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[MODs]”AI+“ or “Real Strategy”?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Deggial, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Deggial

    Deggial Chieftain

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    Do you have experience with both AI mods?

    They are mutual exclusive for obvious reasons. Which one do you prefer? (And maybe: Why?)

    Oh and by the way ... kudos to both authors. Your work is highly appreciated!
     
  2. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Chieftain

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    I have tried Real Strategy for around 2 weeks. AI+ for a long time.

    I think I prefer AI+ for games where I know I will be warmongering.

    I like Real Strategy for peaceful games. I had 2 AIs almost trigger an early victory (one science, one culture) and that almost caught me off guard.

    That said, my experience for Real Strategy is small sample size wise. I like em both, but some games with AI+ the AI will give me a really good fight and I really like that. Reminds me of Vox Populi mod a little bit. I hope Firaxis gives the .dll to the modders soon, so that the AI can be programmed the same way Vox Populi is, and we can get REALLY serious challenges from the AI. Vox Populi is so tough I do not think I can beat Immortal or Deity.
     
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  3. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

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    I have tried VP and was quite unimpressed. I mean, it is definitely harder but I hate the way it is made harder. VP makes all AI insanely furious and constantly invading human player again, and again, and again, even when they have no chance of victory they launch suicidal attacks just to make human victory harder. It is really goddamn annoying and breaks my immersion quite a bit.

    I'm not even sure if it improves tactical AI that much, I watched VP AI-only match and could see on several occasions how for example Zulu's attack city with 6 crossbows but no melee units to take it...
    For 20 turns. Also at some point all civs were so insane about wars that there were barely any military units left alive on the map, and AI still declares wars on each other with their pathetic armies incapable of taking even one city.
     
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  4. Leathaface

    Leathaface Warlord

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    Interesting. In my first 2 Diety games i've won pretty easily once I got to the late game, I might get Real Strategy.
     
  5. ggalindo001

    ggalindo001 Chieftain

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    I've used both.

    Pre Gathering Storm -- I liked AI+, as another poster stated, it is great for warmongering.

    Post Gathering Storm -- I have exclusively used Real Strategy. The traits of the AI feel more in line with expectations (if you start next to Mongolia, you will be in a fight, etc.) In these games, at Immortal and above, I am currently 1 win and 4 losses using a mix of Real Strategy, Smoother Difficulty, and FortifAI (which I also highly recommend). Combat AI is still subpar, but the AI's ability to win thru Science and Culture is enhanced greatly.
     
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  6. Revolutionist_8

    Revolutionist_8 Chieftain

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    I've been using Real Strategy for a while now, and quite impressed. Modders hands are tied atm., it's limited what they can do, so Real Strategy won't make the AI suddenly human-like but the difference is noticeable for sure. AI puts more effort for what they can realisticly achieve instead of just "floating around", and it can make them (potentially) really competent.

    One prime example for me was how efficiently AI uses ships (and builds them). I'll be definitely keep using it (even more so because how awesome @Infixo is, he regularly updates it :) )

    I used to play with AI+, and sometimes I was really surprised about some AI moves, but in the long run it still felt somewhat too easy (but still faaar better than original). But it's just a personal opinion, hard to measure.
     
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  7. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Chieftain

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    There is a good thread in the Vox Populi subforum here, where the creator explains why this is. I cannot do his post justice but the gist I got out of it was that, "Do you want the AI to try and win or sit there and give up?" It makes logical sense to me, even if it is a deep departure from a regular Civ game.The AI is going to try anything it can to regain anything you take from it. The best way to make them irrelevant as Marbozir likes to say, is to beat them down until your war score is about 100 or close to it and make them a vassal. Even then some of the AIs personalities as vassals will do things to stab you in the back even if they cannot declare war on you (like Iroquois and Denmark), like vote for sanctions at the world congress against you. Wiping them out completely can make you a monster public opinion wise too, making them all attack you. It can be really difficult to balance out things. If you do not prepare well enough they can stop you dead in your tracks even with the widest empire in the game, by demolishing your economy. You cannot ignore getting delegates or diplomacy if you wanted to. You have to play very well rounded the entire game, unlike regular civ games.
     
