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Monarch First-Timer - QSH Marathon

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Teoes, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino Chieftain

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    I'm actually thinking you're squishing too many cities in. Each one costs 10-15 GPT (usually it's double the rate that actually shows up, once you include civic upkeep and increased # of cities maintenance for everywhere else). Some of the low-priority ones won't pay off until you have at least chain irrigation, and probably not until rep and bio. Though if you just leave it as a dot until then, no harm done. But don't make a city worse to make room for those, they're not important enough to worry about now.
     
  2. Um the Muse

    Um the Muse Chieftain

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    Even without Rhino's suggestion, I would consider all of the jungle spots as black dots. Jungle is really bad news. Before you clear it, it's even worse than tundra. Would you settle those cities if all of the jungle squares were covered in tundra?

    Now, once you have IW, calendar, and plenty of workers, you can make honest cities out of them. Please note that doing this yourself will take a long time. Each jungle takes about as long as an improvement like pastures and you're going to want to clear each and every last stinkin' tile of jungle so that you're not suffering from unhealthiness (I didn't notice any jungle pig tiles or other decent food sources nearby).
     
  3. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    Please post a Save, then I'll gonna have a look at it. I cannot do much with those Screenshots, they're just to blurry and too dark for my eyes :( . Then I'll answer your questions.

    Greetz, Sera
     
  4. Teoes

    Teoes Chieftain

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    I've edited that 'plan' post to upload the save file.

    Note again I use BAT mod and can't remember if I did the customasset install or not - so if you're not running it the save might not work. Please let me know if you have issues and I'll try to fix it.

    Thanks for taking the time to look.

    Edit: I've also amended the OP slightly to include an Index. Get me.
     
  5. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    I tried to open the Save, but without BAT it doesn't work, so I cannot look at it.

    So for your next game, you really should do CustomAssets install, I'm sure that then, more players will join in.
     
  6. Teoes

    Teoes Chieftain

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    OK, I'll need to remember and fix that before I get ahead of myself and start the next game.

    I've been tinkering with a few turns on this one tnoght; will play ahead a bit before posting an update but that'll be in a few days, as it's my lady's birthday tomorrow. In the meantime however, anyone care to explain this?
    Spoiler :
    Those 2 chariots (ignore the one in the far top right) haven't moved in some time. Between turns, that barb city just popped into existence from nothing. Do cities spawns work differently to barb unit spawns? Does the hill have something to do with it, having blocked my vision?

    I've been working on the assumption that naught could appear within 2 squares of one of your units and laid out spawnbusters accordingly. This city is 2 squares from the chariot on the left.
     
  7. WelshGandalf

    WelshGandalf Chieftain

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    Yes barb cities obey different rules to unit spawns. I think they can spawn on any tile that you can't actually see.
     
  8. zig_zac

    zig_zac Chieftain

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    Offtop:
    how to install BAT in Custom Assets? Just point it out as installation path? It doesn't work, at least with exe installator.
     
  9. Teoes

    Teoes Chieftain

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    I've had the time to push this game on somewhat. I hit the limit of the plan laid out earlier and by that point.. this game started to become a bit more fun! I felt like some progress was being made so kept going. Yet again I've not had the patience to screendump and go into massive detail of every step (you'll probably thank me for that being as I've now made it to 985AD), but that's likely not going to do me as much good from a learning perspective. Nonetheless I started posting this game so onwards.

