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Monarch Specialist Economy Walkthrough

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by futurehermit, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006
    I'm not a details guy, so that is never going to happen. I am a lazy micro-manager and really just care about the end results. I used to play a lot of RTS games and when people would watch replays of my games that I would post people would often say "great macro...if you could micro too you would be a great player" :lol: I will let other people nitpick the details in my and their games, if they wish. I just want to provide an overview/gist so that players new to SE can get a sense of how they might go about it.

    EDIT: I will try, though, to be a bit more detailed where I can :)

    Oh, it is possible, no doubt about it. I used to gun for pyramids in every game. I just have my doubts about how optimal it might be. My general rule of thumb when I am not industrious is that I will consider a particular wonder if I have the corresponding resource for it, or if I otherwise have a particular use for it. So, if I have stone, I'll consider pyramids and other stone-based wonders. If I have marble, ToA becomes an early candidate, oracle too. For a philosophical leader, obviously GL is a prime candidate whether you have marble or not. If you establish a tech lead later in the game, some of the later wonders can be assigned to your IW or high-production city without too much worry. With a philo leader though, if I am going pure SE, the goal is simply high food, high population in lots of cities, so I can run lots of specialists. This generates lots of great people--more than a single gpfarm--which can be put to use in various ways.
  2. Anomander Rake

    Anomander Rake Warlord

    Sep 4, 2008
    I just tried this on Noble.

    It's not so easy with no horses, no copper and no archers

    Memphis captured by barbs 2 turns before completing the ToA...
  3. Stewie0416

    Stewie0416 Who Cares?

    Jul 19, 2008
    Wow, I am learning a lot from this. Thanks for showing what cycles should look like!
  4. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Dec 24, 2007
    Upstate, NY
    Well written fh. You and I have a lot of style alike, especially with this leader.

    Do a GLH based TRE next! Willy or Hannibal!
  5. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

    Feb 17, 2007
    Jacksonville, FL
    I guess Willy might be a little better for GLH economies cuz of the dike, but I've always preferred Hannibal myself. Charismatic gets your cities bigger that much sooner, which gets bigger trade route income. Plus the extra TR from the UB has great synergy, and comes a lot earlier than the dike.

    Oh and NC are fun too, I can't believe I used to shun mounted units!
  6. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006
    Defending your empire is 1st priority. If I didn't have horses then I would've gone for copper. If I didn't have copper, then I would've gone archery. Teching hunting-archery might've cost me a wonder potentially, but that wonder wouldn't be much good if barbs crushed my empire! Alternatively, I may have considered chopping out the GW, but I really didn't want a GSpy in this particular game. Fog-busting with warriors, fortified on hills, can also help with barb defense early on :)

    Glad to hear it. I haven't showcased the full power of cycles yet, more to come!

    Thanks! I might do a TRE down the road, but I think a philo SE is going to be my next venture. I find walkthroughs easier to do than SGs, because I find that SGs take too long. My interest in a game only lasts a short time and then I am on to the next game. So, walkthroughs are well-suited for me and I might do a few more.
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008
    Ok guys.

    Picture an Angry Video Game Nerd rant. That's about what I went through.

    I got up to 1840ish AD. Now, I disabled both autosaves and the ability to alt-tab to save memory, substantially enhancing the game's performance for me. But this comes at a price. You see, if you use some garbage BS nonsense that you never took off when you got your HP machine, you will get an "updates ready for your computer" thing, which of course minimized the program. Bull @#$%.

    But, I think the shadow went well enough to declare the game over anyway.

    To 1 AD
    Spoiler :

    I settle in place. Tech order is AH, POTTERY, Mining, BW (since we have horse to counter weak sauce monarch barbs).

    I throw down my only other commerce city, the cow/wheat/bronze site with flood plains galore, and passively run scientists. I make an early run at monarcy after going mysticism/writing, then head for code of laws:

    I don't care about the religion much but it does add another monastery to the bureaucracy capitol so it's not useless.

    I get civil service in the BCs and flip into that. I'm working on getting justinian to friendly and will settle city #5 next turn. Pumping some WC's to take barb cities also.

    To 1834 AD / estimated UN 1900 ish.

    Spoiler :
    I throw up a late glib since it's still around in my cap, then put NE there.

    I get a nice take from barbs:

    Note that after my first 3 cities, every other city is configured to hammers, using workshops, hills, and farms as needed. If they have nothing to build unit wise, they build wealth.

    Lib/easy taj with marble:

    Justinian hates asoka and takes him out/caps him:

    I just sit there, teching away. I meet the other AIs, spread buddhism to ragnar since ragnar/izzy don't have religion yet. Sadly izzy gets taoism (I founded it really late, the ais were awful slow here even for monarch) and ignores all else, but rag converts at least.

