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Monarch Student^ XVI Saladin

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by BigTime, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Jun 18, 2009
    Chapel Hill, NC
    It's time for the 16th edition of MS Prime! Our glorious leader today? Saladin of Arabia!

    Poor sal is generally seen as one of the weaker leaders, with a not so good starting tech set of The Wheel and Mysticism, and not a very good pair of traits. Spiritual is nice, but protective is generally seen as the weakest trait in the game. But the traits mean nothing compared to the land!

    His UU is the Camel Archer:

    A knight with a 15% chance to withdraw, that doesn't require iron or horse to produce. Nothing to write home about, I never really liked this UU. It's placed on an awkward technology, and Curassiers and cavalry are much better. Don't really like it at all.

    His UB is the Madrassa:

    A library that provides 2 more culture per turn than a regular library, and that allows you to run 2 priests. I like this UB, actually. It is very helpful with border wars, especially if you are next to a creative leader. And if you want to cheese AP, you can always run priests :p

    And of course, the start:

    A corn and a spice in the original BFC, with another corn to the east. Dual corn is nice, I'd say this is a pretty nice start. There is a good amount of riverside as well. 1NE looks tempting for the plains hill start and another corn. There are also a lot of hills in that direction as well.

    One last thing, I've stopping making Noble saves, since Noble players don't play this series. Instead, I've started making Monarch, Emperor, Immortal saves.

    Map is:

    Spoiler :

    Temperate Fractal

    Huts and Events are OFF, add events in the custom scenario if you wish. (just make sure to cover the top part with your hand so you don't see the AIs :p)

    And a cut-and-paste from Meatbuster's Monarch Student games:

    Save the file and place it in your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then unzip it into your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then use Playing a scenario to play your desired level. Or use custom scenario if you want to remove huts and/or events.

    Recommended Checkpoints:
    *1000BC or 1AD
    *1000AD or Liberalism

    Please remember to put the journals of your adventures inside spoiler tags.

    For Monarch+ players please try to add archery back to the barbs in WB. If you don't, AIs will capture cities with archers very early in the game, which is no fun. If you prefer easymode barbs, that's fine too, just don't go wondering why an AI captured a barb city in the very early BCs!

    Thanks go to TMIT for making an excellent map creation guide and to mjg5591 for getting this series back on track!

    And finally, the save!

    Attached Files:

  2. cas

    cas Emperor

    Jul 30, 2002
    RE: Camel Archer...doesn't require resources (horse/iron) like knights and curassiers which can be useful. Not my favorite, though.

    Will probably move 1NE with the settler to get both corn in the BFC after I scout 1NE with the warrior.

  3. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Jun 18, 2009
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Thanks Cas, sorry I fixed that.
  4. DrakenKin

    DrakenKin Prince

    Jan 8, 2010
    I used to play Saladin when I was at noble/prince. He is suited for going "culture in a hostile environment".

    I like the Spiritual trait for the versatility of adapting the civics to every situation. Protective might be weak in general, but when you turtle (again for a culture win) and need to defend with a tiny army it helps quite a bit.

    Mysticism means you can get an early religion which is good for both the extra culture and the extra diplomacy if you bother spreading it. Even if the AI can switch religion later, you can use the diplo bonus from shared religion early to bribe for wars and thus arrange for your neighbors to have someone else they hate more than you for the remainder of the game.
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Mar 11, 2008
    Good idea on the saves. Nice to have a straight up emperor saves.

    I actually think Sal would be a decent leader if his UU wasn't nerved. The UB is pretty nice. The starting techs are not that bad just not as flexible and no worker techs. However, it can play to certain strategies. I may try the religion route.
  6. Tempesta13

    Tempesta13 Prince

    Jan 7, 2009
    IMM/Normal 4000BC -Retired (425BC)
    Spoiler :

    Had 5 cities at 1280 BC with room for 3 more mediocre cities. Got the 775BC inevitable DOW from Ragnar. Managed to get chariots and masonry just in time but at 425BC i lost the gold site and gave up. Lost 18 chariots - with copper it would be doable but with just horses it's tough to survive that early DOW. Obviously archery would have also helped. Tough map.

    Quick land grab attempt.

    Attempt at defense. Made it another 300 years before losing the city but his reinforcements were outnumbering mine. Needed archery.

  7. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Jun 18, 2009
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Emperor/normal to 1AD

    Spoiler :

    Settled 1NE for extra corn and plains hill bonus. More plains, but corn makes up for it.

    Oh boy we have some nice neighbors :sad: 2 of the highest buildunit probs in the game next door and boudica the fury from hell to the east. Thankfully she doesn't declare at pleased and she's at pleased now from religion. Mehmed is close to pleased too, so as long as I'm not his target ATM all I should have to worry about is Rag.

    Got lucky and popped silver in capital :D

    Then, everything went to hell. Ragnar declared, being in warmode for all of 2 turns. Mehmed is also in warmode, though I think he's after Hatty, although he has some units on my border.

    Current empire:

    Rag's smallish stack:

    and Mehmed's border stack:

    I should be able to hold off since I was building some units since I though Mehmed was going to declare. I might be able to poach a city off Rag too, which would be nice. If I pull a win on this though, I will be pretty amazed. The tech rate should be pretty slow though.