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  8. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

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    Yeah, but I simply dislike this design philosophy. Maybe if it would be setup option "raging AI" on top of more basic AI upgrades...
    I don't play civ games to conquer the entire map or torture myself with insane difficulty. I play civ to create fun civilizations and look how the world develops around me, to see another world history, and im the end have some decent challenge with victory.
    VP ruins both as the entire world bends to deal me as much pain as possible, to hell with immersion and sandbox.

    When I installed VP I expected it to make AI smarter without dramatically changing the nature of the game, instead it turns the game into something else entirely.

    I really hope that whoever makes major AI dll mod for civ6 he/she remains minimalist and "merely" upgrades tactical and strategic AI skills, not changes their fundamental nature and purpose in the game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  9. darko82

    darko82 Chieftain

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    Did you play without a balanced patch? The core improves only the AI without changing the game so much.

    Still no reply? Your arguments are INVALID, then.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  10. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS Chieftain

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    I've never tried Real Strategy but I plan to tonight. I've used AI+ for awhile now and, as far as I can tell, there are three main improvements:

    1. AI DoWs make more sense. Not only do you get DoWed when your diplomatic relations are bad, but the AI seems to do it only when they think they can actually, at bare minimum, take a city. Vanilla AI would often DoW because of bad diplomacy but their army consists of 2 warriors and 2 archers on turn 70. Also, AIs are much more likely to DoW in the ancient and classical eras simply because they can. I like this very much because it's similar to how most players think. Early cities and grievances that will deteriorate very quickly are the main reason early war is popular -- it's effective.

    2. Troop movements are better. The AI knows how to deal with walls in multiple ways, knows they need to mass units when facing a city, and knows they need to focus on completely killing enemy units while avoided that fate for their own military.

    3. AI makes a decision on what victory it wants sooner and starts building tons of those districts. I had India on another continent and when I discovered them, they had 15 campuses!!! (a big chunk of those cities were conquered as well ;) ). They still didn't win but it was refreshing to see that kind of behavior.
     
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  11. Bitterman

    Bitterman Chieftain

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    I've tried them both and prefer Real Strategy.

    AI+ just makes AI more agressive and militarly focused as far as I can tell. They'll make tons of units and 58 campuses just to stay on your level. I've also had problems with this mod and the AI trying to settle cities, because for some reason they sometimes move around with their settlers forever without building any cities.

    Real Strategy in the other hand just makes the AI more focused in a certain type of victory. For example, in my actual game as Canada, Scotland is first on science and I've never managed to get to their level. Egypt is the strongest in culture and is sending me Rock bands non-stop. Both have the possibilty to win now. Holland is trying religious and they only have 2 civs left to win. I'm going for diplomacy but honestly I don't even know how I'm going to win the diplo points thing in the congress so I'm screwed at the moment. Very very interesting game.

    I'm also using Smoother Diffculty though.
     
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  12. Leathaface

    Leathaface Warlord

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    Are these 3 mods compatible with each other?
     
  13. Gloompy

    Gloompy Chieftain

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    I've been weary of trying both of them because more often than not, while the intentions of the authors are good and modest, they tend to screw things up a little bit more than i'd like. Maybe my next game session.
     
  14. glider1

    glider1 Chieftain

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    Sounds like what would work is a hybrid "Real Strategy AI+" mod since from what I read AI+ is more on the tactical side, Real Strategy on the strategy side.
     
  15. Deggial

    Deggial Chieftain

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    This might change in the future, though. The author of “Real Strategy” states that he is inclined to integrate some parts of “AI+“ in the furure (iirc).

    Anyway, thanks for so many comments and opinions!

    I now somehow lean towards keeping “AI+”, as I am more of a warlike player.
    I’ll give “Real Strategy” a go, though. The mod management is really well done in Civ6, I find, and switching mods a breeze.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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