    First up, a log of the important proceedings over the last 2,500 years..
    Spoiler :
    • Until he was wiped out, I declared on Kublai every time he made a worker, so that it could be stolen. Our relations soured somewhat I was in the region of -30 for declaring alone! His borders popped again and it was starting to encroach on my turf.
    • The happy cap of 4 was a major drag, especially with the 2 ex-Mongol cities yearning to rejoin their motherland. This really stifled progress for a long time.
    • Workers for a while were kept busy by roading to resources and city sites. The good thing about the situation with the Mongols was that for the longest time, I had more workers than I knew what to do with.
    • 1430BC: GLH completes in Beijing.
    • 1180BC: Guangzhou founded on the offshore island.
    • 1170BC: Writing completes. Great Wall & Mids still available, I've been building them and praying for failgold as both research and commerce are circling the pan.
    • 1070BC: GW failgold comes in – 424g! Research on, teching Mathematics.
    • 910BC: Nanjing founded on NE cow/fish site.
    • 830BC: Xian founded on SW cow/crab site; Mids completed elsewhere for 941 failgold. No more wonders to fail at though!
    • 800BC: Chengdu founded 3 tiles West of Karakorum; right under the W cows. I'd earlier noticed a conspicuous mine left by the Mongols on a flat plain. I smell Iron. Metal! Within my borders! Praise the Gods.
    • 640BC: Currency.
    • 620BC: Oracle far away.
    • 290BC: Calendar – at last.. Commerce and Happy incoming.
    • 280BC: Hangzhou founded on NW rice/clam/dye site.
    • 160BC: GM born – bulbs MC. Seemed the better thing to do than settling him, as my economy was safer at this point.
    • 130BC: IW completes – next Construction. My workers spring into action and start clearing jungle. I build a few axes/swords to go with the upcoming catapults in finally ridding this island of the Mongols and Barbarians.
    • 40BC: Tianjin founded on central dyes.
    • 70AD: Macau founded on W sugar/silk site.
    • 110AD: Hanging Gardens completed elsewhere – 1014 failgold (2379 total).
    • 440AD: MoM completed elsewhere for a measly 105 failgold (2484 total). I'm already totally spoiled by the Mids and Hanging Gardens windfalls.
    • 480AD: Shangdong founded on S gold/fish/crab site.
    • 560AD: Mongols destroyed, Kaifeng founded 1NW of old Turfan site.
    • 625AD: Chichen Itza completed elsewhere - measly 105 failgold (2589 total).
    • 640AD: SoZ completed elsewhere - respectable 640 failgold (3229 total).
    • 670AD: CS teched.
    • 705AD: Alphabet(!) teched, GLib completed; Forges & Barracks in best production sites for an expected demand for troops.
    • 735AD: Ningbo founded 1NE of copper.
    • 815AD: Machinery teched.
    • 825AD: Parthenon completed elsewhere for 2979 failgold!! (6208 total).
    • 845AD: Compass teched.
    • 885AD: Optics teched. Start on a couple of Caravels to meet the neighbours and hopefully circumnavigate.
    • 915AD: Baoding founded on SE iron site.
    • 920AD: Paper teched. Frederick turns up. 1 GS part-bulbs Education; I have another saved who'll probably go on Printing Press.

    So after all that, sadly Fred beat me to circumnavigation. Oh well. I've since met everyone. Fred shares a continent with Sitting Bull and Wang Kon; they're all on good terms. On a separate island sits Saladin and Huayna Capac - tensions are high here, there have been past wars. The 2 continents are as-yet ignorant of each other, but that will not last much longer. Here's the scoreboard so you can see where everyone sits, and a rough idea of the world map:
    Spoiler :
    Here's the relations at-a-glance and tech trade situation (I've already traded HBR, Hunting & 100g with HC for Compass - ticked Saladin off no end):
    Spoiler :
    Relations:
    Spoiler :
    Tech Trades:
    Spoiler :
    SB also demanded my map, which I turned down. At that point I was still hoping to get circumnavigation and didn't want to give that up, but Freddy scored it a couple of turns later. Had I known I wouldn't have gotten it I'd have just traded with SB to please him.