  8. ben_the_man

    ben_the_man Chieftain

    Nov 10, 2005
    I've never posted one of these before, although I'm a fairly regular Civ player, so I'm not sure if I'm doing it right...

    I played on Monarch, which I assume is the easiest, but I selected emperor from the dropdown menu in the custom game screen, so I'm not sure what that means.

    Spoiler :
    I settled 1 NE for the extra corn and to be on a hill. After that, I quickly grabbed the 2 golds I saw, making sure to include the food plains in the city radius. I then tried to block Mehmed II from expanding, which was unsucessful due to him getting a city 2 turns before me. I then just tried to get all the useful resources I could find, and managed to get both copper and iron.

    Around 700BC, I attacked Mehmed II who had 4-5 lousy cities (expept for capital, which had the great lighthouse as well:)) and took him out in about 20 turns. Unfortunatly, all my nearby neighbours had converted to hinduism, so attacking any of them meant a relations hit, but I guess that's the advantage of playing on monarch... its forgiving. I have just declared on carthage, and it looks like they got vasselage within a turn or two, because longbows are popping up everywhere... yay.

    I have taken out 1 of their cities, but I have completely lost momentum due to massive losses (several longbows/elephants on a hill vs my swordsmen:sad:) My economy has also crashed completely, so I need to build up pop/cottages to start making some money.

    I am doing alright for the time being. It is 610AD, Ragnar has just declared on Wang Kon, so he's occupied, and I am at war with Budica (who seems reletively far away) and Carthage (who I am trying to fight atm)


    Turns out I won a domination in 1904. I completely anihalated Ragnar, then Hannibal, then Budica, the latter with tanks vs longbows and some rifles :D Hatty capitulated once I took her capital... 56 tanks vs 39 marines and assorted garbage... didn't lose a unit:D

    Fairly easy game, I should probably try a harder difficulty next time, but the other 2 choices were deity and immortal, neither of which I've ever won. My score was 68k.

    As this is my first time, let me know any details I should be posting but am not!

    That was FUN!!!

  9. cas

    cas Emperor

    Jul 30, 2002
    Monarch/normal 2007 space victory. One city (not OCC setting). Heh. ;)

    Spoiler :
    Moved the settler 1NE to settle on the plains hill. Good mix of hills mined for production + 2 corn for food. Normal tech pattern...Oracle->CS sling kinda late around 1240BC?, Liberalism->Bio sling around 1250AD, build NatPark and spam forest preserves where possible. Not enough forests, which slowed me considerably on the next phase beelining Computers->Internet in 1921AD...Ragnar almost beat me to it :eek: On to Fusion and backfill techs where needed. I think the AI researched everything else for me except Genetics.

    Diplo was once again very important. Founded Hindu, Confu, and Tao but stayed out of religion until Budhism spread to me...Bud was the religion of choice for Ragnar/Boudica/Meh/Hannibal. No religion = avoid early hostility and eventually Ragnar went after WK (Jewish). Bribed dogpile-wars against WK and Hatty until they eventually capitulated to Boudica. Rag/Meh/Boud/Hann became friendly mid-game and I worked to keep them there...so no worries about war. After WK/Hatty capitulated, Ragnar turned his sights on Boudica but couldn't really make a dent in her. During the last 30 turns or so, Boudica declared on Ragnar, and she was within sight of the domination limit. So I closed borders with her, which meant her only route to Ragnar was by boat. :lol:

    Two funny tidbits. I was able to raze Thebes with 4 total troops tagging along with Boudica during one of the Egypt wars because Boudica killed all but 2 longbows. Hehe...no more worries about an Egypt culture win after that. And my capital's culture took over 2 of Mehmed's 4 cities...which I razed rather than keep. He then proceeded to build two more cities packed tighter to his little pennisula.

    Almost wish I'd gone one city conquest with the mix of leaders...but glad I didn't because my capital borders lacked both uranium and oil (got oil in borders in the last 10 turns or so.)




    Fun game. Thanks for hosting.

  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008





    Spoiler :

    Ragnar DoWs in spite of having 2 annoyed targets while I was @ cautious (soon to be pleased). I WTFown him with protective archers and buy out of the war using monarchy.

    I then spam horse archers while teching to lib. I hit lib, take nationalism, and tech toward MT. I use 2 great merchants to insta-upgrade and build some 40 cuirassers by 1200 AD. Ragnar has grenadiers all of a sudden, so instead I go for boudica, who lacks anything better than muskets and only got gunpowder recently.

    What proceeded from there was some of the cheapest garbage :) :) :) :) I've ever seen at immortal.

    I take 3 cities with minimal casualties, and then see an ENORMOUS stack of maces, elelphants, trebs, knights. I pull out of 2 of the cities completely, and GG medic heal in the iron city boudica had settled on top of.

    Sure enough, that 30 unit stack takes the 2 cities back, semi-splits up, comes for the 3rd city, and promptly gets owned.

    Then I would just heal up and push on against inferior units...

    The another wave of 10 units came just as I finished healing, I killed it losing like 2 cuirassers and then went to heal.

