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Moff Jerjerrod's WW2 Global - Reloaded

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Moff Jerjerrod, May 19, 2010.

  1. RKP

    RKP Regent

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    Guys:

    I am now up to turn 30 of 1940. It has been a very interesting run on the game. Starting on turn 16, Russia and Turkey went to war. On turn 19, Greece also went to war with Turkey. Did not see much headway in that fight for about 10 turns. Then there was massive movement of Russian Tank Divisions through Northern Iran and Iraq. From there till turn 30, the Russians took Adana, Ankara, Trabzon, and Samsun. I would say that in a few turns that Turkey will be gone.

    The French have been holding on much longer than I have ever seen them to in a game. Granted this is my first game with Moff's version. All the others have been on Rocotech's mod. But the pattern of attack by the German AI is mostly the same. I think the difference is the AI's use of the AT gun. I have watched what I would call the German AT gun version of the Chinese human wave attack. Mainly against the Strasbourg forts. But the AI is using it against the cities more and more. On turn 23, Paris fell and on turn 28, the French took Verdun back. It now seems to be see-sawing back and forth with the two cities. If the Germans take Verdun back, the French take Paris back. And the reverse if the Germans go back for Paris.

    On turn 20 to 22. I took Java, New Guinea, and Celebes away from the Japanese. At this time I have no idea what the Americans are doing. I know they have a couple of troopships, for I have seen them come and go from port. But I have no idea were they are attacking. I am assuming its the mainland of Japan. On turn 26, the Dutch are officially dead. Loved the fight with the Japanese trying to take back Java. Fighting for the city of Surabaya. Down to the last Aussie and Jap Marine. Both down to the last red bar. Jap of course comes back in and the Aussie shoots once. Jap is dead, Aussie goes Elite and does his whoo-hoo quote! By the way, love the Hapoo voice for the Indian units. Should see if you can get a John Wayne quip for an American unit.

    Now that I have build a road from Egypt to India. The French have stopped getting in my way and have headed for Indochina. Too bad that the French AI will not build a transport and move them to France. Could really use them there a well. I don't think the American AI has built any transports at all. So the ones in the Pacific are probably just the survivors of the preplaced ones. If it had some in the Atlantic left. I am sure I would see some invasion taking place there. But right now I have American units running about Canada. Molesting the Sheep and scaring our Women. (hehehe) That's it for now.
     
  2. RKP

    RKP Regent

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    Anthony:

    Do you need the track build first? Or do they just run on the roads? There was one train unit made years ago. But it disappeared shortly after its creator left the forums. It had been Made to look like the Russian Armored Trains off WW2. And one you can get now, is a Warhammer 40k model or Sci-Fi.
     
  3. Moff Jerjerrod

    Moff Jerjerrod Deity

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    Oh yeah. The railroad unit needs access to iron and coal IIRC. Since I turned off trade to speed up wait time between turns you will not be able to railroad outside of the UK. I overlooked this flaw and will now have to rethink this problem. Maybe adding resources in Canada, Australia, and Africa might help? I'll experiment with this when I get a chance.

    As for the trains, what Anthony said. It's a way to simulate the use of railroads in the war without abusing the free movement over the standard civ rails. I wanted both in the game but made it difficult and time consuming to build railroads, hence the need for a train unit.
     
  4. Moff Jerjerrod

    Moff Jerjerrod Deity

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    jlvfr:

    Thanks for giving my scenario a try! RKP is right about us working together on revamping the navy. I'll certainly take into consideration your comments on the German experience of the naval units. I am weak when it comes to matters naval, but RKP has been a tremendous help!

    RKP:

    If you liked the Indian victory yell wait to you hear some of the American ones. There's some good quips you'd hear a typical sergeant yell to his men in the heat of battle!
     
  5. RKP

    RKP Regent

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    To be honest. I have never been bothered by the wait times between game turns. Always seem kind of short to me. Only say the first 3 to 5 turns were long to me. And I know that came from the AI fleets moving and fighting. Once they thinned out, the turn-around was short. Have to look, but I am sure that Canada had the required iron and coal. And I do know that Africa and India do...I just mined them.
     
