Monarch Student IV, Boudica (aka Bootycall to some)

[MkLh]

I always have trouble when it's a seafood start with no fishing. Assuming we don't get an Ag resource, what to do? I won't go for a religion - so...

1. Fishing/warrior first then switch build to work boat when fishing is done?
2. Fishing/worker first, switch build to work boat when fishing is done?
3. Ag/AH first + worker, then warrior/warrior/work boat or something?

Scout 1NW, or 1W 1NW first anyway. Probably settling in place here?

When there are 2 or more seafoods, it usually pays off to grow city to size 2 ASAP and then maximize hammers. When a Civ starts with Mysticism, Stonehenge is another option for start building. Even if you don't want to finish it, it always gives one gold for every hammer used to it (AFAIK). If you start building a warrior, there's a danger you won't finish it in time (it loses all hammers used for it after a while).

 

[assass1n]

I wont be able to play this but I have MS V with Pericles ready to go and will post it next Saturday

 

[nanomage]

I wont be able to play this but I have MS V with Pericles ready to go and will post it next Saturday

It's eternity to wait till next saturday
I understand that MS series spoils the job and family life for millions of people, but still. let's strart it sooner

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's eternity to wait till next saturday
I understand that MS series spoils the job and family life for millions of people, but still. let's strart it sooner

I know right, you're FIFTEEN GAMES BACK from NC AFTER posting V .

I do have some loose ends to tie first I suppose.

 

[feralminded]

Tried to play it on normal but I can see I'm too used to epic. I won but it wasn't very pretty (was a late 1800s domination). This weekend in the my first two playalongs ever I learned that the Celtic UU/UB are roughly as useful as the American UU/UB ... both total and complete junk. Sigh. It felt kind of boring ... nothing "special" to use.

Spoiler :

This game had a crazy good start ... almost too good really. Probably good for the learning series though but I was able to rexx out like 12-15 cities. That's a fairly rare start.

 

[assass1n]

I know right, you're FIFTEEN GAMES BACK from NC AFTER posting V .

I do have some loose ends to tie first I suppose.

If you mean me after posting MS V it will be

MS IV LHC XXV-XXVII
NC VIII-NC XX
I will start MS IV today most prolly and it will take me a week to complete

 

[Tempesta13]

Monarch/Normal 1200 AD - 1600 AD

Spoiler :

Attacked Gilg for the 2nd time around 1500 I think - had to wait longer since he got knights fast. Took most of his cities then he capitulated. Justinian has a lot of Cataphracts and just declared war on Egypt. I might try and join this war and take the cities before Justinian can. Just started building Cuirassiers so i only have a few - maces/trebs wont be fast enough to get there probably.

I'm pretty sure however i try and win this i need to attack Justinian (who i have at friendly now). Right now Just has a bigger army than i do, but i just started building up again and my production is much better than theirs. All 3 AI's on the other continent are Taoist. I will look to either convert (if i can), or go free religion soon. Then, depending on how things look after war with Just., i can either get galleons to invade the least liked Taoist civ - aiming for domination, or try to go for a UN win. Not quite sure what is the best way to go yet. China and Ethiopia aren't too powerful, so maybe i will try domination - only a couple turns from astronomy. I will have to delay my overseas attack until Justinian is gone - they hopefully will lose most of their cataphracts attacking egypt in the next few turns, then i can move in. If i time it right i can build the galleons during the war and have them ready right when Justinian is done with.

I think a big mistake i made this game was not disbanding my early army - i had a whole lot of axemen/gallic warriors sitting around waiting to attack Gilg - but i didn't end up attack again until 1500, since i waited for maces/trebs. I was in pacifism for awhile to get a scientist in time for education - then switched to paganism which helped a little - but i basically let everyone catch up in tech by paying all that unit upkeep. I did win liberalism and am still ahead slightly on tech - just lacking replaceable parts and scientific method - good news is that justinian is the tech leader, but conveniently located right next to me.

