Modding Religion in Civ IV
- Thread starter AbuHab
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Gr3yL3gion
Voice of Madness
You'll have to wait for the game to find out.
IMO, I think the possibilities in modding the game is huge, so there shouldn't be a problem in modding the game.
IMO, I think the possibilities in modding the game is huge, so there shouldn't be a problem in modding the game.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
As I have said elsewhere, I have decided to add Ossirian, Olympian and Quetzl pantheons into my games. In order to ensure balance, though, I have thought up the following limitations:
All 3 religions require the 'dead-end' techs of Mummification, Mythology and Blood-Cult respectively.
The second limitation relies on an ability to restrict tech access based on resource availability. If this can be done, then I hope to make 'Native Populations' a prerequisite resource for Blood Cult, and Pitch a prerequisite resource for mummification. I confess, though, that I have yet to come up with a limiting resource for studying mythology (though for some reason I am thinking 'Gold'-or inventing the resource 'Gnosticism')
Anyway, I think that these 3 religions, alone, can open up a huge range of options for the religious element of the game!!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
All 3 religions require the 'dead-end' techs of Mummification, Mythology and Blood-Cult respectively.
The second limitation relies on an ability to restrict tech access based on resource availability. If this can be done, then I hope to make 'Native Populations' a prerequisite resource for Blood Cult, and Pitch a prerequisite resource for mummification. I confess, though, that I have yet to come up with a limiting resource for studying mythology (though for some reason I am thinking 'Gold'-or inventing the resource 'Gnosticism')
Anyway, I think that these 3 religions, alone, can open up a huge range of options for the religious element of the game!!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
joethreeblah
King
Don't you think that adding 3 more relions and religion home lands or capitols to the current only 7 will drastically change the dynamic and balance?
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Joe, I agree that if it has to follow just a straight 'Research it and Found it' approach, then yes it would unbalance the game, and dilute the importance of Religion in the game (in which case I won't be adding it). That is why I am waiting to discover if it is possible to limit tech research according to resource access, because that way these last 3 additional religions won't necessarily always turn up in the game-especially if they are also connected to 'dead-end technologies'.
Consider it this way, if a civ acquired ceremonial burial-or its equivalent-then discovers that a nearby terrain has Pitch in it, then this will give them access to the 'Mummification' technology. If they pursue it, and get it first, then they will Found the Ossirian Pantheon (Osiris, Set, Horus, Amon-Ra etc). However, if there is no Pitch, then they cannot pursue it. Also, the fact that the tech goes nowhere may also discourage many AI and Human players from pursuing it-same with Blood Cult and Mythology.
Hope that makes sense.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Consider it this way, if a civ acquired ceremonial burial-or its equivalent-then discovers that a nearby terrain has Pitch in it, then this will give them access to the 'Mummification' technology. If they pursue it, and get it first, then they will Found the Ossirian Pantheon (Osiris, Set, Horus, Amon-Ra etc). However, if there is no Pitch, then they cannot pursue it. Also, the fact that the tech goes nowhere may also discourage many AI and Human players from pursuing it-same with Blood Cult and Mythology.
Hope that makes sense.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Spatzimaus
Mad Scientist
And for the modern era, add Scientology! How about Atheism? Satanism?
On a more serious note, I'm assuming it must be adjustable, simply for scenarios. How would a small-scale (say, Rome) campaign work if suddenly all seven holy cities were in one area?
As to the maximum number? If religions have no bonuses or penalties and are entirely interchangeable, I'd be really wary of adding more. In practice it probably wouldn't change much, since most civs would probably focus on one of the common, early religions, especially once Missionaries get into the picture. Frankly, I just don't see much point in trying to promote one of the "later" religions; you're better off sticking with an early one, and going all-out to capture its holy city.
But!
If the game is moddable to give religions different benefits and penalties, this completely changes. The later ones don't have to be BETTER, per se, just more specialized. If Scientology gives some bonuses to happiness and culture but greatly reduces health (all psychiatrists are quacks!) and annoys every other religion, it still might be something you'd want, if only for one or two specific cities. So if this can be done, you could easily have a dozen religions in the game without it being unbalanced.
On a more serious note, I'm assuming it must be adjustable, simply for scenarios. How would a small-scale (say, Rome) campaign work if suddenly all seven holy cities were in one area?