    Then another wave of 10 units came before I finished healing. I liked them but some of her elephants put some hurting on my cuirassers. Likewise for the pikes. Still, I killed about 2x as much as I lost, then went to heal

    Then another wave of 10 units came before I finished healing...

    This went on and on while she teched nationalism, military tradition, and replaceable parts.

    Why was she able to rebuild SoD's with 5+trebs and some stack cover and hit me with them every 3-4 turns? What the @#%@#$.

    So, I lose. Maybe I should have just gone after ragnar in spite of the grenadiers...he had fewer units/cities but I wasn't expecting something so cheap.

  11. Freyas

    Freyas Chieftain

    Dec 14, 2009
    Monarch/Epic 1838 Diplomatic Victory (AP, though I was about to win UN too)
    Spoiler :

    Settled 1 NE on the plains hill to grab the extra corn. Pretty good capital, with high production from the hills and good cottage land for bureaucracy. I quickly ran into Mehmed, then Ragnar, Boudhica, and eventually Hannibal. Seeing the land and determining I could effectively block Mehmed to the south and Boudhica to the northeast, I rexed, settling my first city south towards Mehmed, grabbing the clams and silk, settling the coast, though I eventually regretted not settling 1 off for a block with a single pop and no other cities. Second city took the horses +2 gold spot southeast of the capitol, third went up to grab the clam/pig/corn to block Boudhica and get a strong GP farm. I grabbed several more cities to the east and north, getting a city to claim the stone and copper down towards Hannibal. Ragnar settled an early city down by the wheat and iron, which hurt my expansion that way, but I got 7 cities early, and was limping along, but still maintaining tech parity thanks to the gold. With the stone, I picked up both Great Wall and Pyramids, both built in the 2 gold city, since it had good production, and my capitol was busy popping out workers/settlers.

    Mehmed made himself a thorn in my side by slipping a couple of settlers out before my second border pop on my blocking city, settling a couple crap cities on the edges of my culture. Hannibal started prepping for war, and I assumed I'd be the target, so I started working on defenders, while struggling to keep my economy afloat. I got Aesthetics, and traded it to Hannibal for Alphabet, and then to Boudhica for IW+Archery. Mehmed also started war prep, of which I was certain I was his target. I quickly whipped some defenders for him, and a couple turns later, he attacked, sending a small stack to my city near him. The next turn, Hannibal also declared on me, sending swords and axes to my city with copper. I had 2 warriors in that city, which I upgraded to axes, and whipped an archer a turn later. Both forces suicided into my defenders, without causing any casualties. It's times like this that protective can make a difference, I guess. I did snipe one of the irritating cities that Mehmed had settled on the eastern coast with a chariot, as he only had an axe guarding it. It was size 1, and auto-razed. He still had one on the south coast, for the spices and horse, but it was heavily culture-pressed from the GW+Pyramids culture, and had an archer/spear/axe as defenders, on a hill. With having to guard both sides of my territory, I couldn't build up a big enough stack to have a realsitic shot of taking it.

    In any case, after a few turns and a couple more units suiciding, they both bought out of the war, funding some deficit research. I was still NSR, since Mehmed and Ragnar were Hindu, while Boudhica and Hannibal were Buddhist. However, Ragnar converted to Buddhism, so I quickly followed suit. However, a few turns later Ragnar went in to war prep, and then both he and Mehmed declared on me. Fortunately, he sent his stack down to the same city that Hannibal had assaulted, which now had 2 CG3 archers, a shock axe, and a spear. Mehmed tooled around in the south, but didn't actually mount any real invasion, but Ragnar had just got Construction, and had a couple catapults in his stack, and sent some horse archers to harrass one of my northern cities, which had to stack whip unhappiness for some spears.

    My defenses held versus Ragnar's stack, and I sent in a stack at his city that was almost bisecting my empire, and took it, despite him moving another wave of units past the city to assault my copper city. Had he stopped them (jumbos, catapults, and HA's) to defend the city, I wouldn't have stood a chance, but they moved on, and I took the city. Ragnar was finally ready to talk, and he bought his way out of the war, quickly followed by Mehmed doing the same.

    Boudhica, Hannibal, and Ragnar all got pretty happy with me due to shared religion, and I set up some trades/gifts to help get on their good sides. I finally encountered Wang Kong and Hatty, who are Jewish, and pretty much universally hated. With all my neighbors besides Mehmed pleased, and with them hating the Jews, I finally felt I could rest easy, and my economy was finally getting rolling. I had founded Confucianism when I teched CoL, and I bulbed Philosophy, founding Taoism, but didn't bother spreading either, since I didn't plan on trying for a prophet, and I was behind on infra from all the wars.

    I had a decent tech lead going into liberalism, and was planning on trying to take steel, but I forgot to change research when I was a turn from Liberalism, and ended up getting it prematurely. I just took nationalism, did some trading, and started in on chemistry. At this point, I had Boudhica and Hannibal at friendly, and Ragnar was at +8 or +9, so I decided to go for UN. Since Hatty had a ton of land, she'd be my opponent for the UN, so I went up to Democracy (since I needed the bonus growth on my cottages from emancipation badly), and then beelined MM. I'm heavily culture pressing Mehmed's city on the south coast, and took it via AP vote, which puts Mehmed down to 2 cities total. I got slightly ahead on tech, and trading around with the Buddhist block gives the 4 of us a massive tech lead. I built Broadway, Eiffel Tower, Rock and Roll, and then the UN. I'm just a bit short of winning both by AP, and by UN, but Hatty+WK hold enough votes to block me.

