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Monarch Student^ VI - Willem Van Oranje

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Meatbuster, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,307
    Immortal/Normal

    Spoiler :

    Ended up quitting this game at 1750 - I can win easily but I feel like I made way too many mistakes. I got mining and sushi out with 22 cities founded peacefully. 30% of the land and 30% of the population (before sushi). Took Stalin early then went straight for bombers/cavalry and took out Ragnar in 4 turns (infantry no flight) then went after Justinian. Unfortunately he got nukes just before I attacked him. I have him down to 5 cities and 15 infantry/SAMs, but he drops 4 nukes every turn since I attacked which is just plain annoying - tanks make it through, but I lost 6 cavalry attacking his first 6 cities and 50 from nukes. This was my first game to war at bombers.

    Ugh
    - Build more workers... I could have done so much better tech wise.
    - Cavalry is great with bombers - I lost about 10% of my cavalry when attacking infantry in cities after 50% collateral damage. C1+pinch. Build forts for your bombers, basing them to get at the next city is the only thing that slows you.
    - Don't be cute. I did not have to attack Justinian and I could have went after the backward continent at cavalry 60 or 70 turns ago.
    - Attack the guy going for nukes. Justinian didn't have oil so I went for Ragnar first. Does the AI intentionally go straight for nukes without oil? Uranium for ships?

     
  2. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
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    1,467
    Grasshopa
    Spoiler :
    I've learned the worst possible way to split my stacks when attacking someone with nukes. There's a threshold I don't know below which they won't nuke. It's trial and error. Still, it sucks.
     
  3. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
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    1,307
    @nihil
    Spoiler :

    Nice ending to your game :) Obviously you can get a huge amount of EP from the buildings and that many cities..

    In my game the other continent was way behind the one in yours. All 3 got rifles in the 1700s. AND Justinian had nukes in 1730 when I attacked him - I traded with him too much and took over so much land his expansion didn't slow his research.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,708
    In a mutual nuke fest vs the AI:

    Nuking from the coast then razing amphibiously en masse' is extremely effective and often results in FAST capitulation. You can also just attack using mini-stacks and keep your reserves further into your territory (with rails, you can still reinforce quickly if needed). After all, the AI won't be splitting its stack so you can tac nuke it to hell, and then little mini-squads of 5-6 units supported by tactical nuking of the target city ahead of time should do the job nicely, even if you don't raze. I definitely recommend tanks or paratroopers for this sort of war (nukes + paras can do the job incredibly fast with enough nukes...incredibly fast) because they can cover the distance and cut into the AI's production base rapidly.
     
  5. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,955
    Spoiler :

    Immortal normal. Played like industrious (in a horrid performance, I doubt I could make more mistakes)
    Yet, got Great Wall(!), GLH/Pyramids/Great Library/Sistine Chapel/Ankor Wat/UoS/Taj
    W/ 2 settled great spies stole a lot from Stalin

    Got declared both by Stalin/Ragnar and contained them well. Stalin just after the war vassaled to Justinian who managed to spread judaism everywhere but Ragnar.

    Lib in 1150 for steel. 700beaker/turn and heroic epic... and abandoned the game.

    Willem is quite fail proof on this map.
     
  6. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,307
    Thanks TMIT, I play too many starts without a finish.
     
  7. TheBoboni

    TheBoboni Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Don't know if other people visit this thread anymore, but I did and it helped me hop up to Monarch.
    This is my second MS game, the first one being Wan Kong. I haven't posted it yet, but it was my first Monarch Domination win, with heavy nuking involved.
    After that map I needed to see some nice blue oceans for a change though.

    As I played this I noticed Willem is growing to be one of my favorite leaders...

    Emperor/Normal to 1AD:

    Spoiler :

    I settled in place and began exping. The warrior went down south, along the coast. Tech patch was Mining, Wheel, Pottery, Bronze, Writing, Masonry, Animal Husbandry, Metal Casting.
    Then I went for some protection, because there was a lot of unexplored an unsettled jungle down south, and I feared barbs would come up soon. Hunting -> Archery.
    The I went for the usual Alphabet->Currency->CoL.



    As for the game, in 3720BC the warrior met Ragnar.



    Then I went exploring west, along the jungle line, and in 3160BC I met this guy. On a side note, if he is in the game, I don't see a reason why there is no Hitler. Come to think of it, half of the leaders of Civ were in real life ruthless bastards and mass murderers. Anyway, back to the game:



    In 1240BC, the Great Lighthouse was up. As you can see, I was already working on Metal Casting for the Colossus.