    I keep joao at pleased where he doesn't declare and am basically immune to war most of the game, so I just tech:

    And finally open a beatdown while feeding izzy UN techs. Killing joao + some of lincoln + ragnar/justinian votes = UN win.

    Joao didn't even have rifles in his cities yet, and lincoln wasn't teching away either. Marines off dest/transport vs rifle is not hard. Game over on a technicality.

    I'm re-enabling autosaves.
  8. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006
    Played up til 1545AD. Update will be posted on Thurs or Fri.
  9. assass1n

    assass1n Warlord

    Nov 16, 2008
    The Image or video has been moved or deleted - Photobucket
    TMIT fix it :(
  10. Yesod

    Yesod Warlord

    Nov 4, 2007
    Yeah, I suppose it might be my end, but your images got "moved or deleted"...Guess it's not your day today. :(
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008
    It's fixed. Don't use swear words on photo bucked albums, or the forum will censor it and screw up the link :rolleyes:.
  12. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006

    Spoiler :
    I only read your first spoiler so as not to influence the remainder of my game. I can see why you would settle Memphis where you did, but why not settle the delicious production spot to the W before settling north like you did?
  13. Hereditary Rule

    Hereditary Rule Warlord

    Dec 13, 2007
    This is a cool thread. 2 different approaches, same game, easy to follow. Maybe I'm a bit dense but I have a really hard time following all the cookbook threads. Maybe it's too many different games/players.

    Spoiler :
    I noticed in your later screenshots a ton of workshops in the northern cities. Are you still getting all of your beakers from southern cities or a bureaucracy capital? Did you just slow down science at this point?
  14. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

    Dec 19, 2001
    How about a Golden Age fueled SE game with a Phi leader? (I guess that would be a Hybrid economy based mostly on CE however).
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008
    @ futurehermit:

    Spoiler :
    I settled where I did to block our eastern neighbor. Early huts popped a lot of units (I'd rather have techs or gold but at least it wasn't barbs) so I had everything explored. He was already settling in my direction (he beat me to the site to the east of the city you're questioning) so I bit the bullet and sealed him off. He's really peaceful/doesn't declare at pleased so I felt good about getting him to friendly through religion/possibly civic, and just slowly filling in my land.

    @ Hereditary Rule

    Spoiler :
    Yeah, I had a ton of workshop cities. In fact, the only two cottage cities were the capitol and my first city after that. Everything else was geared for hammers.

    Hammer cities are easy to set up. They get the needed buildings quickly, then can build wealth as needed. I was getting around 1100 BPT in bureaucracy while building wealth to tech, but dropped it down after nearing industrialism to put up factories/coal plants. I also switched into nationhood/state property which slowed tech further but improved the workshops.

    A lot of the things I do I start doing out of laziness.

    At the end I was getting several marines/turn.
  16. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006
    @ TMIT: Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. I just thought you might squeeze that one in there first, since it is such a desirable spot. :)
  17. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

    Dec 5, 2005
    I'm awfully rusty, but wanted to throw my map into the mix, for comments, questions, and criticism...

    Spoiler 1120 AD :

    Taken at the beginning of the turn where my swords and cats raze one last city, then end the war against Justinian. Play is... well, pretty damn unfocused.

    Early tech path: Animal Loving, Mining (popped just after I started researching it), Mysticism, Bronze Working, Pottery (?), Writing - the last discovered on turn 50. Then a push up for Oracle -> Code of Laws.

    Like the others, The proximity of the horses was enough that I didn't over worry about defense in the early going, although I was a bit later than I should have been, having forgotten the impact that StoneHenge would have on progress toward my second border pop.

    I pushed east first, on the theory that the marble location would be most tempting to the AI (compare my Memphis location to Angora in futurehermit's game), with fog busters watching the west. Barbs took the location in the south west corner, but were otherwise a non issue.

    Rather than making a cow/wheat/marble super city on the river (Memphis, in future hermits game), I instead decided to split that location, on the grounds that the green tiles to the south west were too nice to waste, and that my actual location would be a good enough military pump in the short term. Classic short term for long term trade off - although I'm not convinced I exploited it properly.

    War with Justinian began when I decided the two coastal cities were ripe. A couple more just east of the desert were razed along the way.
  18. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006

    Ok, a few things are really important to understand about this round. First, I spent most of this round crippled gold-wise. You will see a few examples from screenshots, but I am not going to show 10s of pics of me swapping tiles onto merchants and commerce. It is important to understand that cottages are commerce improvements. Without them, low commerce, which often means scraping gold together during the difficult horizontal expansion period of the middle-ages, early renaissance. If you are able to sack a lot of cities, then you can coast through on that. I wasn't able to do this, and I only had Asoka as a trading partner, so my options for accessing gold were limited. So, I swapped onto merchants and commerce tiles a lot this round to eek by. The key here is simply to survive until you hit a point where you can purely use your muscle (i.e., land advantage) to overrun the remaining opponents. They might outtech you in the long run, but not if you take over their empire first!

