Monarch issues -help!

[Green_Tooth]

I've read the tutorial for running a specialist economy, and I actually pulled it off a couple of times with Alexander (because he is philosophical, and the agressive allows for some early warfare).

However, even in games I won, I had trouble setting up a Great Engineer city (GP and GS were no problem).

So this is what I do:

- Take Gandhi (industrial, figure I can make the Pyramids)
- researched BW and found copper
- trained a worker and built a road to copper
- train settler and settle near copper mine

Now, this is where I run into problems. The barbarians are just kicking my ass. They have already settled two cities near mine and they are marching into my territory - relentlesly!

I wanted to settle a third city near stone, build a road to the capital and start the Pyramids, but all I'm doing is training axeman and fighting the barbarians. In the meantime Oracle (which I also wanted to build) has been completed "in the distant land".

Now, I tried just going for the wonders as soon as I settle the second city, but the barbs just f*%* me up by the time I do that.

What do you do on Monarch after you have your first two cities? If you settle your second city to secure bronze or horse, how soon before you can go for a third city and the wonders? How do you deal with barbs?

It just seems there isn't enough time on Monarch to deal with everything, while the other civs have a head start and faster research. Do you HAVE to steal a worker from someone?

 

[Sian]

Vanilla ... as far as i know Vanilla is more tricky at Prince+ than BTS

GE Farms is likely the most tricky GP Farm to make (if you're going after 'pure' farms) ... you practially have to build an early forge and run a engineer in it ... Pyramids while nice is not a good thing to jump before you're feeling safe (either by Axe's/archers/chariots or Great Wall) or know that you can handle it

 

[Green_Tooth]

Thanks for the reply, Sian. I understand what you're saying. But you know how it is; I'm affraid if I take the extra 6-12 turns for another couple of archers that I'll be too late for the Pyramids.

I might go and purchase BTS. I'm a little bored with vanilla anyway.

 

[UWHabs]

Pyramids it varies a lot. Some people have posted pictures of the pyramids not being built even into the far ADs. Some games they'll go pretty early, but some games I know I've had time to build about 4 cities, expand out, and then build the pyramids (assuming I'm industrious and/or have stone). I'm not sure how it goes in Vanilla, but I know in BtS, Great Wall and Great Lighthouse always go before the Pyramids, and often another one like Artemis and even the Oracle will usually get build first.

 

[JBossch]

Why do you feel you need a GE farm? It is really difficult to run enough Engineer specialists until the late game to make this a viable strategy. Typically, you just build as many engineer points-producing wonders in your best GP farm and hope for the best. Typically, the GSs are more important in the mid-game anyway.

There is, of course, a strat for getting an early GE to either rush the mids or bulb machinery (usually for a xbow/cho-ko-nu rush). You can find descriptions of it elsewhere but it basically involves getting a quick second city, building the oracle in the capital for MC, then chop/whipping a forge in the second city fast enough to run an engineer so it pops before the GP in the capital.

As for your general question about Monarch, it sounds like you feel its necessary to do all things at once. You can REX, you can rush an opponent, you can build wonders, but you may not be able to do all three anymore like you could on noble. You dont necessarily need oracle and the mids. As far as the barbs go, you can get BtS and build the GW, though this shouldnt be necessary. Think of the cities the barbs settle as opportunities in many cases. They are easy to capture, provide gold and XP for your troops, and (if they are founded in the right places) free cities. You shouldnt need to be constantly training axemen to deal with barbs, especially after they begin to settle and calm down significantly. A few units fogbusting on hills will save you a huge headache. Chariots are especially good for this due to their speed.

GL!

 

[futurehermit]

Focus on military and expansion first. Economy second. Copper/horses or archery are necessary for your survival and must take priority (or great wall if you have expansions).

Pyramids are nice for running a SE, but not necessary. So, if you are not industrious and/or do not have stone, then don't worry about them. Also, do not attempt an SE if the map does not dictate it. If you do not have cities with high food surplus (multiple food specials) then just cottage up, especially in ideal commerce cities (lots of grassland, snaky rivers, floodplains, etc.).

If you do have the conditions for a SE (some production cities and some cities with high food surplus for running specialists) then, once you have secured some territory and are able to defend it, run specialists (scientists if you are going for pure teching). This may involve swapping into caste system and pacificism. Mercantilism and representation once available. Once you have teched enough (usually to the required military techs) then swap into warfare civics and expand your empire.

Rinse, repeat until you win by domination. Alternatively, if you feel you have a large enough empire to win via space or some other method, then you can farm everywhere and run max specialists or cottage-over your empire and transition into a cottage economy (not coincidentally, the cottage civics come into play mid-game).

 

[zizzeus]

I was going to say the same thing about fogbusting. You can do it with scouts and warriors. They're cheap and won't hurt your REX time since you have to build them anyway to scout. Simply park them on a forested hill with some visibility and cut your barb problem down a lot. One or two chariots to deal with the archers and axmen who sneak by and you're set. The barbs rarely send in spearmen, and if they do, the warriors have decent odds while defending (you may need two). The chariots are much more useful in BTS because of their bonus vs. axmen, who had no counter in ancient ago Vanilla. You shouldn't need archery until the higher levels, where you will need it almost every game.

As for the GE farm, I suspect you're talking about my article. It is pretty tough to farm engineers in the early game, but you can get at least two provided you get that forge up early and snag the Hanging Gardens (after the Pyramids). You WILL need stone to accomplish this. Just be patient, they'll come out when they're ready! I typically run scientists as well, meaning that I won't get an engineer for certain, but it's not like another scientist is bad and they come more often. Landing a philosophical leader helps a lot too.

 

[Green_Tooth]

Thanks everybody. I think you're right when you say that I am trying to do everything at once. That is probably my main problem.

I have been practicing SE because I wanted to try a different strategy. I have been kicking AI's butt on Emperor, mostly by using financial leaders and building cottages (Incan - agressive/financial).

Maybe the best idea for SE is to take a philosophical leader, let others build the wonders and just take it from them. Just did it to Gandhi and took Pyramids, Oracle, Stonehenge, and Panthenon in his capital, which is also his holy city!

It's a lot of fun to have 3-4 super cities with a bunch of settled great people in them. The problem is when it's mid game and you still don't have your "super science" city. That's why the Pyramids are key, because they allow representation so any specialist will give you 3 science per.

Anyway, thanks for the advice everybody. I appreciate it.