    Hatty prepares for war, then she and WK (who voluntarily vassaled) attacked Boudhica, triggering DP's with both me and Hannibal. I just finished the UN, and am building a couple factories+power plants while finishing industrialism. Long story short, I pump out a dozen tanks or so, and then start mowing down the cuirassiers/longbows/etc that Hatty and WK are using(they were horrendously backwards). After taking WK down to 3 cities, and before I reached Hatty, the AP vote came up which I won. I had been 40 votes shy of the UN on the last attempt, and would probably have won with the next vote, as I'd taken a couple more Korean cities.

    Overall, pretty brutal start with all the war dec's, but rexing and holding out at the start put me in good position with some really good cities. Once I got the neighbors to pleased (besides Mehmed, who didn't have enough land to matter), it was smooth sailing the rest of the way. I probably could have finished it off with late-game domination or space race too- WK and Hatty were falling easily, and I was 2-3 techs ahead of anybody at the end.
  12. jck169

    jck169 Chieftain

    Feb 7, 2010
    First time posting, but I ran this on Monarch/Normal.

    Spoiler :
    Started scouting southward and spotted Mehmed's border. Settled my second city right next to the spice cluster to block, was a OCC for him the rest of the game. The religion situation helped out immensely. Hatty was worst enemy of just about everyone until Wang cap'd her, then it was split between those 2. That kept Rags and Hannibal off me the whole game. After democracy I was friendly with Boudica and pleased with Hannibal and Ragnar, so I Cavalry spammed against Wang and Hatty's muskets and grens. Wiped out Wang and cap'd Hatty. Then out of the blue, Boudica DOWs. I wasn't sure if she could declare from pleased, but I could have sworn ever since switching to US, she was friendly. After trading Wang's old cities a few times, I finished teching arty and cap'd her. Dom win at 1905. Oh and Rags tried to dogpile halfway through the Boudica war but got stuffed by AP resolution... built by himself.

    Attached Files:

  13. mrt309

    mrt309 Warlord

    Jan 6, 2009
    Monarch/Normal/1000 BC

    Spoiler :
    Settled 1NE to get 2 corns in BFC. Researched agriculture, mining, BW, fishing, AH, pottery, writing, beelining to monarchy. Build order in Mecca: worker, 2xwarrrior, worker, settler, worker,... Met Mehmed from south on turn 7.

    Settled Medina in 2280 BC. First i was planing to settle it to 1 SW but i saw fish&pigs and changed location:

    Then settled near gold:

    And Baghdad finally:

    The situation in 1000 BC:


    Im trying to expand without hurting my economy. I may need 2 more cities to completely block Mehmed and Boudica. Ragnar will be a problem on west. I hate AI's poor city settlement sometimes. After i settle a nice spot it usually settles a junk city around there to annoy me.
  14. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl Warlord

    Nov 16, 2001
    I'm just now starting to win on emperor; I make many silly mistakes. I welcome feedback from any of the more advanced players.

    Thanks Bigtime for hosting this series!

    Emperor/epic/huts and random events off/ to 1000 B.C.

    Spoiler :

    4000 B.C. (turn 0):
    My warrior spots corn to the east; therefore, I move 1E, settling the 2nd corn in my BFC.

    Initial tech path is agriculture, mining and bronze working. Initial builds are worker, warrior, warrior.

    I send my warrior NE to explore.

    3850 B.C. (turn 6):
    I meet Mehmed's scout at Mecca's eastern border (Mehmed is likely S or SE of me and no more than 12 squares away). He's expansive/organized and won't declare war at pleased. He's a possible rush target.

    3775 B.C. (turn 9):
    My warrior meets Wang Kong's scout. Wang is east of me, no more than 18 squares distant. Wang is financial/protective and won't declare war at pleased.

    3725 B.C. (turn 11):
    I meet Ragnar's scout at the NW border of Mecca. I guess that Ragnar is west of me. Ragnar is aggresive/financial and will declare at pleased. I'll have to be diplomatically cautious with him.
    Boudica found Buddhism.

    3700 B.C. (turn 12):
    My warrior encounter's Boudica's capital. She's only 8 squares east of me. There's a decent pig/corn block site just to the west of Boudica which I'll grab if I can. Boudica is aggressive/charismatic, but won't declare war at pleased.

    Having scouted my eastern borders, my warrior now swings south.

    3525 B.C. (turn 21):
    My warrior spots a bear along the northern coast leading to Boudica. When I grab the block site, I'll want to stay to the south.

    3450 B.C. (turn 22):
    Hannibal's scout turns up at Mecca's northern border. Hannibal is charismatic/financial and won't declare war at pleased.

    Initial Assessment:
    I've already met 5 AI's. We're all bunched together on a single continent. Grabbing land early will be key. If I cannot block off space for 6 cities or so, I'll try for a small, 3-city footprint and will take out one of my neighbors with swords/catapults (assuming I find iron).