  6. RKP

    RKP Regent

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    Moff:

    Canada is short just the coal. It has several deposits of iron. Africa, India, and Australia all have iron and coal. Building a Railroad Construction unit in each location to see if they can build the track. Now I can see your point about the tracks and wanting them to take time. But 184 turns to build a train in Australia? That's a little extreme don't you think? After all you and Anthony told me that the train is nothing more than a transportation unit. I can live with 16 turns in Africa and 24 turns in India. England gets one in 4 to 6 turns. However, Canada can not have one at all. I am assuming that its the coal thing again.

    I suggest that you go and rethink the trade setting. Without it, Canada is kind of screwed in what it can produce. Right now all I can build there is Infantry units. And I can get them built in a shorter time in other locations. Plus there is the hauling them overseas to the needed locations. Other than the auto production units. I am thinking of shutting down production in Canada and just make it my Treasury.

    If you want to keep the trade turned off. Then I suggest that you either make sure that each location of the UK has at least 1 of every needed resource to produce all the units in the game. Or think of doing the Lend-Lease idea and stating it early in the game. The US for example could provide the needed coal to Canada and those other materials it would need for war production.

    Another thing I noticed about the resources is that quite a few of them are located in the impassable mountains or the jungles. Can't even send in a worker to try and mine or build a road to the resource. Was never sure if that was intentional or just could not be placed in any other location when the original mod was made.
     
  7. jlvfr

    jlvfr King

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    Hi again

    I'll admit I didn't read all the thread :(

    Don't have a lot of spare time, so wanted to dive in into the mod asap. And I am "trapping" the german navy. It's just so weird watching "elite" anything at this stage of the war, specially navies. I'd say no one should be more than regular, with some named units being veterans...
     
  8. RKP

    RKP Regent

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    That may be a true feeling about having the game start equally with units. But the fact is that was not the case at all in real life. British BC Hood had an crew what would be considered Elite. So would a couple of the Carriers, Ark Royal and Illustrious They were the pride of the British Navy and so the best of the navy got to serve on them. The American BB Arizona, CV's Saratoga and Lexington were the same. The French had the BB Richelieu, BC's Dunkerque and Strasbourg. The BCs in particular had hand picked crews since the goal for them was to be out at sea hunting down the German Pocket-battleships. The Japanese had the Yamato and Musashi. The Germans had the Bismarck, Graf Spee, and Scharnhorst.

    Now two things to note with the above ships I listed. Most were lost in combat. And with them those elite crews. Thus it took time to replace them. A long time. The second thing is that it took years to get those crews to elite status. The Germans for example had Around the World Cruises from 1935 to 1939 that lasted at least 6 months to give their new crews the required experience to operate the new ships on par if not better than other navies. Each nation had similar programs to improve the crews experience.

    Now I went back to the game and checked each navy out. The British Navy has the BB's Rodney and Nelson as elites. The Japanese have BB's Mutsu and Nagato as elites. The Germans have the BC's Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. CA's Adm. Hipper and Blucher. ACR's Graf Spee, Deutschland, and Adm. Scheer. All American BB's and CV's are Veterans. The rest of the British BB's are Veterans. And the same for the Japanese BB's. If anything, I should go do some research on crew expertise on all navies. So that Moff can decide if more units need to be bumped up to elite at the start or if we really do need to cut back on the Germans a bit.

    Bear in mind that any new builds will only be Veteran at the best So that knocks out the Iowas, Yamato's and Bismarck's. I can only see Carriers or Battleships ever being prewar elites. And I think I now see why Rocotech had the German ships set at elite. So that they could last a bit longer in combat, before they died. And believe me they do die fast if you run them badly or if you trip up the AI.
     