    While waiting for Metal Casting I ran scientists in the capital, but the GP that came out was a little... unexpected. Oh well, Civilization probably noticed this game will be all about money, so it gave me this:



    I went to Stalin's capital, cashed in 900 gold and upped the science slider to 100%.



    In 500BC, Justinian found me. As you can see, he is a man that likes his Axemen.
    He also spread Buddhism to me and Stalin. Being starved for happiness (I probably should've settled on a silk tile) I adopted it as my state religion.



    In 50BC, a lot of stuff happened. The colossus was completed, I researched code of laws and adopted caste system. At this point I got interested in the Temple of Artemis, but it was already built by an unkown civilization.



    In 25BC I bought Iron Working from Justinian for 220 gold, which bumped him to pleased.


    At this point I had enough profit and the tech to exp in all the empty jungle down below, and maybe on Ragnar's island too.
    As you can see, most of my cities are coastal, and those that aren't have a lot of riverside tiles. Some have both.


    For now, this lets me abuse the GLH and Colossus, and it's even better with Willem's FIN. After I get Printing Press from Liberalism, I will probably try to go straight for Steam Power and then Universal suffrage, trading for the prerequisites. Once I get those two, my production output will go skyrocketing through the roof. Or so I hope.


    The only problem I have is that while I was pumping and whipping settlers, wonders, lighthouses and granaries (thanks to creative I didn't have to build monuments) I neglected my military. I only have a few archers and ONE galley. I can see building archers to exp down in the jungles, but at this point galleys are pretty much useless - or am I wrong?

    My "military". Also, I don't have nearly enough workers, though no city works unimproved tiles, thanks to heavy whipping :) Lighthouses+Colossus+Financial makes every coastal tile basically count as grasslands with towns.



    As for research, I'll probably go for Monarchy, then Calendar - I badly need to increase my happy cap.
    I should also spread buddhism if Justinian doesn't do it quickly.

    Then will probably be time to run for Liberalism and take Printing Press as the free tech to increase my commerce output even more. It would be good to trade for Optics at some point, to enable Astronomy and build Harbors.

    Diplo looks stable right now, so I don't see many problems there.
     
  8. avdale

    avdale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    60
    @TheBoboni

    Spoiler :
    Looks like a pretty solid game, Glh+Colossus is very strong on this map as many have demonstrated. Only thing that suprised me is your diplo situation. With Ragnar and Stalin as your immediate neighbors I'd be a bit more worried. They are both bloodthirsty warmongers and will be looking to declare. Justy is too big for them to go for, they wont attack eachother due to warmonger respect so that leaves poor you sandwiched between them. I'd work on some tiremes to sink anything ragnar sends. Then either beeline feudalism and hunker down for a defensive war or try and hold until maces and trebs then go for the kill on stalin.

    Also a bit curious about your initial expansion. All the land behind your capital up to the end of the island could have waited a while to be settled. General strategy is to settle cities and rex towards an a.i thereby denying him potential sites and making the logistics of any future conflicts easier. I.e from your screenshot Stalin looks to be connected to the continent by a tiny land bridge, rexing towards him probably could have locked him into 4-5 cities max.
     
  9. hou jing

    hou jing Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
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    62
    I've attached a 1000 BC save. You guys'll probably have some criticisms, but that's fine. I have a 5th settler headed NNE of The Hague to settle in the forest to get the wheat, two hill, fish and whale city. Without having seen updates from people, I'm willing to bet my city placement is different, largely because I my techpath is probably also different (I researched IW prior to AH after not finding any copper). I think I'm short on workers right now, as there are some unworked tiles, and I really think the iron/stone city is going to be hard for me to optimize (I could use some advice there).

    Edit: I'm a Noble/sometimes Prince player.
     
  10. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
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    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Immortal - Normal: (Up to Liberalism)

    One of my early plans blew up in my face and is rather commical now but read on...


    Spoiler :


    I built a bunch of wonders again... including both of TGL(s)

    So naturally I thought it would be fancy-smancy to get an early city on a nearby island...

    which turned out to be a bigger island...

    which turn out to be a continent...

    which turned out to be Ragnars continent!!!

    I got pwned like some Nobel-rookie...


    Put be back quite a bit, in fact I still only have 4 cities and we are getting quite late into the game lol. But I THINK I am about to win the lib race, and like I said, I built a bunch of wonders to fall back on so I should be still able to kick some ass in a little while. I`ll check back in later tonight, hopeful no other fancy-smancy moves blow up in my face again.

     
  11. Capellan

    Capellan Is this thing on?

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    338
    Hi.

    First time playing at Monarch, so this really is a student game for me!