    3400 B.C. (turn 24):
    My worker is built and begins farming corn. Mecca begins producing a warrior to help scout.

    3325 B.C. (turn 27):
    The last AI, Hapshepsut appears somewhere (I can't see her, so I guess one of her scouts found Mecca's borders and then moved into the fog of war). Hapshepsut is creative/spiritual and won't declare at pleased.

    Hinduism FIADL; I soon find out that it's Hapshepsut who founded Hinduism.

    3250 B.C. (turn 30):
    My warrior finds Mehmed's borders immediately to the south of me. He's blockable, but the blocking city will contain quite a bit of jungle in its BFC. However, the land is nice, there's a source of food (crabs) and, depending on culture pressure I'll have 1 or 2 forest/grassland squares to work without needing to clear jungle. All-in-all, I'll want to grab this site.

    2900 B.C. (turn 44):
    My warrior spots 3 separate packs of lions just to the west of Mecca. I'll try to avoid these, keeping to forests for extra defense while continuing to explore.
    It seems to me that the world-builder maps contain about twice as many animal packs as the randomly generated maps. Has anyone else noticed this?

    2800 B.C. (turn 48):
    I discover bronze working and revolt to slavery. I intend to whip out a couple settler's ASAP to block Boudica and Mehmed. One of my warriors heads towards the Boudica block site to fog-bust a path for the incoming settler.

    I switch research to pottery since I'll need a source of income soon.

    2725 B.C. (turn 49):
    My initial warrior spots Ragnar's borders to the NW. I'll need at least one city to the north to block Ragnar.

    Assessment Update 1:
    At this point, it's almost certain that I won't be able to block Boudica, Mehmed and Ragnar; even if I succeed, the rapid 4-city opening will strain my economy. It's likely that there is no copper nearby since proximate exploration is almost complete and I've yet to discover any. Hopefully this won't pose too may problems. Since I'm surrounded by AIs, barbarians should be managable with warriors. I will need to be very careful diplomatically though, since I won't have much of an army to speak of. I'm going to shoot for a 4-city opener and will beeline iron working once pottery is in.

    2675 B.C. (turn 53):
    I discover that Mehmed has already overrun my intended block site. I revise the block site northward, intending to grab cattle/crabs in its BFC. Since Mehmed is moving towards me, I'll block him first, before settling other sites.

    2575 B.C. (turn 55):
    I whip a settler and immediately begin work on a second settler - my economy is going to tank!

    2400 B.C. (turn 64):
    I tentatively identify the location for my 4th city. I found a nice 2-gold source that I want to work. To pull this off I'll need to settle one off the coast; although the 2 water tiles in my BFC will be useless due to this position, the early gold to keep my economy afloat more that compensates for this shortfall.

    2350 B.C. (turn 66):
    A barbarian city is founded right where I wanted to block Boudica. Honestly, this confuses me somewhat. Supposedly, barbarians won't spawn within a 5-by-5 square centered on any unit. The barbarian city, however, is clearly within the 5-by-5 sqaure surrounding my warrior. Does this mean that a barbarian settler spawned a bit further from my warrior and then moved to create the city? Or perhaps, the 5-by-5 grid inhibits unit spawns but does not inhibit city spawns. I guess that I could have prevented the city from spawning where it did by stationing my warrior directly on top of my intended city site; however, I intentionally positioned the warrior where he is to provide fog busting along the route of a settler incoming from Mecca.

    The barbarian city spawn isn't all bad news though. It's on a hill, which means that Boudica will have a very tough time taking it. Meanwhile, I hope that the barbarian city will serve to cut off Boudica's expansion towards me.

    I also spot a barbarian archer to the north of Mecca. I had hoped to avoid barbarians altogether given the number of AIs near me; but with care, I should be able to fend them off with some warriors.

    Assessment Update 2:
    The barbarian city spawn means that I don't need 4 cities after all. I may settle just 3 initially. Moreover, the appearance of babarians means that I'll need to get some defense out quickly. Therefore, I plan to finish the settler currently under production, then build 2 or 3 warriors before switching to some workers. If, after all that, a decent city site is still available, I'll consider taking it.

    Note: At this stage of the game, barbarians tend to behave somewhat like animal packs. That is, they tend to be somewhat territorial and won't usually beeline to attack cities. This will buy me some time to get my defense in place.

    Given that Ragnar will declare at pleased, I'd prefer to kill him off first, all other things being equal. Ragnar's build unit probability (BUP) is 40 though, so it's likely he'll start spamming units soon. Mehmed's BUP is also 40 whereas Boudica's is 30. I'm going to weight my espionage 1:1:1 to keep track of Ragnar's, Boudica's and Mehmed's war strength. If I get iron, I'll probably just strike out against my weakest opponent, again preferring to attack Ragnar if possible.

    Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Mehmed, Ragnar, Boudica and Hannibal (all 3 of my neighbor's dislike her). I will not be opening borders with Hatshepsut anytime soon.
    Ragnar is the worst enemy of Wang Kon. If Wang and Ragnar go to war, I might be able to dogpile Ragnar. I will open borders with Ragnar, since I'm going to be sharing borders with him.
    Boudica is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut. But since everyone hates Hatshepsut and since Boudica is my neigher whereas Hatshepsut is not, I will open borders with Boudica if asked.
    I probably won't open borders with Mehmed, at least initially, until the religious situation becomes clearer.

    2275 B.C. (turn 69):
    Wang Kon asks for open borders. Since he's likely to get into a row with Ragnar I turn him down for now.

    2150 B.C. (turn 74)
    Damascus, my third city is founded. Mecca continues to spam warriors. I'm very careful to battle barbarians within forests (+50% defense) or forest/hills (+ 75% defense). I'm able to kill off 2 barbarian warriors in this fashion, sustaining no losses.

    1000 B.C. (turn 120):
    At 1100 B.C. I discover IW and switch to animal husbandry. There are 2 sources of iron nearby, but none within a BFC. I whip out a settler Mecca had been working on for this purpose and claim a source of iron.

    Ragnar is WHEOUHRN and his strength is twice mine. I quickly open borders with him (I should have done this earlier!) and hope for the best. Although Ragnar dislikes Hatshepsut more than me, I could easily be his target.

    Once an AI enters WHEOUHRN, is it too late to change the intended target via diplomacy? I seem to recall a civfanatics thread somewhere about this. At any rate, I'm going to gift a few gold to Ragnar next turn if he doesn't attack me.

    I'm 2nd in land (I really didn't expect this with just 4 cities) but dead last in soldiers. If I manage not to get declared on by Ragnar, I'll soon have a swordsmen army in place. My economy is still very poor. I'll need to hook up the cattle I have and put down a few hamlets to support my fledgling force. I'll also work both gold sites near Damascus to help stay afloat.


    Attached Files:

  15. parachute4u

    parachute4u Warlord

    Dec 9, 2003
    Monarch/epic: I really like that Saladin guy.
    Spoiler :

    I settled one north of the start to get more production and founded my 2nd city really close while scouting my neighbors.

    I chopped out the pyramids in my 3rd city claiming the stone. This city turned into a wonder-building MONSTER and this one city did ALL my research for the entire game AND provided me with all the great people I ever needed. I also build the Great library there. Here is a screenshot that is interesting because it shows how Oxford can be completed really fast without working hammer tiles xD

    The city in the screenshot has WALLS and in the early game after building the Pyramids it built the Great Library while under siege by Ragnar!

    The situation in 350 BC
    Spoiler :

    Other wonders:
    • Hanging Gardens and University of Sangkore (together with the ´mids) in Damascus)
    • Apostolic Palace and Parthenon
    • Taj Mahal (chopped in my "commerce" town)
    • Mausoleum of Mausolos (!) 3x15 turns of Golden Age is totally awesome!

    With all this wonder building my early expansion really sucked so I had to fight three wars vs Ragnar to avoid getting choked.

    Here`s a pic of the general situation in 1000 AD
    Spoiler :

    After completing the Pyramids my research really improved and I was able to get a slight tech lead with engineering and Civil Service by burning a great engineer to lightbulb engineering and (at the same time) burning a Great Scientist to get a Golden Age to REALLY crank out trebuchets and maces. I revolted into Police state during my golden age and every city started to build anti-Ragnar units...

    Ragnar who had been sieging my wonder-city with tons of catapults and elephants ealier (he beelines to construction in every game I play vs him!) went down in flames because my HE capital in police state/war-mode was able to build so many trebs and maces that he lost 2 cities and his capital in 8 turns of blitzkrieg.

    This offensive war vs Ragnar was possible because of Saladins spiritual trait: I was constantly switching religions to get "presents" from Buodicar and Hannibal (and Mehmed)
    I also switched in and out of vassalage and police state to boost research or build military like crazy. After finally having an army to vassalize Ragnar the game was basically won and I proceeded to vassalize Mehmed and Boudicar with MANY trebs and maces.

    Here`s a pic of my capital
    Spoiler :

    Building the madrassa there was a waste of hammers because I didn´t run any specialists in that city. Starting in 1000 BC, Mecca build
    • Axes vs Ragnar
    • Chariots vs Ragnar
    • Swords vs Ragnar
    • Horse Archers vs Ragnar
    • Cats vs Ragnar
    • Spears vs Ragnar
    • Trebs vs Ragnar
    • Maces vs Ragnar
    and afterwards Mecca continued to build even more Trebs and even more Maces. No market, no temple, nothing, I didn´t even build a university there! (whipped most of them in my conquered cities just to get the required amount)

    Achieved Victory in 1760 by vassalizing everyone except Hannibal :)

    Of course it´s only Monarch but it was fun to see how my best 2 cities were nearly constantly building military and how the Great Library+parthenon+national epic took care of all the research :)
  16. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl Warlord

    Nov 16, 2001
    1000 B.C to 1050 A.D.:

    Spoiler :

    975 B.C. (turn 121):
    Hannibal asks for open borders. Since most AIs have yet to adopt a religion, I refuse for now.

    It transpires that I cannot gift gold to Ragnar (does this require that I've discovered Currency?). I'm not feeling good about my chances to avoid a declaration of war.

