Modern civilizations bet

[Franc007She]

I'm sorry if you can't see the difference.

Qing is in civ 7, and I'm talking about there being good reasons for that in my opinion, aside from giving you some basic information about the game.
You are bringing something up from contemporary politics that has no relationship at all to the game that is discussed in this forum. It's not just highly hypothetical, it's also completely irrelevant.

I'm sorry that you don't like what you are seeing with civ 7's choices. But no one forces you to buy or play it. And if you like everything else besides Qing, then there is the easy solution to mod them out, as I've said three times now. Modding civs (aside from UB and UU graphics) seems much easier than in civ V and VI with the associated leaders. And if you are happy with a name change from Qing to Manchu, it's probably done in mere minutes. If some Russians mod in Putin and Stalin, and someone else mods in a Ukrainian civ, then that's a fact as well. If your actual goal is not related to the game at all, but to try to convince people in these forums that Qing is a bad representation for modern China, you may waste your time unless you can come with solid arguments. So far, I haven't seen any.

This is an attitude that whether the producer care it or not to show china with the dark ages.

 

[Siptah]

This is an attitude that whether the producer care it or not to show china with the dark ages.

And that's probably the root of the problem of this discussion: Firaxis might (and rightfully in my opinion) see Qing before 1800 as one of the Golden Ages of China.

 

[Franc007She]

I emphasize it every time because it's still true, The third Era Chinese civ cannot be defined by its leaders, because in most games it won't have those leaders. The "recommended option" for leaders is just a suggestion, and it has little or no gameplay impact (in this case, it eould have none, because the only benefit of recommended options is that the leader will unlock access to that civ - and if you're playing Ming you already have the Modern chinese civilization unlocked.

players will unlock qing if they play with other 2nd era civ and the 3rd chinese civ is qing.

 

[Krikkit1]

I'd prefer to delete the modern chinese civlization if there is neither Sun nor Mao. Qing is just suitable for a Manchurian civlization. Its culture is Tungus but not confucian.
Yes, again: There will be manchurian but no china in civ7 if what you say comes true.

Ok, thats a way to look at it, civ will release with 2 chinese and one manchurian civilization, just like it will release with only one Mauryan civ, one Chola civ, and one Mughal civ. (some people will call those 3 indian civs, some will say that’s 2 indian civs and one not)
Some will say Normans and America are 2 english civs, some will say they are 0 english civs…that’s fine

There doesn’t need to be a chinese civ in the modern era, just like there isn’t an Anerican civ in the ancient.

Since chinese civilization was replaced by manchurian civilization (according to you) then civ 7 shouldn’t have a modern chinese civilization.(according to you)

 

[AriochIV]

I had forgotten about this shot from the PAX AUS Art panel:

I've seen it suggested that the Panzer-IV was added to be used as a Japanese tank (which is a bit silly, since Japan never used the Panzer-IV), but I don't think that argument can be used for our Wehrmacht infantryman here. Germany is coming in some form, and soon... either in the base game, or in one of the early DLC.

Another argument could be that it's "just a generic Northern European infantryman," except that that the only other Northern European civilization in the base game is France, and you're looking at the French modern infantryman in the same image. I suppose it's not impossible that they might add specific units like this just to use for Independent Powers, but it seems extremely unlikely (though that would be darkly funny) that they would make Germany a city-state.

 

[Krikkit1]

I had forgotten about this shot from the PAX AUS Art panel:

View attachment 710962

I've seen it suggested that the Panzer-IV was added to be used as a Japanese tank (which is a bit silly, since Japan never used the Panzer-IV), but I don't think that argument can be used for our Wehrmacht infantryman here. Germany is coming in some form, and soon... either in the base game, or in one of the early DLC.

Another argument could be that it's "just a generic Northern European infantryman," except that that the only other Northern European civilization in the base game is France, and you're looking at the French modern infantryman in the same image. I suppose it's not impossible that they might add specific units like this just to use for Independent Powers, but it seems extremely unlikely (though that would be darkly funny) that they would make Germany a city-state.

Germany as a (collection of) city states would make sense for an era that starts in 1700-1800.

 

[Evie]

Hrm. Alternatively, these could be three tiers of Modern infantry.

While the middle one looks a lot like 1939 German Infantry, 1918 German Infantry (after the discontinuation fo the Picklehaube in 1916) and 1939 German infantry have very few differences to go by. Given what we've seen o battlehsips (Ironclad, PRe-Dreadnaught, WW2 Fast battleship) tiers, one woudl be inclined to think that a 1800s modern infantry, an early 1900s modern infantry, and a mid 1900s modern infantry should all be expected in the game, and form the generic infantry types of the game. This image woudl match taht expected progression perfectly. Of cours eth eone on teh left COULD be a French UU, but we'll have to wait and see.

Sure, you could say the first one had to be Frnech because ti shows no country colors, but barely any of them show any country colors, and I doubt they'Re all unique units.

 

[uppi]

I had forgotten about this shot from the PAX AUS Art panel:

View attachment 710962

I've seen it suggested that the Panzer-IV was added to be used as a Japanese tank (which is a bit silly, since Japan never used the Panzer-IV), but I don't think that argument can be used for our Wehrmacht infantryman here. Germany is coming in some form, and soon... either in the base game, or in one of the early DLC.

