Modern Age Legacy Paths / Victory Conditions speculation

TheSpaceCowboy

The Gangster of Love
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
622
With the reveal of Modern Age civs and information mere days away, I wanted to take the opportunity now to speculate on what the Legacy Paths and other gameplay features will define the final chapter of the game.
I’ll start with my ideas for the four Legacy Paths:


Culture - “Blue Jeans and Rock & Roll”
Build at least one of every type of modern Cultural building filled with Great Works sharing a common Theme.
Great Works must be Themed. For example, Platinum Records produced by Country Western Bands do not theme with Records produced by Rappers; Football trophies do not theme with Soccer trophies; Dinosaur bones do not theme with Arrowheads; etc.
Civs following the Fascism Ideology have a high chance of producing Great Works which will be Censored (cannot be displayed), and must be destroyed or traded to other civs to avoid a severe Happiness penalty.
Modern Culture buildings include:

  1. Art Gallery - Paintings and Sculptures
  2. History Museum - Artifacts (found by Archeologists) and Fossils (found by Paleontologists)
  3. Bookstore - Literature
  4. Concert Venue - Platinum Records (produced by Bands)
  5. Cineplex - Film Reels
  6. Arcade - Video Games (produced by Game Designers)
  7. Sports Stadium - Trophies (produced by winning World Games)
  8. Shopping Mall - Apparel (produced by Corporations)
Military - “Cold War”
Have 10 Suzerain City-States adopt your chosen Ideology.
Independent Peoples and City States that are conquered and liberated automatically adopt your Ideology.
Civs following the Democratic Republic Ideology accrue massive War Weariness in all non-defensive wars; War Weariness for them produces Protesters who pillage random buildings.

Economic - “Fortune 500”
Form a Conglomerate for all types of Industries.
Conglomerates can be formed by merging Corporations from the same Industry.
Corporations can be formed by building a sufficient number of particular improvements
(e.g. two Airports unlocks the ability to form an Airline; two Train Stations unlocks the ability to form a Railroad; two Cineplexes unlocks the ability to form a Movie Studio; etc.)
Civs following the Communism Ideology cannot form Corporations or Conglomerates
Industry types include:

  1. Energy - merge an Oil Company (from an Oil Well, Offshore Well, and an Oil Power Plant), Coal Company (from a Coal Mine and a Coal Power Plant), and a Nuclear Company (from a Uranium Mine and a Nuclear Power Plant)
  2. Finance - merge a Bank (from three Savings & Loans buildings) and an Investment Portfolio (from three Stock Exchanges)
  3. Manufacturing - merge a Fashion Brand (from three Clothing Factories) and a Tech Brand (from three Electronics Factories)
  4. Media - merge a Record Label (from two Concert Venues), Publishing House (from two Bookstores), Movie Studio (from two Cineplexes), and Game Publisher (from two Arcades)
  5. Transportation - merge an Airline (from two Airports), Railroad (from two Train Stations), and Shipping company (from two Harbors)
Science - “Theory of Everything”
Make all Scientific Discoveries, accomplished by running Experiments (at type of Project) at different types of modern Science buildings.
Each time an Experiment is conducted, it has a chance to make progress towards the discovery. Sometimes nothing is learned, sometimes the solution is immediately hit upon.
Scientific Discoveries include:

  1. The Standard Model (discovered via Particle Accelerators; each Experiments runs a small risk of a Black Hole, which destroys all nearby tiles)
  2. The Human Genome (discovered via Research Labs; each Experiments runs a small risk of creating a Supervillian, a powerful hostile Military unit)
  3. Panacea (discovered via Institutes of Virology; each Experiments runs a small risk of a leaking a Pandemic)
  4. General Artificial Intelligence (discovered via Server Farms; each Experiments runs a small risk of a Rogue A.I., in which it launches several available ICBMs at your cities)
  5. First Contact (discovered via Satellite Arrays; each Experiments runs a small risk of an Alien Invasion, in which a UFO destroys several Wonders)
  6. Exoplanet Colonization (discovered via Spaceport; each Experiments runs a small risk of a Shuttle explosion in which random Specialists die)
 
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Culture - “Blue Jeans and Rock & Roll”
Build at least one of every type of modern Cultural building filled with Great Works sharing a common Theme.
Great Works must be Themed. For example, Platinum Records produced by Country Western Bands do not theme with Records produced by Rappers; Football trophies do not theme with Soccer trophies; Dinosaur bones do not theme with Arrowheads; etc.
Modern Culture buildings include:

  1. Art Gallery - Paintings and Sculptures
  2. History Museum - Artifacts (found by Archeologists) and Fossils (found by Paleontologists)
  3. Bookstore - Literature
  4. Concert Venue - Platinum Records (produced by Bands)
  5. Cineplex - Film Reels
  6. Arcade - Video Games (produced by Game Designers)
  7. Sports Stadium - Trophies (produced by winning World Games)
  8. Shopping Mall - Apparel (produced by Corporations)
I don't think that we'll see that many different works of art and associated building. And, as stupid as it was explained in civ VI, I think there'll still be a defense/offense with the cultural victory, and not just a "I'm playing my own game, regardless of opponents" collector's victory.

