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[BTS] Monarch Shadow Game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by SaintSaens_Op61, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    Hello everyone,

    I've been reading the civfanatics forums for a while, but now I have decided to start a shadow game. I can consistently win on Noble, and occasionally on Prince. I haven't attempted Monarch before, so I thought that it would be a good place to start. Since I usually play with late-game leaders such as Washington and Bismarck, this game I'll play as the Incas.

    Game details:
    Continents, Large size
    Normal game speed
    No huts or random events
    BTS 3.19


    Spoiler Here is my start: :

    First Turn Screenshot.png

    If I move my settler two tiles down, then I would have the corn, pigs, and two golds, as well as the city being on a hill.


    Thanks in advance for all of the help and advice!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    CTRL-R to turn on resource bubbles, it will help us a lot to see what is going on.
     
  3. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    Spoiler Start with resource bubbles: :
    2020-08-05.png
     
  4. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    That's an incredibly strong start - almost too strong for learning purposes. Pigs, wet corn, double gold, Inca, lots of choppable forests, and a suspicious non-forest tile SW of your settler that might well be a strategic resource. It's always worth noting when you see a tile in your starting capital BFC completely surrounded by forests, but it itself is not forested; good chance you've got something like horses there.

    Corn and gold are two of the best resources for a starting capital, so you'd be crazy not to try to catch both. Which means settling 2S or 2S1E (on the Quechua). If settler moves SW -> SE he'll be in position to settle next turn while scouting some of the tiles further west; Quechua can move 1E onto the plainshill to look further east. Then if neither of them find anything else good you settle there on turn 1, while if you find something really good to the east but not west you spend one more turn moving 1E to settle.

    There will almost certainly be a potential city site somewhere ~3-4 tiles north of your capital sharing the wet corn with it if you don't find anywhere else better, so that's the direction I'd go scouting first with my Quechua after founding the city - curl around E to NE to N of the capital seeing what's up.

    The resources here need Agriculture (already got), Mining, and Animal Husbandry. And the large food surplus plus lots of forests make Bronze Working a definite priority. So Animal Husbandry, Mining, and BW are definitely your first three techs. Wet corn is your single best tile and you want to improve it first; that means about 15 turns building a worker, 1 turn moving, 5 turns building a farm. Animal Husbandry and Mining should both be finished by then regardless of the order you do them, so the exact order isn't very significant. I'd probably go Animal Husbandry first just to reveal horses so I could start thinking about my strategic options as my Quechua scouts. AH -> Mining -> BW.

    Default worker - warrior - settler build order looks fine to me. If you feel like doing some extra math, trying to optimize which tiles you work on which turns so you finish the Quechua and hit size 2 at the same turn, as early as possible, might get your settler out a turn or two faster and put you slightly ahead for the game. Shouldn't be necessary, just an option.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    sorry Huskers get no help here ...:D ..jk

    Standard map size would be better..but not huge deal

    I'm less enthusiastic about gold in start cap than coanda, but it does not hurt for sure. If I was settling for some gold, I'd go for the Plains Hill (PH) 2S1E of the corn. SIP is not a bad option though

    Move Q 1NE first or 1SE if SIP is what you will do.

    I"m not sold on AH though right now and would rather get to BW asap.
     
  6. reflec

    reflec Chieftain

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    imo having a start this good defeats the purpose of a shadow game
     
    Fish Man likes this.
  7. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    I think you should continue and play through this very good start because it's your first Monarch game. Also just because your capital is in such a great location doesn't mean you'll have good land for your other cities or good neighbours. It may well balance out. My advice is play on...
     
  8. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    Lol. You must not want to get Frostbite. :lol: Who do you root for?

    As for the strong start, I think that I will play it. I am not the most consistent at Prince, and I've never attempted Monarch.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  9. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    I moved my Settler 2S and my Quechua 1E. Should I settle here or move again?