    Another thing to understand is that I am really playing this particular map suboptimally. I am on a small continent. Usually for me that means I will go for space race, which also usually means that I will cottage up the empire. If I had cottaged up this empire I wouldn't have to scrape together any gold. I'd be rolling in it. However, my production would be much, much lower until I had US and a lot of matured cottages. This particular map calls for the cottage route, it really does. If I had a larger continent with more opponents to steamroll through, then the mass-farm approach would, arguably, be more optimal. However, this is just a walkthrough, and not an attempt at optimal play, so understand that my goal here is simply to finish Asoka, scrape gold to survive, and then mass-produce an army and a navy to squash my overseas opponents during the renaissance era for the domination victory.

    Alright, with those caveats in mind, onto the round:

    1160AD: Military advisor and power graph:

    I don't have hardly any military to speak of, yet I am on par with Asoka power-wise. This is going to be a romp. I draft 3 maces per turn and whip/build more maces and catapults.

    1180AD-A friendly Asoka sees me gearing up for war and makes his best offer:

    Tempting, especially because he has been nothing but friendly, but I am a blood-thirsty warmongerer this game, so I decline.

    1200AD-Reject Asoka's request for Nationalism. Give him the opportunity to draft? I think not.

    1220AD-I complete another national wonder:

    It won't help so much this war, but it will be great when I gear up for an overseas war. Drafting center.

    1230AD-Only a few turns later, my military and power situation is much different:

    However, my economy is on the brink and I have to address it or else face a strike. So, first off, I cycle back (no anarchy):

    I have a lot of unhappiness in my cities from whipping and drafting:

    I need to raise the culture slider a bit, but I need to afford everything as well. So, I run a mass-merchant recovery:

    With the economy critical but stable, I declare on Asoka and sack Mycenia--told you it was only a temporarily lost city. I really need the conquest funding to assist my economy. A major military-industrial complex I have going on:

    1250AD-Our 11th GPers, a GS is born. I use him on an academy in my capital in preparation for also landing Oxford there:

    1260AD-I kind of mess up. I didn't notice a chariot and archer that Asoka had on the SW fringe of my empire. I had one war chariot guarding Phrygian, but it wasn't enough and I lost the city for a second before a second nearby warchariot took it back. Cost me some buildings. Sigh. Optics is in, start constitution. Raze Agra and Bombay. Plan to resettle Bombay 1E in a better location. Agra was a hopeless/needless city. With the spoils of war giving me a float, I remove a bunch of merchants empire-wide and replace with scientists and priests to bump up my tech rate a bit. Some before and after pics:




    Gunning for a GProph, but it doesn't work out for me.







    1270AD: Complete another wonder:

    This further takes the edge off the critical economic situation.

    1280AD: Raze Vijayanagara, poorly placed, plan to resettle

    1290AD: Our 12th GPers, another GM, who I settle in Constantinople, our future WS city:

    1310AD-Sack Pataliputra; GG #2 is born, settle him in Memphis our HE city

    1330AD-Sack Delhi:

    Unfortunately, Asoka never built any shrines for us, alas.

    1350AD-Finally meet our first overseas neighbour:

    Lincoln. I give him CS for mono/arch/HBR/map/50 and also OB with him. The map reveals that he has his own little piece of the world and also that Issy is nearby. She is destined to be an enemy because I am not switching out of Buddhism:

    To be continued...
  19. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006
    1370AD-Meet another AI, but not Issy yet:

    Ragnar, he's horribly backwards tech-wise. Turns out that the three of them are all part of a confuncian love-fest. The only tension is between Lincoln who harbours resentment toward Ragnar for declaring war on him at some time in the past. Love, love, love.

    I trade Ragnar Drama for 30 to get him pleased and OB with him. Then I found Elephantine:

    Then we get our 13th GPerson, a GArtist. I save him for my intercontinental invasion:

    Then I sack Varanasi and eliminate Asoka:

    At this point, in order to assist my critical economy, I delete all excess maces and catapults. I will replace them with renaissance units later. For now, they are just costing me money.

    Postwar empire:

    Postwar economy:

    I'm scraping by, which is all I need right now.