    925 B.C. (turn 123):
    Ragnar discovers The Alphabet. I quickly gift Mysticism to him and hope for the best.

    850 B.C. (turn 126):
    Ragnar's SOD approaches. I'm so dead!

    800 B.C. (turn 128):
    A miracle! Ragnar's SOD enters my borders en route to who knows where. Perhaps I'll yet live.

    Meanwhile, Hannibal takes some nearby land.

    700 B.C. (turn 132):
    Iron is hooked up. I begin building an army.

    525 B.C. (turn 139):
    I trade Bronze Working and Pottery to Wang Kon for Writing and Hunting.

    425 B.C. (turn 143):
    Ragnar declares war on Wang Kon. Boudica is WHEOUHRN. I continue building swordsmen.

    290 B.C. (turn 154):
    A little exploration reveals that Mehmed's position is untenable. He has only 2 cites and no source of iron. I'm going to take his cities soon.

    Meanwhile, Ragnar is worrisome. He's got more land than I do, lots of units and is teching aggresively. But first things first; I need to take Mehmed's cities.

    140 B.C. (turn 164):
    Boudica's missionaries spread Buddhism to Mecca. I quickly convert since all my neighbors except Hannibal are Buddhist.

    Meanwhile, spys (from Hannibal?) keep poisoning my water supplies. So help me Hannibal!... :)

    25 A.D. (turn 175):
    Mehmed breathes his last.

    Istanbul is home to the Temple of Artimis; a bit of serendipity to bolster my woeful economy.

    I beg Fishing off of Boudica and Meditation from Ragnar to better my tech position and to buy a few turns of peace.

    My position remains fragile. I'm 4th in land (though this could improve once Mehmed's former cities come out of revolt) and very behind in tech. It will take careful play if I'm to prevail.

    Assessment Update 3:
    In my book, anyone who attacks at pleased is a psychopath. That said, my relationship with Ragnar is much improved. Since Ragnar shares a large border with Hannibal, and since Hannibal is Confucianist (Ragnar is Buddhist), it's reasonable to hope that Ragnar's next target will be Hannibal.

    I'm going to reweight my espionage 2 Hannibal:1 Boudica. If an attack comes, I expect it from Hannibal since we don't share religions yet share a border. I'll try to remain on Hannibal's good side, though, since I rather doubt I'm in position to attack him yet. I gift Hannibal wheat since I'm Hannibal's least favorite civilization (but not his worst enemy). Hopefully I'll be able to open borders with him soon.

    I've got some gold saved up from my war with Mehmed. I can get Aesthetics in 10 turns and, with luck, none of the AIs will have researched it. I intend to shop Aesthetics around to begin to catch up in tech.

    There's room for at least 2 more cities to my north if I hurry. I switch production in both Mecca and Damascus to settlers; I'll whip them out as soon as I'm able.

    My plan for the next few turns is to grab a few more cities, bolster my economy and begin to catch up in tech. Though all victory conditions remain possible, I'm not inclined to pursue peaceful outcomes with Ragnar as my neighbor. I fear he will attack me sooner or later. I might as well pursue domination since I'll likely need a large army in any event.

    175 A.D. (turn 185):
    I beat everyone to Aesthetics and, as planned, shop it to catch up in tech. Boudica is nice enough to trade Alphabet for Aesthetics; I get Mathematics from Ragnar; and Wang Kon provides Sailing, Priesthood and Masonry. I gift Aesthetics and trade corn for bananas with Hannibal who still refuses to open borders with me.

    I'm able to settle both cities to the north, moving me into 3rd place for land.

    Boudica and Ragnar continue to spam units. Wang Kon and Ragnar are both WHEOUHRN.

    205 A.D. (turn 187):
    Wang Kon declares on Boudica. At first I thought Wang was absolutely crazy (a few turns ago, Wang didn't have iron); however, he's since found iron and, with luck, won't be consumed by Boudica's army.

    Meanwhile, Boudica founds Isca in a location which one can only assume has been carefully calculated to spark border tensions. Fortunately I'm still well-liked by Boudica and can probably remain friendly even with some diplomatic hits for close borders.

    A look at techs reveals that Wang Kon wants Mathematics. Even though Wang is now Boudica's worst enemy, I'm going to risk the trade. I want Monotheism and this looks like the time to grab it. Curiously, I don't accumulate any "you traded with our worst enemy" demerits from Boudica once the trade goes through.

    475 A.D. (turn 205)
    I continue my slow crawl towards economic recovery. I'm beelining Currency for the extra trade routes and, with luck, to trade to the other AIs.

    Hannibal finally opens borders with me. I cancel my free wheat trade with him and resume it for 5g/turn.

    535 A.D. (turn 209)
    My first great person appears. It's a Great Merchant. I've been remiss running specialists in an attempt to get my economy going. I start running 2 scientists in Mecca, Damascus and Baghdad.

    I'm 6 turns away from Currency (which the merchant can bulb); but I'm nearly finished researching Currency so I decide against this.

    If I'm able to get Currency soon, I may be able to trade it to Wang Kon for Metal Casting (after a bit of research into MC myself). This would mean that I could bulb Code of Laws with the merchant which is currently very tradable. I hold onto the merchant and hope for the best.