  9. RKP

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    Guys:

    Well, I stopped at turn 37 of 1940 tonight. Some interesting events in this round. On Turn 33, Russia took Erzurum in Turkey. On turn 31, Turkey and Greece made peace. And on turn 32, Russia took Turkey out of the game. Now this is were I tried a different tactic with the Axis AI's. In my past games I would attack mainland Italy. I have tried different locations and force mixes. But the result was always the same. The German AI would drop every thing else and just attack me until I was forced out of Italy. This time I thought I would see if I could give it a brain-fart and maybe bring in some countries into the war that normally stay out of the game all together. First off, I attacked Tirana, Albania on turn 33. And before my turn was over, gave it to Yugoslavia. The one British Infantry unit that was still in the city from the invasion. Teleported to London. Then on turn 34, I attacked Venice and Rimini and took them. Again before my turn was over. I gave them to Spain. The two Infantry units teleported to London. Now comes the interesting part. The German units that were coming in to get me. Are now very confused. They come into the new Spanish zone and then immediately turn around and bug out. Since France is still in the war. The German units can't get through there very easily. And it seems that all Italian units have moved into the remaining cities to protect them. I am getting ready to take Taranto now. This of course is killing off Italy.

    I wish I could fire some shots into two French units. As per the norm, I have a Allied AI unit sitting in the strait between Tunis and Sicily. In this case its the CA Suffren. Not sure how long it will stay there. But it means a 43 turn trip around Africa to attack the other Italian cities with an invasion fleet. Yea...I like to bombard with the ships first. the other French unit is guarding part of the Malay Peninsula. In what I call the no zone. Were it belongs to no one. What that does is keeping me from moving land units down the road to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. Rotten Frog!

    Persia, France , and I are now helping the Chinese kick the Japanese out. But Japan is dug in. Java has been going back and forth between Japan and I. Some of my fleet has finally made it into the area. In one of the Java fights. Japan lost more capital ships, by being in port when I took the city. A BB and 2 Ca's. Sure would like to know which ones I got. Oh, and this is the first time I have ever seen a Chinese tank in the game.

    France is still slugging it out with Germany for Paris and Verdun. France is holding them now. So who knows? America finally surprised me with a troopship in the Atlantic. Sailed in to Sardina with a full load of Motorized Infantry. Just about have it taken. Getting spooked by the German Air Force. Don't see it much at this time. My Whitworth bombers have free run over France and the Low Countries. And any bomber attacks are on the Strasbourg forts. Same goes for the Army side. I am wondering if there is a out of sight reserve ready for me? Or if its building up to attack Russia. Oh well, got to chase those pesky Americans out of Canada again. (snicker)
     
  10. jlvfr

    jlvfr King

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    My main concern wasn't the surface ships, but the subs. Elite subs at the start of the war is simply too strong. I've just watched a stack of 5 U-boats blow up 3 cruisers and 2 tribal-class DDs :(

    Also, could someone please explain the problem with trade settings? Is that why Canada can't build tanks/planes?
     
  11. RKP

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    The trade setting is off at this time in the game. I brought up some issues with it being off for the UK. So yea Canada can not build any tanks or planes right now. Moff is going to look at what he can do to change that. Does not help the game you are playing now. But I am in the same boat as you. Moff did that to shorting the time taken on the turns.

    I will have to look at the subs again. But I do not recall any elite subs as part of the starting prewar fleet. What turn did you notice them being elite? I think some subs start off as Vets and it only takes a few kills to go to Elite.
     
  12. jlvfr

    jlvfr King

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    Right, turn times :( guess we can use Canada to build infantry and artillery then

    I've only played 4 turns. Turn after they attacked first, I right-click on some, and they are alite...
     
  13. RKP

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    Okay, I just went back into the start for the Germany. All the subs start off as Veterans. So you must have had some very heavy fighting at the start. For any of them to hit elite status that quickly. I know how you feel. I have had some games go like that sometimes Playing the Russians in the old Rocotech mod. Germany declared war on me and blew a hole in my line. Tanks came pouring in. When it stopped shoving them in. I had a stack of 60 German mk4 tanks facing me, behind my lines.
     
  14. jlvfr

    jlvfr King

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    :sad::sad::sad:

    I've always had damn bad luck in naval fights. You know the old "spearman wins vs tank" gag? For me, loosing cruisers to trirremes is normal :mad:

    However I still think the subs are too strong. Not on attack, no, but on defence. Example: a Tribal class DD (one of the best in the world) has an attack of 11. The U-boat has a defence of 8. The diference is simply not enough to represent them. The U-boat's defence should not be higher than 4-5, with the italians at 3-4. U-boats were eggshels...