    I have a lot of infrastructure to build, so I swap to OR to help with this (no anarchy):

    1380AD-Constitution in, go for Printing Press
    1390AD-Meet Issy:

    Give her Col for 40 to get her cautious. Yes, the AI is horribly backwards this game. All the more reason to proceed toward a domination victory. Found Alexandria (I am in the process now of settling the remainder of my continent):

    A diplo screenshot of the Confucian lovefest and Lincoln's hurt feelings toward Ragnar:

    1410AD-Reject Issy's demand for $$$

    We're going to be enemies, so I am just not going to bother with her. However, I do open borders with her. Sack Assyria (Barb city):

    1420AD-Trade Lincoln Dye/Cow/Rice for Gold/Deer/Clam; also, phi/paper/drama for engineering/theology/30

    1440AD-We prove the world is round. Will help with navy invasion.

    1470AD-Reject another demand from Issy.
    1480AD-Found Pi-Ramesses:

    Also, trade gems to Lincoln for 19/turn, which we sorely need.

    1490AD-Finish PP, go for democracy; complete two national wonders:

    Oxford in capital:

    Shot of our capital with Oxford:

    Not a ton of beakers, but enough to get us by, which is all we need.

    Forbidden Palace:

    This really helped take the edge off our critical economy. I built it in the middle of the former Justin/Asoka empires.

    Found Giza:

    Also, we get our 14th GPerson, a GProphet:

    1505AD-Use our GProphet to build:

    Hinduism is already in 10 cities and I plan to spread it around to further take the edge off our gold situation.

    1515AD: Printing Press to Lincoln for Guilds/120. I don't like feeding my biggest competitor techs, especially on the rifling path, but the trades are helping me too and he will be my first target.

    1530AD-Democracy in, start banking

    1540AD-Found Byblos:

    Found Akhetaten:

    Meet our last AI, Joao:

    Turns out he is to our NW, backwards, with no real friends. He will likely be our last target, if necessary. I trade him Drama for 20 and OB to get him pleased.

    1545AD-Banking in, decide to go for Economics since it looks like I will get there first for the GM. I also swap into mercantilism and pacificism.

    After economics, I will go for a renaissance military tech (still thinking about it) and look to trade for astro from Issy, who will get it soon. At that point, I will cycle back into full military production and prepare to invade the USA.

    To be concluded...

    Attached Files:

  20. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

    Apr 3, 2006
    ...Concluding (part 1):

    The gist of the endgame:

    -Didn't care about research all that much. I stick in PARCS, but could easily have just swapped into military civics, which would've probably been more optimal, especially PS to combat WW, which started to add up after awhile of me slamming Rifles into enemy cities without siege or spies.

    -I had all I needed to win. A huge stack of rifles and the muscle to produce more and more and more and more. Goal is to wipe out Lincoln and then see if I need to attack someone else to win via domination. Here goes...

    1560AD-1st to Economics and get a GM; settle in Constantinople. Also, our 15th great person is born, a GP, who I also settle in Constantinople; start Gunpowder:

    1570AD-Finish gunpowder, start Replaceable Parts
    1585AD-Finish RP, start rifling; reject Ragnar demand for HR
    1590AD-Lincoln declares war on Ragnar (payback, I take it)
    1600AD-Found Hieraconpolis:

    1605AD-Finish Rifling; reject Ragnar request to declare on Lincoln...not yet, Ragnar
    1610AD-Lib/PP to Issy for Astronomy; dye/wheat to Issy for spices/wine; cycle to war civics:

    Pre-buildup Military Advisor:

    Pre-buildup Power Graph:

    1625AD-Complete our next World Wonder:

    1640AD-Reject Lincoln's request to attack Ragnar...sorry, fool
    1645AD-Get our 16th great person, a GP, who I settle in Constantinople:

    1650AD-Found Abydos:

    1680AD-Only 70 years later...

    Military Advisor:

    Power Graph:

    The power of drafting/whipping in the renaissance era, not necessarily unique to a SE, but having an empire full of farms certainly doesn't hurt here. I cycle back to PARCS as my economy is on life support again:

    1690AD-Our 17th great person is born, a GS; I settle him in Thebes; I declare war on Lincoln:

    Sack New York; Use our stored GArtist to immediately culture bomb the city to bring it out of revolt for the city defenses and to get some production and culture going there; of course this manouever is much, much stronger when you are also able to rushbuy an airport and then proceed to mass-airlift in units!

    1695-I was researching corporation and finally finished it (focusing on military not teching for awhile there); now working on scimeth (I could trade Issy for it, but decide I would rather not help her tech as she might be next); trade rice to Issy for corn; trade dye to Ragnar for clams

    1705-Incense to Issy for 14gpt
    1710-Sack Washington:

    Found Asyut:

    1715-Sci Method done, start Chemistry
    1735-Finish Chem, start Bio. Do we have Oil?

    Yes, loads of it, if necessary!

    ...to be concluded in part 2

    Attached Files:

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