 

[Tempesta13]

Monarch/Normal 1600- ~1850

Spoiler :

Anyone still playing this game? I'll post a more detailed report when i get around to finishing (should have time soon) but i figured i'd do a quick write up (from memory) since i had some questions.

I took out Justinian down to 1 city (a 2 pop cap in egypt's culture). Egypt has 2 or 3 cities, Gilg is my vassal with 3 cities in the tundra. So i basically have the whole continent. I'm in a position where i could go for space and win pretty easily - but i'm trying to avoid having to go that far. I went for mass media and was hoping to sneak a UN win but it's somewhat complicated. China was Bismarck's vassal, and all three of those guys over there were Taoist and friendly with each other. I decided to try and get Zara to vote for me, and gift mass media to China hoping they would build it. They did, and broke free of Bismarck just prior, which i figured might help me out getting Germany's votes now.

I know that having a vassal messes up your relations with other AI's (more than just the -1 or -2 penalty it shows, right?) I think i've read it actually averages your relations. Bismarck was Gilg's worst enemy since it was a Taoist love fest over there. So i used some espionage to change Gilg into free religion (he was buddhist), and also changed China to free religion to get rid of their shared religion with Zara and Bismarck. Zara and Bismarck are pleased with me, and still friendly with China. (who won the UN leader vote)

My main question is - i'm still in nationhood (have been for awhile) which is Bismarck's favorite civic, but i'm getting no "we like your civics" bonuses for our relations. I was also planning on changing to theocracy (with no state religion) to get Zara's favorite civic and hopefully his votes too. I can't convert to Taoism - so is there any way i can hope to win a diplo victory in this situation (i'll try to post screenshots later) - i can gift some techs or make trades to get up to the +4 trade relations with them both also... and what is the deal with not getting favorite civic +'s with germany?? Will having Gilg as a vassal mess all this up?? (i also switched him to nationhood) Or should i just suck it up and tech to space?

 

[Single Malt]

I have yet to finish it. Time has not been on my side.
I restarted

Spoiler :

and decided to war war war. I spammed out horse archers, and killed giggles and ramessess. When my economy was kinda rebuilt I hit Justy, who had just gotten cataphracts. I killed him off. Both zara and bissy had founded a few cities on my unclaimed land. I beelined computers, which gave me a space tech lead on everybody. I have modern armour, and quin is teching Adv Flight for me. Space is my best option, as its a love fest (dp/vassal). I'll post a more comprehensive report when finished.

 

[nanomage]

I have yet to finish it. Time has not been on my side.
I restarted

Spoiler :

and decided to war war war. I spammed out horse archers, and killed giggles and ramessess. When my economy was kinda rebuilt I hit Justy, who had just gotten cataphracts. I killed him off. Both zara and bissy had founded a few cities on my unclaimed land. I beelined computers, which gave me a space tech lead on everybody. I have modern armour, and quin is teching Adv Flight for me. Space is my best option, as its a love fest (dp/vassal). I'll post a more comprehensive report when finished.

Spoiler :

why need HA's if you have GIII gallics? they are both cheaper and stronger atacking cities.

 

[Tempesta13]

Monarch/Normal -1944 (end)

Spoiler :

Kept messing around with diplomacy/espionage but coudn't get the UN votes for the victory - so i figured i'd just go for space. It was a late start on the space race - but i had so much land/towns i had around 2500 beakers at the end. I was a couple techs behind going into rocketry but soon flew past all the AI's. Then Bismarck declared war on Qin, so he sure wasn't getting his votes for UN anymore. Eventually (about 7 turns after i launched) he decided to vote for me and i ended up building that ship for nothing, and won the diplo victory in 1944.

Was a pretty uneventful game for the 2nd half. I should have known i wouldn't be able to pull off a UN victory (until very late apparently) and i should have attacked the other continent to make it more interesting. It was just hard to figure out what to do when they were all friendly with each other over there.

