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Modcomp: Historical Favourite Civics

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by lumpthing, Aug 4, 2007.

  1. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    A modcomp for Beyond the Sword: Rhye's and Fall of Civilization

    Updated 4th Aug 07: favourite civics for China-Qin Shi Huang, China-'Wang Kon' and China-Mao changed.


    Compared to vanilla civ, RFC focuses much more on countries rather than their leaders. Therefore I don't think the current batch of favourite civics is best for RFC. Here, I have a created an alternative set of favourites which will encourage the AI to simulate the historical governmental trends of the various civs. Where a civ has multiple leaders, I have assumed each leader to represent an era of that civ's history, rather than the leader itself. For example, Rome-Caesar represents early Rome (i.e. the Republic) while Augustus represents later Rome (the Empire).

    Here's the new favourite choices anyway...

    Suggestions and criticism are welcome.

    France-Lous: hereditary rule
    France-napolean: bureaucracy (because of the overwhelming dominance of Paris and the power of the French state)
    France-deGaulle: universal suffrage
    England-Elizabeth: representation (parliament's long and unbroken power; historically disntinguished from other European powers by its semi-democratic government)
    England-Victoria: free market (became the most powerful opponent of protectionism. Fought the opium wars to force China to open its market)
    England-Churchill: universal suffrage (only European power to remain a democracy through the 20th century)
    Germany-otto: hereditary rule
    Germany-frederick: vassalge
    Germany-bismark: nationhood (has always been famous for skilled military; maybe vassalage instead?)
    Spain: theocracy (spanish inquisition, prowess of conquisidators, stbongly religion-influenced foreign policy)
    Rome-Julius: representation (representing early Rome)
    Rome-Augustus: vassalage (emphasis on military service)
    Rome-Justinian/Byzantium: theocracy (religion a big part of its identity and foreign policy)
    Russia-Peter: serfdom (defining feature of imperial Russia)
    Russia-Catherine: hereditary rule (long absolutism of the tsars)
    Russia-Stalin: state property (USSR)
    Arabia: theocracy (the Caliphate's theocratic rule and military might)
    Persia-Cyrus: vassalage (fielded a massive army)
    Persia-Darius: organized religion (importance of zoroastrianism Very skilled and prolific craftsmen producing many grand cities, buildings and designs, e.g. Darius' religious/administrative centre in Persepolis, Nebuchadnezzar's hanging gardens and Sennacherib's rennowned improvements to Ninevah)
    India-asoka: Caste System (a defining part of its historical culture)
    India-gandhi: universal suffrage (its stable democracy marks it out from other developing countries)
    China-qin shi huang: hereditary rule (the divinely ordained right to rule of the Sons of Heaven)
    China-[Wan Kon leaderhead]: bureaucracy (the emperors ruled through the highly trained and erudite mandarins)
    China-mao: police state (was state property, but then lack of democracy has been a more consistent feature of modern Chinese government than state property)
    Japan: mercantalism (long period of strict isolation)
    Eygpt-hatshepsut: hereditary rule (the power and veneration of the pharoahs)
    Egypt-Ramses: bureaucracy (egypt founded a sophisticated bureaucracy)
    Mali: free market (enormous wealth through trade)
    USA-Washington: representation
    USA-Lincoln: representation
    USA-Roosevelt: universal suffrage
    Aztecs: slavery (many sacrifices, slaves and grand projects)
    Incas: bureaucracy (sophisticated civil service and ability to organise huge numbers. serfdom would also be a good choice.)
    Mongolia-ghengis khan: vassalage (ability to field huge elite army)
    Mongolia-kublay khan: vassalge
    Greece-Pericles: representation (birthplace of democracy; specialists producing extra science points suits the city states)
    Greece-Alexander: vassalage
    Carthage: representation (had a senate)
    Portugal: organized religion (importance of catholicism) )
    Netherlands: free market (the powerful Dutch merchant class opposed restrictions on trade, spearheaded modern capitalism, and built up an empire focussed upon profit.)
    Turkey-mehmed: hereditary rule
    Turkey-suleiman: vassalge
    Maya: hereditary rule (maya society and economy was entirely centred upon the king)
    Vikings: emancipation (denmark was the first country to abolish slavery I believe)
    Khmer: organized religion (many great religious buildings)
    Ethiopia: theocracy

    This results in a much more diverse range of favourites:

    Spoiler :
    GOVERNMENT
    Police State 1
    Hereditary Rule 8
    Representation 5
    Universal Suffrage 4

    LEGAL
    Bureaucracy 4
    Vassalage 7
    Nationhood 1
    Free Speech 0

    LABOUR
    Slavery 1
    Serfdom 1
    Caste System 1
    Emancipation 1

    ECONOMY
    Free market 3
    State Property 1
    Mercantalism 1
    Environmentalism 0

    RELIGION
    Organised Religion 3
    Theocracy 4
    Pacifism 0
    Free Religion 0


    Civs don't keep their favourite civics whatever the cost so I don't think we need to worry about India-Asoka and the Aztecs crippling themselves when emancipation kicks in.

    Instructions

    1) Copy CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
    2) Go to your Rhye's and Fall of Civilization/Assets/XML/Civilizations folder
    3) Paste CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml, replacing the original files
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    Nice idea and nicely thought out changes
     
  3. Edungeon

    Edungeon Flying~

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    You forgot Justinian ( he is a late roman leader ) and a medieval one for China ( that uses the Wang Kon Graphics ).
     
  4. Phallus

    Phallus Freudian Slip

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    Nice list Lumpthing.

    "Byzantium: theocracy (big part of its identity and foreign policy)"

    Remember the preferences are linked to the leader rather than the civ.
     
  5. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    Thanks for pointing that out Edungeon. As Phallus pointed out, Justinian is already in; but I have made that clearer now and edited Wang Kon's favourite civic.

    China's favourite civics now go like this: hereditary rule > bureaucracy > police state
     
  6. Morholt

    Morholt Prince

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    Vikings should have slavery. Slaves were a big part of their trade goods.
     
  7. Whitefire

    Whitefire Emperor

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    I don't understand why I need to add this.
     
  8. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    Yes but the 'Viking' civ always outlasts the Viking age. So I consider them to represent the Scandinavians.

    eh? You don't need to add this. The only reason you would want to add this is if, like me, your dissatisfied with the current favourite civics and would prefer ones that better reflect history. If you prefer the current favourite civics to these suggestions then there is no reason to add it.
     
  9. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    I would make some changes:
    Lincoln: Emancipation, as it fits his historic role, and differentiates himself from Washington. It was a hugely important debate for much of American history.

    Kublai Kahn: Free Religion, the Mongols were quite good when it comes to religious tolerance, and you can't not give Ghengis a military refereance. Once again differentiates the two leaders.

    Cyrus: I would sugest changeing on persian to create a difference (and Zoroastrianism wasn't all that powerful in teh time of either leader, AFAIK). Cyrus would be good for more militaristic civic (the vast expansion of Persia), though I don;t know whihc one. At the same time, you might consider freedom of religion from Cyrus returning the Jews to Israel, or Darius completing the Second Temple.

    Is Catherine listed twice for a reason?
    I believe it is because there should be a different Russian leader (I believe Peter) which I would want to then replace one fav civic.
    Either could work good for Serfdom, not only filling an empty spot, but an important part of Russian history. I would probably give this to Peter.

    One English should be changed to prevent duplication within a civ:
    Elizabeth: Organized religion (seperating the Church of England from Rome, again), Mercantalism (the core of the early British Empire)
    Victoria: Free Market (Adam Smith and laissez-faire during the later period of the British Empire) this is my favourite
     
  10. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    Thanks for your ideas.

    I'll start by saying I think you've missed an important pat of my civic choices: they represent the choices of a whole country for the era which that leader represents in civ. So Stalin's favourite civic represents Russia's government style for most of the 20th Century and all of the 21st Century, not Stalin's government style. I'll also say that it's very easy for anyone to mod their own personal choices, which is all this modcomp is after all.

    Lincoln: Remember, Lincoln's favourite civic does not represent Lincoln's government in my mod, but the government of the USA for the period when RFC is using Lincoln's leader, mostly the 19th Century. Looked at from this perspective, the USA wasn't the first to adopt emancipation. Also, all the civilizations are going to choose emancipation, because of the unhappiness penalty. I'd rather choose a civic which will actually make America more distinctive. I think representation was the most fundamental characteristic of the American government which marked it out from other governments. After all America is the quintessential champion of democracy.

    Kublai Khan: Okay this is a nice idea, I will look into later Mongol history and decide. Although the problem with freedom of religion is that it is a later-game tech, so it cannot represent the tolerant policies of governments in the pre-renaissance age.