As to the maximum number? If religions have no bonuses or penalties and are entirely interchangeable, I'd be really wary of adding more. In practice it probably wouldn't change much, since most civs would probably focus on one of the common, early religions, especially once Missionaries get into the picture. Frankly, I just don't see much point in trying to promote one of the "later" religions; you're better off sticking with an early one, and going all-out to capture its holy city.
But!
If the game is moddable to give religions different benefits and penalties, this completely changes. The later ones don't have to be BETTER, per se, just more specialized. If Scientology gives some bonuses to happiness and culture but greatly reduces health (all psychiatrists are quacks!) and annoys every other religion, it still might be something you'd want, if only for one or two specific cities. So if this can be done, you could easily have a dozen religions in the game without it being unbalanced.
holy king
Deity
i dont think religions will be moddable so they give certain benefits or disadvantages, since this is not part of the overall game concept on religion, but lets see...
MRM
Prince
Spatzimaus said:
Hm - IMO atheism could be an civic option - no benifits from religon, but also no drawbacks from foreign religons
The End Is Nigh
Repent!!!
I think Dodecatheon would be suitable when playing the Greeks (and many Civs adopted it during the ancient times). I don't understand why it is not in.
AbuHab
Warlord
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Taoism and Confucianism aren't "major faiths"??? I think the approximately 350 million adherents of those faiths might find that a bit surprising. One might rather wonder why Judaism, with only about 14 million adherents, is included in the list.Ranbir said:
AbuHab
Warlord
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I agree. The list includes only religions that are important today, and completely ignores ancient religions that had a great deal of influence--some of which (e.g., Mithraism) heavily influenced the development of today's religions.The End Is Nigh said:
No, for example Confucious is emphasize on order of the society, which is close to the effect of organized trait, but sacrificed science research speed.
Tamman said:Hmm but isn't collecting money how most religons affect the world?
On a more serious note perhaps is might be possible to mod in UU's for the different religons? things like Crusader for the christians, Masadans for Judaism, etc, etc.
I'm really disappointed by the lack of detail for paganism, tribal religions and what-d'ya-call-the-type-of-religion-that-the-romans-and-aztecs-have, afterall, they're very important in history up until about the industrial ages (and still are influrential today). I'm not saying that they should be able to spread their religion or build missionaries but it needed to be expand a little bit more, for example if you start as the Greeks you start with a type of Paganism that is Greek in style and have a certain bonus to that civ (for example allow a small wonder "Olympic Games" or "Statue of Zeus" - i totally disagree that "ivory-rich" Russia or Mexica or India should be able to build it in a civ3conquest game).
If religions are mod-able that's what I like to do with it. But I doubt so. Even if religions can be mod, it would probably be like in C3C where you can only have 31 civ max in any game (ie probably 7 religions max in Civ4) which means you can't add atheism, scientology, Zoroasterism, and all the assorted religion without leaving out the seven in-game religions.
Also, I would like to remind that each religion already have a UU: missionaries.
If religions are mod-able that's what I like to do with it. But I doubt so. Even if religions can be mod, it would probably be like in C3C where you can only have 31 civ max in any game (ie probably 7 religions max in Civ4) which means you can't add atheism, scientology, Zoroasterism, and all the assorted religion without leaving out the seven in-game religions.
Also, I would like to remind that each religion already have a UU: missionaries.
AbuHab said:
It's a problem when you merely base it on number. For the mere fact that, Chinese traditional, and primal-indigenous stomp it. Even with the listing of the number of aethiests. And that is because of, look at the bloody population of China.
Hardly representative.
And the influence Buddhism had on those Tao and confuciasm is so large, it's very hard to imagine how they would have shaped up without it. Not to mention the variety of levels in culture that India itself had on China...I could even get into how Taoism and Conf. are less faiths as works on the order of society and such.
We can then look on to the major branches, Babi and Baha'i faiths
Buddhism, Confucianism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism. (In alphabetical order, mind you.)
These 12 are considered the Major world religions. Not in number of followers, but in the mere fact these are the most studied today.
Looking at world distribution, influence and parts of play in history, confucianism and taoism are hardly major either. So yes, I stand by my decision. Firaxis probably spent 15 minutes in research for the religion aspect, and I am not impressed by it.
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