heavy infantry would not go well for cavalry, historically speaking. But in Civ5, we instead have the horseman (or Companion Cavalry) rush, a "strategy" which is basically capable of steamrolling almost anything else at that stage of the game. (There is a difference between light and heavy cavalry here as well, but I'm ignoring it for simplicity's sake.)

Desired Result: The main benefits of early cavalry lie in their mobility, not raw power. They are able to pick off vulnerable units and provide flank bonuses. They should work best in a combined arms fashion to grant extra flank benefits.

Change Details:
* Reduce Combat Strength by 25%
* Increase Flank bonus granted to other units by +10%
* Affects Horsemen, Greek Companion Cavalry

Feedback

1. Do these changes actually deliver the desired results? Will things have to be tweaked elsewhere (like, say, unit costs)? Looking them over I think this mod works as-is, but extra opinions would be nice.
2. Is it fun? I'm really cautious about making changes for realism, but in this case I feel pretty good about it because it adds a new level to 1UPT and terrain. As is, the intersection of terrain and combat is pretty bland: rough terrain is almost always good. If a decision always has a perfectly optimal choice, then it's no choice at all. But I'm always interested in feedback.
3. Lack of meaningful Light Infantry in the medieval era. Not sure this a problem because other than scouts and light cav, medieval Europe didn't make much use of light infantry (as far as I know - see below).
4. Did I do the right units? I confess I know relatively little of warfare after ~300AD and outside of Europe or the Near East.

Help!

1. The AI doesn't know what to do with these changes. The unit path AI still seems to prefer to send heavy infantry into forests. And of course the AI doesn't do well with combined arms strategy. Not sure how to proceed.
2. How to script the increased Flank bonus for cavalry? The only reference I can find to this is a record in the Defines table named "BONUS_PER_ADJACENT_FRIEND" and with a value of 15. I don't see a convenient way to create a promotion that says "If Horseman/Companion is adjacent, add an extra 10%". I'm reckoning that's a problem for Lua, something I haven't looked at yet.

Bugs

1. Unit detail panel doesn't appear for Heavy Infantry promoted units. The unit panel in the lower left doesn't appear if you select a unit that has been given the Heavy Infantry promotion unless you select another type of unit first. After that, the panel will display normally until the next turn. Not sure what that's about.
2. Heavy Infantry should be good at defending hills. I plan on redoing the Heavy Infantry Promotion using the UnitPromotions_Features table so the penalties only apply to Forests and Jungles.

 

[primordial stew]

howdy!

Am very interested in what you find! I need to do very similar balancing, but considering only the Classical Era, which should make it simpler.

Perhaps add the "can move after combat" promo to light infantry? This will give the velites an opportunity to do some damage and get out of the way before the legions attack.

-33% for heavy infantry in desert makes sense.

 

[snuh]

I think "can move after combat" would be good for light infantry, and makes them behave more like their historical counterparts. I was definitely thinking of velites and other skirmishers with this mod. My only concern would be making light infantry too good for their cost since all I've done is add advantages to them.

I had the same thought about desert tiles, but decided against it for simplicity's sake. I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[primordial stew]

The counter on light infantry is 2 fold:
1) can't stand in a fixed fight, but cities are fixed targets
2) if maintenance costs are the same as others, the player will have to balance

Consider the Lusitanian campaign. Largely light infantry vs heavy infantry. Very frustrating for the Romans, who won eventually, but it took a long time.

 

[killmeplease]

I like the ideas. This will bring more historical flavour and immersion

 

[MilkmanDan]

since the flank bonus requires getting around the enemy side, should not need to up the horsemen bonus but up the overall bonus. single unit unprotected would be quite vulnerable but multiple unit line hard to get a flank without a fast moving unit.

would be nice if we could reduce the visibility range of enemies based on promotions/terrain, and not just for ancient era either. sub spotted by destroyer 7 tiles away, yet destroyer unseen by the sub? come on. would open a whole new area of stealth/counter stealth throughout the game.