Here's a shot of my completed spaceship parts - have to radio those guys and tell them to turn around, we won...

Was way ahead in tech at the end. China built a few parts but that was it.

Finally got this one finished - ready for the next! Thinking about trying Emperor for the next one - but that might mean i'd disappear from the thread after my 1AD post...

 

[Single Malt]

Spoiler :

why need HA's if you have GIII gallics? they are both cheaper and stronger atacking cities.

Spoiler :

HA's are quicker.

 

[Phil725]

I've been winning the majority of my games on Prince, so I decided to give my first Monarch game a try. I thought the game started pretty well. I got out 3 good cities plus my capital, plus I blocked off a lot of land for future expansion. Then the barbs started getting me.

Other than the initial shock of running into exploring archers on the second turn, barbs seem to be the big difference between Prince and Monarch. My question is, what's the best way to deal with them?

The Great Wall was already gone, so I researched archery and started getting out archers in my cities, especially the one taking 90% of the barb activity. That didn't help that much though. The barbs seemed to completely ignore my defenders and just pillage my roads and improvements. And I never got copper hooked up because of axes and spears attacking by the time I could get to it. I certainly wasn't planning on getting hit ~1000BC.

Should I have gotten copper/horses hooked up earlier for a more active defense? In this instance that would've meant less optimal city placement, or less aggressive REXing. I also don't think chopping out the GW in every game is optimal, plus I'm trying to purposely avoid crutches as I move up difficulties, but it certainly would have made this game much easier.

 

[nanomage]

if you have copper/iron available, dig several archers on top of it. and then connect it to your cities under their protection. after you have copper/iron build enough axes to hold the barbs off your land.
That should have been done much earlier although. connecting metal or horses/building GW pre 2000BC is essential for your survival on monarch, unless you are MM, Hammy, SB, or at least Pacal.
still if you get hurt, try connecting strategic resources under defence of archers and whipping axes ASAP.

 

[Single Malt]

Let me welcome you to posting on these boards Phil. Regards to your barb questions. The best way I find to deal with barbs is fogbusting. Barbs can only spawn in black or dark tiles (I think there is a higher probability on black). The best tactic is to have archer/warriors/axes fortified outside your cultural boundaries, in order to limit the amount of tiles that are affected by fog. It can also be worth it to fortify an archer/axe on resources, if the barbs are pillaging a lot. Attack is the best defence, so if you have axes, always attack the barb (provided they have no defensive bonus). They are a pain, but stick with it, and you will learn to deal with 'em

 

[Phil725]

Yeah I'm going to play from an earlier save and focus more hammers on units for defense and fogbusting, it really was a bad oversight to begin with. The two things I was worried about moving up in difficulty was the AI expanding much faster and barbs being worse. Unfortunately I only focused on 1 of those things. I got all the cities I wanted, but didn't have the means to protect them.

 

[Phil725]

Well I tried again from an earlier save, this time actually preparing for barbs, and things went much better.

Monarch - Epic - To 10AD

Spoiler :

Settled in place, I could've gone 1E for stone, or 1S for another sea food, but I decided that the flood plains were worth staying in place. I popped the Wheel and a second scout from huts, but both were eaten by bears after exploring a little.

Instead of going for early wonders, I decided to get some settlers out quick, since this seems like a relatively crowded start. I settled out west against Justinian, claiming a gold tile, along with a ton of hills in the BFC. If I can get the pop up some, this should be a great production city. I settled Vienne to the east, blocking off the peninsula, it's not a great city, but does have my only copper in the BFC, and there looks to be some great cities down there. Those are the only cities I have now, but I have a settler going down to pick up the 2 gems, rice, dye, and maybe cows.

The only other potential problem is that Justinian has enough on his hands. I figured at first he was going against Ramses, since he's a zealot in a different religion, and there was 2 jilted bride events between them, but when I checked, he was pleased with him despite that. Combination of favorite civic and peace weight I would guess.