    Spoiler :

    2020-08-06.png
     
  10. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    I say settle in place. Research Mining then BW. You can mine the sheep and you definitely want to work the Gold mines ASAP and not whip away the citizens working them. AH can wait until later. Stone is definitely nice to have for Pyramids.
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Spoiler :
    Already did in the ‘96 Orange Bowl :lol: Actually have a lot of respect for him. He will be a great coach for yall


    Yeah, that was a nonsense comment above. Start does not matter, its the process that matters. Def play this
     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Probably should have been clearer before. I don’t like that spot at all and strongly disagreed with Coanda. If you are going to waste 2 turns to move it should have an immediate impact like bonus center tile - PH or more food. Non-river desert gold does not justify this move imo- you will barely work one of them for a long time, if at all.
    Better to SIP than do that
     
  13. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    Now I have two questions:
    1. Is there any reason to build anything besides a worker?
    2. Any advice on where to explore with the Quechua?

    Spoiler :

    2020-08-06 (1).png
     

    Attached Files:

  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I would have restarted
     
  15. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    Didn't see that message.
     

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  16. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    @lymond

    To be fair, he only wasted one turn settling 2S of original position. Even if he works 1 gold mine for a while, isn't it still really worth it for the extra commerce? Besides this cap will have enough food to work both Gold mines. It has wet corn (+4 :food:) and hill pigs (+3 :food:) . This isn't a city a to whip and those Gold mines means he will get through the tech tree very quickly. Not to mention Fin as well for +1 commerce just makes this obscene from a research point of view.

    I was thinking Mining/BW and AH later but I may actually go AH/Mining/BW. Kind of undecided. While the city builds a Worker for 15 turns it can't grow to work the gold mine and it's good to build a Pasture on those Pigs right after improving Corn because it increases the food surplus even more. Then by the time the city grows to size 3 and 4 you add the Gold mines. Yes delaying BW delays chopping but it's worth considering. Most games you can't chop before around turn 30 anyways and the early commerce is huge. When the city reaches size 3 and works one Gold build a Settler.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    True...I think my thought process was still in the mode of settling the PH which would be two moves. I do think this city is great for whipping, especially with AH first, which actually is probably best in the current position since one can improve gold while teching to BW. My point really is that I did not think moving for the golds was all that strong to warrant the move. Hmm...now settling on the wine woulda been nice.

    An early strong gold tile in cap can be nice with food, but cap is usually going to whip with food and then work some scientists so really not much time to get much benefit from working gold directly. Gold can always be settled next. I find focus on gold in the starting cap tends to slow me down more than help as it forces me to think about working that gold. The extra commerce is nice but otherwise it is a weak tile.
     
  18. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    @SaintSaens_Op61 BUG/BULL mods can be found here:

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/civ4-bts-unaltered-gameplay-bug-bat-and-bull.268/

    Install with Custom Assets option. BULL has directions inside on where to copy files.


    With SIP, I would go BW first. Farm the corn and mine the pigs. Qs to size 3 and start settler. If BW not in after pigs are mine, you can farm the wine, which is not a bad tile early with the commerce. But start chopping as soon as BW is in.

    First Q should scout in radius around your cap..no more than 5 to 10 tile away and then spawnbust city spots. Interested in food around those golds, and the stone.

    Assuming you go Mining first, please note that it is recommend to select/deselect a tech the first 5 turns. This has a couple of benefits. First, game stores beakers the first 5 turns of the game. If you meet AIs that start with the target tech - say Mining - you get a small bonus on the tech for knowing an AI that owns it. Also, it allows time for a bit more scouting that may change tech decision. If going AH, this trick is irrelevant since AIs don't start with AH, just the first tier techs, so you can just tech AH directly, same with BW if you started with Mining for example.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  19. SaintSaens_Op61

    SaintSaens_Op61 Chieftain

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    @lymond I've heard of the BUG/BULL mods, but I don't really know what they do. Will I still be able to play multiplayer games with people who don't have them downloaded?
     
  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    The custom assets option means you don't load the mod, the stuff is just there. MP requires that all players have the same assets. Not sure how custom assets effects this since I don't play MP. But I do know that if using a "standalone" mod, then all players must be on the same version of the mod. Custom Assets is not "standalone". The "standalone" install option of BUG is for MP. Simple solution is once you create your "BUG" version of Custom Assets, then rename it to "Custom Assets - BUG" > load BTS again and new fresh CA folder will be generated > switch between the to by renaming them.

    "Out of Sync" issues are caused by different assets when playing MP.

    BUG/BULL greatly enhances the user interface/info in the game, with a few other nice features like auto-cancel worker prechops and the dotmap tool. Most everyone round here uses it.
     

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