    Btw, why can't I give "GO" orders (key J or G) to naval transports?
     
  15. RKP

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    For the Go...there is a missing component that Moff thought he had fixed, but did not make it in the download here to play the game. So he is going to have to fix that. You can work around that by taking at least 1 warship over the transports you want to move. Then use the move all button to move all the ships in the stack to were you want to go. Hey you need to escort them anyway. (snicker) The stack will move at the slowest speed so when that stack stops. Just click off the excess movement points.

    Now as to the Tribal vs the U-boat. Yes the Tribal was one of the better DD types the British built. But here in the game, it was used as the generic DD for all the prewar Destroyers. so it has the strength of the prewar Destroyers. That would be the A to I Classes. I believe that when you get into the tech tree later on. You will get the newer and stronger classes. And that would have the "real" Tribal released to you to build. Thus that U-boat will become that eggshell.

    Historically, the U-boat was a well built and tough ship. The only other Sub class that was better than the U-boats were our own Gato class of Fleet Subs. Most of the other Navies subs were inferior to the Germans or us. Though in the right hands they were just as deadly.

    Back in the days when I played with miniatures, I would be given that Trireme and go against that Cruiser.....hehehehe. I always got the junk units and would most of the time win.

    One of the things we are fixing is giving the right looking units for the prewar ships and the specific ships will just be that class. That is the plan any way.
     
  16. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    You'll need a lot of new ships for that! Actually there are alot of ships that need to be used for other ships in game, since there is such a wide variety of ship types.

    When I get around to helping Guardian out with his ships, I will continue on the already planned making of some WW2 ships... such as some Japanese ones (already started a couple) and any others I can find models for.

    Which ones I do really depends on what I can find a model for, or something close to it (which I can modify).
     
  17. RKP

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    Thanks Tom:

    Yes finding the right model to use is a very big problem for a game such as this. I hope you did not misunderstand that we are going to do all the ships as they were. What the plan is, is to find one of the models that is available and decide if its generic enough for a particular class of ship. For example the prewar British Destroyers are all 2 Stackers. American prewar are either 1 or 2 Stackers. The French are 3 or 4 Stackers. So using the Russian DD Gnevny as a American 1 Stacker Destroyer would not be out of line. We have already decided to use the Japanese Ostu Submarine as the French Corsair Submarine Surcouf. This is after talking to Wyrmshadow and finding out that there is no workable model for him to use to try and make the Sub.

    I have been able to give Moff a number of Wyrmshadow's ships that he did not have or know about. I have also been able to supply him with the OOD of the respective navies. And the threads you have provided. Have been a big help too. So with the next version of the mod that comes out. You should see the Navies in their proper locations at the start of the war. And at least down to the Light Cruisers. The ships names. The Numbers of each class should be correct and the experience rating should also be in line with that respective Nation. You, Anthony, Jlvfr, and I have brought up issues and questions. That clearly need to looked at to make the mod work even better. And you all have provided some good ideas as well.
     
  18. jlvfr

    jlvfr King

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    *coff* the US had a lot of 4-stackers, and gave 50 to the UK/Canada at the start of the war... :mischief:

    I wish you good luck on getting all those models! Sounds like a heck of a lot of work!
     
  19. RKP

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    The "4 pipers" that you mentioned are the WW1 Clemson-Paulding Classes of over 200 ships built during the war and for a few years after it. By the time of the 2nd WW. That number had been cut down quite a bit. Between Scraping, Conversion, Lend-Lease, and Losses. There were about 70 to 80 of them left in service at the time of Pearl Harbor. The 50 given to the British became known as the Town Class. Given a name of a town that could be found both in England and the United States. The WW1 Destroyers that you have in the game. Is the Clemson-Paulding/Town classes. And are used as the generic WW1 Destroyer for all countries. Except Germany. Since with the exception of the old Pre-Dreadnoughts. Were all new ships built after the war. All the older ships had been scrapped.
     
  20. jlvfr

    jlvfr King

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    About the lend-lease: what about this?
    -make lend-lease a tech available to France/UK/etc
    -after it's discovered, some units dependent on it (Sherman tank, US naval fighters, long range bombers, etc) could be autoproduced in the allied cities.
     

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