    I'll be checking in more often than standard so players who know more than me can tell me what I'm doing wrong. Which is probably a lot! All I ask is that you don't give advice based on map-knowledge that I don't have in my game.

    No huts; no events. Epic. To 2425 BC.

    Spoiler :

    Settled in place. Workboat first since I needed BW before there would be all that much a worker could do. Then worker. Then warriors until I was at my happy cap. Just finished my first settler and will now start on my second worker.



    Techpath was Mining, then BW, so I could clear the forests around my capital. Then Sailing (as I will have a lot of coastal cities), AH and Wheel. Am now teching Masonry as I have stone in sight and would dearly love the GLH.



    I've scouted out the land and found Ragnar and met (but not found) Stalin. Here's my map/city placement notes. I have warriors spawnbusting at every marked spot except the most northern one.





    So, I guess at this point my questions are:

    1. What's the single most important thing I should have done and haven't?
    2. I'm not in Slavery yet. Should I go now, or wait until I have a need (e.g. whipping the lighthouse/GLH)?
    3. Where should my settler go? I'm thinking it is the "commerce" marker, as that city will get stone in its first border pop.
    4. How is my dotmapping? What have I done right/wrong with it?
    5. Anything else you think I should know?

    Thanks for any and all constructive comments!
     
  12. avdale

    avdale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
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    @capellan, still learning Monarch myself but what I'd say is.


    Spoiler :

    1. What's the single most important thing I should have done and haven't?

    Building those warriors, letting the capital pop grow is nice but its more efficient to simply chop or whip that opening settler than spamming warriors. They lose to most barbs anyway and there is no point fogbusting sites now which you will realistically settle many turns later.

    2. I'm not in Slavery yet. Should I go now, or wait until I have a need (e.g. whipping the lighthouse/GLH)?

    Whipping wonders incurs a fairly large penalty simply because they are wonders so that is not recomended in most circumstances. Wait until you have a specific thing you feel whipping would be good then swap. Maybe a settler you want to get out asap to grab a city site before an A.I

    3. Where should my settler go? I'm thinking it is the "commerce" marker, as that city will get stone in its first border pop.

    I would say to try and block off all that land behind your capital settle the eastern most marker then go from east to west settling in a line using your creative trait to force early border pops.

    4. How is my dotmapping? What have I done right/wrong with it?

    Cant really see from the globe view, try zooming in a bit more.

    5. Anything else you think I should know?

    Treat war more as an inevitability than a possibility on this map based on your neighbors imo.
     
  13. Capellan

    Capellan Is this thing on?

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    Oct 2, 2007
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    @avdale

    Spoiler :

    Building warriors while growing to cap (and the importance of spawnbusting) is something I've picked up from TMIT's livestream games. I may or may not be implementing it right, though :)

    Map in post above is now split into two with closer zoom for clarity.

    Edit to add: I did chop one forest as part of the settler, and will chop more as I build up workers and more settlers.
     
  14. Capellan

    Capellan Is this thing on?

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
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    Monarch/Epic to mid 13th century. No huts, no events.

    Spoiler :

    Got too involved in the game and forgot screenshots. Oops :)

    Followed avdale's advice and settled the most eastern city first, then worked back. Seems like a good plan as the eastern city butts up against Stalin.

    Just started to get more advanced military up in time. Stalin attacked and ran straight into the Horse Archers and Axemen I'd just started building up. Stymied his thrust in the east, then took a city from him in the south (which is quite the unit pump once I cleared the jungle ... double bananas, rice, hills and rivers). Got gold for peace.

    Ragnar had a go a bit later, nabbing a barb city I'd captured. I took it back 3 turns later, then built a couple of galleys and took one of his cities, giving me a foothold across the straits. Got more gold for peace.

    Stalin vassaled to Justinian (who is Friendly to me).

    Won the Lib race, which surprised me - I think the other continent is warring. Probably Hindus vs Jews as those two religions seem to be over there. Took printing press as the free tech. Still need to backfill Optics and sent out Caravels.

    Ragnar just declared again. He's behind me in tech, but close to a match in military since he has got to Berserkers now. Still, I'd built up a fair few units in the city on his land mass, and am continuing to pump out more. He's the heathen on our continent, and Justy is far too powerful for him to fight, so that makes me the default target. Which is fine, since I was aiming to smack him around anyway :)

    Thus far, things seem to be going pretty well. If Stalin had attacked 10 turns earlier it might have been nasty, but he didn't. I'm thinking Space Race is probably my best bet for a win, right now. Financial trait + production from Dikes (I have mostly coastal cities) seems well suited to that victory condition.

     

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