    Here's a list of who's built what wonders. Off the bottom of the screen is Angkor Wat, which SB built in Poverty Point.
    Spoiler :

    Here's the lay of the Chinese lands:
    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :

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    Plus my city overview, military/financial advisors, demographics and tech screens:
    Spoiler :
    City Overview:
    Spoiler :
    Military:
    Spoiler :
    Financial Advisor:
    Spoiler :
    Demographics:
    Spoiler :
    Techs:
    Spoiler :





    Now, if anyone is still reading at this point and needs more information, I can provide mouseovers of the Financial Advisor screen, other screens in the city overview, or views of my cities, or most other things.

    Here's where I know where I've gone wrong:
    • Some city micro. Why is Ningbo working the copper mine instead of growing on to those FP cottages? I'll need to fix that.
    • I've currently got 16 workers for 15 cities. However most cities have had their necessary improvements for some time and I felt 1.5 workers/city passed a certain point just wasn't necessary.
    • I've built some redundant buildings in cities, for example monuments in the newer cities. I'm using Caste System, so why build a monument when I'm working an Artist to get the first border pop?
    • There's probably a lot more. I'll leave better people to point it out.

    How am I doing?
    I think overall not bad, considering. I'm 2 difficulty levels outside my comfort zone and have been struggling with isolation, no religion, no tech trades and low happy caps. I'm middling on the scoreboard; 2nd place for land area and have the most cities. 1st place for Mfg Goods but middling-to-poor everywhere else. I think it's all understandable really - especially troops, I've had little use for those! I look forward to my next Monarch game, hopefully not in isolation, as I expect I'll be doing MUCH better by an equivalent point.

    Where do I go from here?
    Well surely Domination is the only way out. That means Astronomy for Galleons (teching currently) and a massive build-up of troops. I think to take HC first as he's weak and my closest neighbour, then roll into Saladin. From there I'll need to consider how to take the last continent. At the moment I'll be rolling with CKNs, maces and cats (I do realise I'll need more than that to take over the world..). I want Feudalism in trades, which should be possible. I'll also try to score Engineering off WK; Fred has it for trade but I can't meet his asking price.

    I am very tempted to kick this all off asap, rather than waiting for gunpowder/rifling/whatnot. I've done well to mostly keep up until now but fear people could start to pull away from me.

    What do you all think? I don't think this is 'in the bag' as yet - I'll need to work for a victory. But last night when I started playing I did so with resignation. Having met the rest of the world and seeing where I stand with them, I have some hope.

    Thanks - again, any and all input is appreciated.

    P.S. 6,208 failgold?! Wow.

    EDIT: fixed sums. I failmath at calculating failgold.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Teoes

    Teoes Chieftain

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    Offhand I don't know - I'm leaving this until this game is complete but was just going to dig about the forum threads on the mods to find out. Worst case: uninstall/reinstall BTS.
     
  11. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino Chieftain

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    Good job, especially for jumping 2 difficulty levels.

    I'd go after Saladin. He's seriously backward. In particular, no maces. Open borders with HC, land your units there (so you don't need to worry about a beachhead), then take all Sal's lands. (If he'll capitulate early, you might give his cities back and just gift him a bunch of techs, your call.) Then turn around and conquer HC.

    You'll probably want to aim for naval dominance, so you can send all your troops on offense and just keep 1 defender per city at home. If you do, keep an eye out for anyone that gets Chemistry. Chem + Astro lets them mess up your galleons. You'll probably want to put your EPs against whoever is the tech lead, so you can see their research.

    By the way, with yearning to rejoin the motherland: That's based on culture. Build a library there and it should stop after a couple border pops.

    Also, good job with the running tally and the screenshots. And I think your math was off, and you really had over 6k failgold. Isn't failgold awesome?
     
  12. zig_zac

    zig_zac Chieftain

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    Really the last offtop:

    I thought about it, because it's second time I hear that advice. And because it would be cool.

    Yet I've searched moding forum and I believe you can't install BAT in Custom Assets, so somebody with clean BtS could play it.

    You can do it with BUG mod. (BAT is BUG + improved graphic basically) This is probably the source of confusion.
     