Another argument could be that it's "just a generic Northern European infantryman," except that that the only other Northern European civilization in the base game is France, and you're looking at the French modern infantryman in the same image. I suppose it's not impossible that they might add specific units like this just to use for Independent Powers, but it seems extremely unlikely (though that would be darkly funny) that they would make Germany a city-state.

I was going to say, this infantryman looks exactly like the one shown for the modern age militaristic independent power here:

but looking at those side by side, there are some minor differences as the style of the boots and the helmet seems to be different.

But they seem to have the assets for a modern age German civ pretty much ready. There is a wonder, there are matching units, the only thing missing would be some kind of unique infrastructure. If it was a DLC civ, then not because of time constraints.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Here's my prediction, it's kind of stupid but yeah
1. America
2. Mexico
3. France
4. Either Germany (If Germany they're probably going Prussia or Imperial) or Russia (Tsarist most likely, maybe Soviet?) maybe British
5. Either Morocco or Nigeria
6. Buganda
7. Ottomans
8. Mughals
9. Siam
10. Japan
(If possible, maybe DLC) 11. Qing

 

[Xandinho]

Here's my prediction, it's kind of stupid but yeah
1. America
2. Mexico
3. France
4. Either Germany (If Germany they're probably going Prussia or Imperial) or Russia (Tsarist most likely, maybe Soviet?) maybe British
5. Either Morocco or Nigeria
6. Buganda
7. Ottomans
8. Mughals
9. Qing
10. Japan

Siam was seen in screenshots.

 

[Potworny]

I've seen it suggested that the Panzer-IV was added to be used as a Japanese tank (which is a bit silly, since Japan never used the Panzer-IV), but I don't think that argument can be used for our Wehrmacht infantryman here. Germany is coming in some form, and soon... either in the base game, or in one of the early DLC.

My gut feeling is that they'd rather not show DLC assets at this point, I guess. I keep looking at the Norman selection screen to make Germany fit there (because I assume it'd have to be there). Maybe if the game uses tighter kerning than my Photoshop? America would graphically fit perfectly, but maybe Normans NOT going into America would make American progressions less busy, especially when Spain can take Mexico for itself?

Spoiler :

 

[Leucarum]

Gotta say that the modern era definitely has the least civs which grab my interest based on pure vibes. Thinking back I'd always gravitated to civs from earlier in history, trying to pick modern era civs that I actually feel excited to play is a challenge.

I'll put a bet though that if and when there's a modern Britain it might be England to leave room for a Scotland in the same era down the line... If they did want a celtic chain, they're the most likely modern civ.

 

[Zaarin]

I'll put a bet though that if and when there's a modern Britain it might be England to leave room for a Scotland in the same era down the line... If they did want a celtic chain, they're the most likely modern civ.

I think clear chains will be the exception rather than the rule, and I think the modern civ will almost certainly be Britain, based both on Ed's comments and on the time period.

 

[Jeppetto]

I think we may get both England in EA and Britain in MA, especially if Britain is shifted to DLC

 

[Leucarum]

I think clear chains will be the exception rather than the rule, and I think the modern civ will almost certainly be Britain, based both on Ed's comments and on the time period.

In general yes, but with Gaul and Scotland both in 6 I think this route might be an exception further in the game's lifespan. Seems like they sell...

 

[Evie]

More like, seems like everyone agreed Scotland was a joke that did a very poor job of representing anythign Celtic.

 

[Zaarin]

In general yes, but with Gaul and Scotland both in 6 I think this route might be an exception further in the game's lifespan. Seems like they sell...

I 100% expect Antiquity Gaul and about 75% expect Exploration Ireland; I'm less convinced of Modern Scotland, despite how uncomfortable Ireland > Britain may be...Also, most through lines seem to be at least somewhat synergistic in game play. Militarist/economic Gaul > cultural Ireland > scientific Scotland is all over the place.

 

[Evie]

One reason why I think Scotland in the Exploration slot, may actually be more likely - More likely to keep Militarist-Economic and segue into Britain, and Scotland becoming Britain is a lot harder to object to.

 

[AriochIV]

I was going to say, this infantryman looks exactly like the one shown for the modern age militaristic independent power here:

but looking at those side by side, there are some minor differences as the style of the boots and the helmet seems to be different.

But they seem to have the assets for a modern age German civ pretty much ready. There is a wonder, there are matching units, the only thing missing would be some kind of unique infrastructure. If it was a DLC civ, then not because of time constraints.

Do you mean this one?

I'm pretty sure that's French infantry of WWII, or at least the helmet is French. They have it in the slide about Independent Powers, but the labeling on the slides in this presentation are wildly inaccurate, so I can't read too much into that.

My gut feeling is that they'd rather not show DLC assets at this point, I guess.

I also think it's unlikely that they've been showing us DLC assets at this point (most likely because they don't yet exist), but I am allowing that it's possible.

 

[Zaarin]

One reason why I think Scotland in the Exploration slot, may actually be more likely - More likely to keep Militarist-Economic and segue into Britain, and Scotland becoming Britain is a lot harder to object to.

Fair, but the devs don't seem squeamish about uncomfortable age transitions (Shawnee > United States, Inca > Mexico, Majapahit >? Meiji Japan, Ming >? Meiji Japan, Persia > Mongolia, Silla >? Edo Japan). I do agree Scotland is more synergistic, though. I still suspect we'll see Ireland, though.