What I hope, even with just 2 or 3 cultural buildings, is that theming now happens automatically. I don't want to reshuffle great works between 10 museums to get the optimal output (and have blocked great works because they've been moved recently while I'm at it).

Military - “Cold War”
Have 10 Suzerain City-States adopt your chosen Ideology.
Independent Peoples and City States that are conquered and liberated automatically adopt your Ideology.
This seems rather impossible to achieve in MP, leading to an endless whack-a-mole, but the concept is fun. The problem that I see with this is that, in some cases, there won't be many IPs in the modern age, because the map is fully or close to fully settled at the end of the Exploration era - which means there is no space to spawn a larger number of IPs.
 
Pretty sure they said that the Modern age would be about fighting over special resources (Coal, Oil, Aluminium and Uranium at least) so I assume that the win conditions will be around holding either a certain number of resources or their hexes as the military one and using them to build spaceships to reach the moon as the science one. Dunno about the Culture and Economic ones but I assume they will have some sort of Tourism and Companies mechanics for those
 
I don't think that we'll see that many different works of art and associated building. And, as stupid as it was explained in civ VI, I think there'll still be a defense/offense with the cultural victory, and not just a "I'm playing my own game, regardless of opponents" collector's victory.

What I hope, even with just 2 or 3 cultural buildings, is that theming now happens automatically. I don't want to reshuffle great works between 10 museums to get the optimal output (and have blocked great works because they've been moved recently while I'm at it).


This seems rather impossible to achieve in MP, leading to an endless whack-a-mole, but the concept is fun. The problem that I see with this is that, in some cases, there won't be many IPs in the modern age, because the map is fully or close to fully settled at the end of the Exploration era - which means there is no space to spawn a larger number of IPs.
You spawn extra IPs by liberating your opponents settlements. (ala WWI AH/Ottomans)
 
Science - “Theory of Everything”
Make all Scientific Discoveries, accomplished by running Experiments (at type of Project) at different types of modern Science buildings.
Each time an Experiment is conducted, it has a chance to make progress towards the discovery. Sometimes nothing is learned, sometimes the solution is immediately hit upon.
Scientific Discoveries include:

  1. The Standard Model (discovered via Particle Accelerators; each Experiments runs a small risk of a Black Hole, which destroys all nearby tiles)
  2. The Human Genome (discovered via Research Labs; each Experiments runs a small risk of creating a Supervillian, a powerful hostile Military unit)
  3. Panacea (discovered via Institutes of Virology; each Experiments runs a small risk of a leaking a Pandemic)
  4. General Artificial Intelligence (discovered via Server Farms; each Experiments runs a small risk of a Rogue A.I., in which it launches several available ICBMs at your cities)
  5. First Contact (discovered via Satellite Arrays; each Experiments runs a small risk of an Alien Invasion, in which a UFO destroys several Wonders)
  6. Exoplanet Colonization (discovered via Spaceport; each Experiments runs a small risk of a Shuttle explosion in which random Specialists die)
The return of Civ2 'Wonder'. if you remember which one.
 
a winning by invading places not ideology
It could be a combination of both, as in specifically invading those with different ideologies.
 
I think the military victory will be better as normal
The Military legacy path in other Ages isn't just a repeat of the Domination victory type; I doubt (and hope) that it won't be for the Modern Age.
A Cold War would incentivize player and AI behavior much more similar to real world recent history.
Few modern countries aspire to global conquest;
Even Axis of Evil nations like the CCP, Iran, Russia, and North Korea primarily project soft power in forms such as Belt & Road, state-sponsored terrorism, espionage, and intellectual property theft.
Outright invasions into their neighbors' sovereign territory (as Russia did to Ukraine, and the CCP threatens to do to the Republic of China or the Philippines) are incredibly rare.
Civ VII seems to have ditched Nuclear Gandhi; let's go the whole nine-yard and incentivize proxy wars like Vietnam and Afghanistan over thermonuclear World Wars.
 
I presume Moon Landing Rocket Modules collecting as project producing for Scientific, Corporations collecting for Economic, Great Wirks of Film/Music/Media collecting for Cultural and Ideology Spreading for Militaristic
 
The Cold War occupies at most a quarter of the modern age, and comes hot on the heels of two little conflicts called "First World War" and "Second World War". Builting the entire military victory condition on a tiny fraction of the era that may not even be fully included in the modern age is a little farcical.