    Cryus and Darius: Yep I don't know much about Persian history to be honest, but the effects of organized religion seem to produce the kinds of stuff Persia was good at (i.e. great buildings etc). From what little I know this seems more distinctively Persian than a vast army or great military prowess. But like I say I don't much about it, so maybe one vassalage and one organized religion is best.

    Russia: yeah I agree I will make Peter serfdom (and yes the second Catherine should have been Peter)

    England: again I'm talking about countries, not particular leaders here. Overall I don't think England was any more mercantalist than any other nation, whereas Renaissance onwards England had a very strong parliament, which marked it out from other European powers. I also considered Free Market for Victoria-England, but then I thought the representation element of British government of this period was more long-lasting and stable than the free market policies.
     
  11. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    I think my main flaw is that I am not exactly certain how leaders work in RFC (I have a good idea, but not definite). But AFAIK there is little diffference between leaders, which is why I would like to see different favourite civics for the leaders of the same nation.

    For Persia, under Cyrus it became the largest Empire in the world, a tremendous rise in power, especially through his military campaigns.

    For Lincoln, during the first three quarters of the 19th Century, emancipation was usually the most important political question in the US. Yes, emancipation itself was a small thing that happened, but with the decades and decades of debate over the issue, and it being a significant cause of the civil war, I would think that historically it is important enough. Now, if there was a gameplay reason that would be something completely different.

    Kublai is an excellent point I never thought of.

    For Victoria, I would argue the opposite. Representation was firmly entrenched earlier, and I don't think it was a significant part of the British in the time period. meanwhile the shift from a Mercantile Empire to laissez-faire, Free Market, ideals, led by people like Adam Smith, had a major impact throughout Britain and the World.
     
  12. Úmarth

    Úmarth Megalomaniac

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    Very nice. I'll say one thing though: you concentrate too much on the political, for example, yes Britain has had a long tradition of representation/democracy but I'd say under both Elizabeth and Victoria their "favourite" civic should be something emphasising trade or empire-building. Just a thought.
     
  13. aman2192

    aman2192 Fade To Black

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    Yup, third to last right behind Brazil and Puerto Rico.



    Now I have to disagree with that. There is no way the Emancipation of Slaves was the most important issue in the United States in the 19th Century. To some people it probally was but not a lot. The biggest issue was deciding if there should be strong Federal government or a strong State government. It's just like when people say we fought the Civil War to free the Slaves if that was true why would six Slave States stay with the Union?
     
  14. Greeneyedzombie

    Greeneyedzombie King

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    The netherlands free religion? I would go for free market. For most of the dutch history what religion you where made all the differance in social live and standing. The dutch independence war, was mostly a religious civil war. Chatolics where the ones who losed, and hence treated as second rank people in the netherlands. There was a time they where forbidden to practice there religion. This seperation between chatolics and the various sects of protestantisme, didn't dissapear till the late 1960's.
     
  15. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    Yes but in Civ inter-Christian conflict is not represented. The only religious differences that are simulated are those between the world religions. The Dutch empire was the least interested out of all the European empires in propagating Christianity. However, its not like those of other religions had equal status to the Christian Dutch within the empire, so maybe Free Market is a better idea.
     
  16. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    I've updated the file with the following changes:
    Persia-Cyrus: vassalage
    England-Victoria: free market
    Russia-Peter: serfdom
    Netherlands: free market
     
  17. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    Pericles is gone by the time Representation is discovered. Also Julius Caesar is missing. Is this intentional. I would suggest an expansion civic, seeing as he expanded and ceated many client kingdoms for Rome.
     
  18. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    I referred to Julius Caesar simply as 'Caesar'. I will edit it to make things clearer. Unfortunately he has the same problem as Pericles - his favourite civic is Representation, civ which he can never implement without the Pyramids. What expansion civic do you suggest? Vassalage is the obvious choice but I'm a bit weary of that because so many older civs already have it. Hmm :/
     
  19. Greeneyedzombie

    Greeneyedzombie King

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    The pyramids in rhye and fall work different. It counts as having monuments in all cities.
     
  20. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    Perhaps viceroyalty, due to his protection of Rome's client kingdom. He made many. Client kingdoms were similar to vassals in Civ. maybe another would work better. On a related note, why not make Joa II or Willem van Oranje into resettlement, due to vast colonial emires, all far from their homeland.
     

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