  13. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino Chieftain

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  14. zig_zac

    zig_zac Chieftain

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    Thanks Rhino. I'll try it.
     
  15. Teoes

    Teoes Chieftain

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    I'm putting this one to bed, unfortunately.

    I built up an army and shuttled it over to HC's lands with a view to declaring on Saladin per OLR's suggestion. Saladin declared on HC, which was nice for a distraction and I took 3 of Sala's cities. HC peacevassaled to me and unwisely I kept pushing through Saladin's lands to conquer him - ran my economy into the ground and was going bankrupt when he still had a handful of cities.

    Reloaded an earlier save and took enough of Saladin's cities to make him capitulate. Took a few turns to consolidate and reinforce, then shipped all my troops over to WK's lands to repeat the earlier process by declaring on Fred. By the time I was a few cities into him however he was retaliating with airships, sinking my reinforcement galleons with frigates (I was teching chemistry so sloooowly) and he was teching through replaceable parts. That whole continent has been banding together the whole time; my army's outgunned and I can't reinforce with frigates in the water.

    Mostly though I'm tired of slogging through this game and and want to try a different scenario! Thanks and apologies to everyone who's given this some attention and advice. I think this was a tough introduction to Monarch (hopefully people won't disagree with that sentiment too much!) and with luck I've learned enough from this to make the next attempt much more straightforward.
     
  16. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino Chieftain

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    Post shots of your cities and econ screen so we can help you see what went wrong to improve for next game.
     
  17. Teoes

    Teoes Chieftain

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    Cities:
    Spoiler :
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    City Overview:
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    Demographics:
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    Financial Advisor:
    Spoiler :

    Tech "Trades":
    Spoiler :

    Don't let this screen fool you - no-one's trading me anything.


    Looking at it, it's easy to spot where I've gone wrong. I've not developed the land nearly well enough. I can see how it happened, too. When I was scraping along with a low low health/happy cap, the land was adequately improved. But come Astronomy, contact with AIs and the resource trades that would allow me to grow my cities, my focus was on building troops for war, with my cities either remaining stagnant or growing on to unimproved tiles. Production, Commerce and Research are all stuck in the dark ages and it's a result of me not paying them enough attention. My mind was stuck in Noble (and not isolated), where progress is fast and steady and I wouldn't have let my workers sit idle like I did.

    For what it's worth I did play on a bit; the army in Fred's lands was enough to get him to capitulate. I took a brief period of peace to whip out more trebs, replace my galleons and ship reinforcements over; but to end the game I'd need to wade through WK/SB's protective rifles - whatever I could choose to tech to they'll outpace me.
     
  18. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    Ok, first cities have Aqueducts though not needing them. The next city that's large and has FPs and could need one, doesn't have one. Then your cities have too little Cottages (to few Workers probably) you're working bad tiles (i. e. plains-hill, coast) and your HE-City has a Library :D . Then you're working even unimproved tiles and built way to many farms and way to little Cottages.
     
  19. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino Chieftain

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    I think you summed up the problem well: Undeveloped tiles. And I understand moving on. But knowing how to handle this situation might be helpful, so here's what I'd do:

    -Whip whatever needs whipping. A few markets? Basically any infrastructure you need.
    -Swap to Caste System. You have a bunch of cities with good food but nothing to do with it. That's what Caste was made for. Run lots of scientists.
    -Swap HC for Nationalism, tech Constitution. (If he won't swap, put a few turns into Nat until he will.)
    -Sell techs to Saladin. Yeah, it'll catch him up, but you need the cash, and he's not your real rival anyway.
    -Switch production to build wealth, maybe some failgold. Whatever it takes to get to Rep.
    -Once you have Rep / Caste, your economy will pick up again.

    Any time you find yourself with a bunch of garbage tiles, this is a good option. The other option is to make a bunch of workshops and build wealth.

    Like I said, it might help for next time.
     

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