As to all the scince victory conditions having a chance to backfire (when the other victory conditions list no such things): 🙄
 
The Cold War occupies at most a quarter of the modern age, and comes hot on the heels of two little conflicts called "First World War" and "Second World War". Builting the entire military victory condition on a tiny fraction of the era that may not even be fully included in the modern age is a little farcical.
While the first Cold War only lasted from 1945 - 1991, I'd place the timeline of the Second Cold War as 2008* - Present, adding 16 (and counting) years to the total.
Moreover, The First and Second Cold Wars occupy the tail end of the timeline, making them particularly pertinent for Victory Conditions.

*The 2008 Summer Olympics were a significant moment in global geopolitics.
Bush's spent political capital in the Afghan and Iraq wars made a Western or even American boycott of the games less feasible, and signaled America was no longer commanding as much authority internationally.
Simultaneously, the CCP used the games to signal its intentions for a so-called "Chinese century".
Alternatively, one could place the start of the Second Cold War in 2012 with the election of Winnie the Pooh, or 2013 with the start of Belt & Road
 
The Cold War occupies at most a quarter of the modern age, and comes hot on the heels of two little conflicts called "First World War" and "Second World War". Builting the entire military victory condition on a tiny fraction of the era that may not even be fully included in the modern age is a little farcical.

As to all the scince victory conditions having a chance to backfire (when the other victory conditions list no such things): 🙄
You're absolutely right.
To correct this, I added a malus to each of the other three Victory Conditions which affects Civs which follow one of the three Ideologies (Communism, Democratic Republics, and Fascism)
While the Science Victory Condition runs risks, it's also available to all Ideologies.

Culture - “Blue Jeans and Rock & Roll”
Civs following the Fascism Ideology have a high chance of producing Great Works which will be Censored (cannot be displayed), and must be destroyed or traded to other civs to avoid a severe Happiness penalty.

Military - “Cold War”
Civs following the Democratic Republic Ideology accrue massive War Weariness in all non-defensive wars; War Weariness for them produces Protesters who pillage random buildings.

Economic - “Fortune 500”
Civs following the Communism Ideology cannot form Corporations or Conglomerates
 
The Military legacy path in other Ages isn't just a repeat of the Domination victory type; I doubt (and hope) that it won't be for the Modern Age.
A Cold War would incentivize player and AI behavior much more similar to real world recent history.
Few modern countries aspire to global conquest;
Even Axis of Evil nations like the CCP, Iran, Russia, and North Korea primarily project soft power in forms such as Belt & Road, state-sponsored terrorism, espionage, and intellectual property theft.
Outright invasions into their neighbors' sovereign territory (as Russia did to Ukraine, and the CCP threatens to do to the Republic of China or the Philippines) are incredibly rare.
Civ VII seems to have ditched Nuclear Gandhi; let's go the whole nine-yard and incentivize proxy wars like Vietnam and Afghanistan over thermonuclear World Wars.
And decent nuclear weapons mechanics (MAD) could make that the only viable Military victory.
 
To correct this, I added a malus to each of the other three Victory Conditions which affects Civs which follow one of the three Ideologies (Communism, Democratic Republics, and Fascism)
While the Science Victory Condition runs risks, it's also available to all Ideologies.
I really hope we're not stuck with Communism, Democracy, and Fascism again. The has to be more interesting and in my opinion more accurate ways of representing modern governments.
 
I really hope we're not stuck with Communism, Democracy, and Fascism again. The has to be more interesting and in my opinion more accurate ways of representing modern governments.
Well fascism could be broadened out to include theocratic/illiberal democracies

And a large part of the difference in government ideologies would probably be what their propaganda emphasizes.
 
I really hope we're not stuck with Communism, Democracy, and Fascism again. The has to be more interesting and in my opinion more accurate ways of representing modern governments.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if it were just two Ideologies - Freedom versus Communism.
Make every civ choose one side or the other; no third option.
Fascism's inclusion would help bring about scenarios similar to the Second World War, but I think the Cold Wars offers more interesting gameplay

Perhaps within an Ideology there could be different Governments, but they wouldn't influence Alliances and international relations they way that Ideologies would
 
I am curious whether the victories will be as "simple" as the earlier games (as in, first to conquer the capitals, first to land their spaceship, first to dominate culturally, etc...), or whether they will entirely shift things over to being like a Victory Point system instead. As in, will it be possible for me to end the game with both a military and cultural victory, for example?

The other part I am curious about is whether the modern era crisis will be something triggered by whoever reaches a set milestone first, and the crisis is basically the "last run to victory", or whether it will be relatively independent of what's going on. Because in either case, the game should end when the crisis ends. But what if nobody reached the victory in that time? Like is the Crisis "Space Race", and it just runs until someone completes the space race? Could you trigger the space race crisis to lock someone else out of a cultural victory? Or will the crisis be "Cold War", and it can end with any of the victory types still somehow?
 
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