Here's the world at 10AD:

A war with Justinian wouldn't be that bad, he can only hit my westernmost city, and there's no way he can take my production city, on a hill, surrounded by hills, while I'm cranking out units with free guerrilla promotions. A war would still hurt though, since I figure I need to take out Gilgamesh soon. I would've rushed him earlier if he wasn't one of the 2 or 3 hardest AIs to rush in the game.

Hopefully Buddhism spreads to me soon so I can get on good terms with him and prepare to take out the Jewish bloc. Gilgamesh has to go, and Ramses is just too tempting of a target to ignore with all those lightly protected wonders.

I'm not certain how to go about this though. If I don't axe rush someone, I usually just expand peacefully until Rifling/Steel. I'm actually not sure how to pull off a ~Classical era war on a protective AI without elephants. Then again, that's what these games are for, new strategies on a new difficulty, so I guess I'll see how it goes.

 

[Phil725]

Monarch - Epic - 1130AD

Spoiler :

Buddhism finally spread to me, so I adopted it to avoid conflict with Justinian. He went after Ramses instead. Apparently one of them switched civics, or the heathen religion went up to -6 or -7. Bad move by Justinian though. Gilgamesh declared on him, and they are still at war 1000 years later. He made peace with Ramses after 4 or 5 turns, but he has been fighting a defensive war against Gilgamesh who has been shipping stack after stack into one of Justinian's border cities.

I'm teching pretty slowly, but I'm not too worried about it. Gilgamesh is the current tech leader, but he doesn't even have paper yet. I'm pretty certain the other continent is backwards, every religion and wonder is going to either Gilgamesh or Ramses. As long as I bulb education, I should be able to get a good tech off of liberalism, and then get almost every backfill tech by trading around education and liberalism.

I thought about going after Gil with knights, but decided against it. With a well prepared strike with even a 1 tech advantage, I should be able to quickly take 5 or 6 good cities. That would seriously cripple him, and Ramses and Justinian don't look like they would be much of a problem. Looks like I'm going to aim for a domination win.

Edit: Well, things didn't turn out as well as I hoped.

Spoiler :

The big problem I ran into was the other continent. Apparently all of the religions except Hinduism were founded on my continent. Obviously that means it's a huge lovefest on the other one. I was really hoping to meet backwards AIs. Instead all the other guys were teching peacefully, and trading techs around. Each AI had a big monopoly tech when I met them (nationalism, printing press and replaceable parts IIRC.)

By the time I could even think of hitting Gilgamesh, he was finishing up RP as well. I may have been able to cripple Gil by suiciding a large amount of catapults and muskets on his cities, but getting rid of Gil wouldn't win me the game like I had hoped. Even if I managed to take over everyone on my continent with the Monty AI strategy, each AI on the other continent is bigger than Gil.

I really played this game poorly. I'm very inexperienced with warring after axes and before rifles, and it showed here. I followed the normal liberalism beeline, and ended up with a useless bunch of techs (paper, education, liberalism and nationalism) and 500 years of wasted research time. If I had went after engineering and something else early on, I probably could've taken over Gil and maybe my entire continent. Leaving me in a great position for an Industrial Age war on the other continent.

Then again, I put myself into a pretty bad position in general. I never got my economy back on track after the early REX phase, and my tech rate stunk.

I'm not really surprised I lost, it was my first game on Monarch. Along with a combination of bad play, and an unlucky roll with the other continent. I run into backwards enemies a lot more than friendly people teching faster than my continent. At least now I'll be better prepared for the next game. Pericles is one of my favorite leaders too, so hopefully I can get a win.

 

[Single Malt]

Phil, none of those techs are useless. Paper allows map trading (you can make a lot of gold), education allows unis and oxford and is on the way to gunpowder/sci method, nationalism allows nationhood, a powerful civic which allows the mobilisation of a quick army, and lib, while dead end, allows free speech, which gives a hugh +2 per town and +100%