    625 A.D. (turn 215):
    Wang won't trade Metal Casting for Currency yet. Meanwhile, Hatshepsut makes a tempting offer.

    Although I desperately need Monarchy, Hatshepsut is Hannibal's worst enemy and I'm having extreme difficulty keeping Hannibal from disliking me; it's also foreseeable that once I trade CUrrency to Hatshepsut, she'll immediately trade it to Wang Kon. I'm going to wait a couple of turns and if Wang still won't trade Metal Casting, I'll make the deal with Hatshepsut.

    640 A.D. (turn 216):
    Wang demands that I stop trading with Ragnar. After I refuse him, he'll no longer trade with me.

    I'm not in a good position here and need to take some risks. I offer Currency to Hatshepsut for Metal Casting and she accepts! Once again, this fails to trigger any demerits with Hannibal. I thought that any trade with someone's worst enemy automatically results in "you traded with our worst enemy" penalties, but apparently this isn't so.

    I bulb Code of Laws with my merchant but need to wait until next turn to trade it (I've no idea why it's programmed this way; researched technologies are immediately tradable on the turn you discover them).

    655 A.D. (turn 217):
    I trade MC and CoL to Boudica for Monarcy and Calendar. For some reason, Ragnar doesn't want to trade any of his techs to me just yet (I hope this doesn't mean he wants to DoW on me).

    As strange as it seems, The Pyramids still haven't been built. I decide to take a shot at them.

    775 A.D. (turn 225):
    Ragnar offers Literature and some gold to me for CoL. I accept the trade.

    910 A.D. (turn 236):
    I build The Pyramids. I have no idea what's going on in this crazy game!

    I switch to Representation/Caste System, and start running a lot of scientist specialists in Istanbul.

    940 A.D. (turn 239):
    A great scientist pops. I can bulb Philosphy with him, found an Academy or begin a Golden Age. I decide on the later to help grow my civilization and to get to Civil Service quicker.

    960 A.D. (turn 241):
    I discover Civil Service and immediately adopt bureaucracy.

    1030 A.D. (turn 248):
    I discover Philosophy. I get 240g from Ragnar for it (I guess he's almost done researching Philosphy himself because he won't trade anything useful for it), Feudalism from Boudica and Paper from Hatshepsut. I continue trading with Hatshepsut with impunity; it's most peculiar.

    1050 A.D. (turn 250):
    I trade Paper to Hannibal for Machinary and this triggers "we feel you are becomming too advanced" from all the AIs.

    Ragnar declares on Wang and Hannibal dogpiles. I refuse to join the fray at this point, badly needing to gain some sort of military technological advantage against at least one of my opponents.

    Assessment Update 4:
    I've managed to catch up somewhat in tech and my economy is taking off. Originally I had planned to beeline Liberalism, but, on closer inspection, I think that's rather risky. Hannibal and/or Ragnar could declare on me at any time which would ruin any chance I have at winning. Instead, I'm going to beeline gunpowder/rifling. I hope to get some land off one of the AIs using powder units of some sort.

    My land advantage is now gone.

    I hope that Wang survives the dogpile; I don't want his land going to either Ragnar or Hannibal.

    I trade maps around making some gold and gaining a better picture of everyone's territory. It appears that Wang may have quite a bit of land. He'll more than likely be able to fend off Ragnar and Hannibal.

    Based on land alone, both Ragnar and Hannibal appear to be vulnerable. I'll probably target one of them should the opportunity arise.

    Although my army is pathetic, someone else has a very small army as well. This bodes well for me if I can survive until powder units come online.

    I should give some thought to city specialization at this point. I was spamming cottages for quite awhile, trying to get my economy rolling again.


    Attached Files:

  17. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

    Jun 18, 2003
    Hidden Underground Volcano Lair
    I'll try and start this as a religious game tonight. I plan on going 1 E to settle on the green hill. AG>Mining>Pottery, then up the religious line. I might build SH depending on how the land lies and how close the enemies are.
  18. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

    May 6, 2008
    In the clouds
    Emp Normal - Inteligent AI play?? 750BC turn 75.

    Spoiler :

    Oracle for Philo?? or CoL then a bulb? I don't get it, this is too clever for the AI surely :lol:

    anyone shed some light?
  19. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

    Feb 8, 2010
    Played on Emperor/Normal, up to 850 BC:

    Since it's now a Monarch+ save, does that mean that it is no longer necessary to give the Barbs Archery? I didn't do that because I don't know how, but they seemed to come at me with a lot of warriors so I guess they didn't have it.

    Spoiler :

    I settled 1 NE, not only for the extra corn, the extra city production, and the added city defense, but I also prefer to cottage that riverside grassland tile rather than settle on it. This city will be pretty decent at commerce with those grasslands, but it will also have plenty of production.

    I'm thinking I might go culture with Saladin. If so this is a great city for cottages and to build a few wonders in. I don't actually like to build world wonders, but a few of them could come in handy.

    I scouted around and found Mehmed to the south and Boudica and Ragnar to the North. WKong and Hanny also scouted me, but so far I don't know where they came from except it wasn't past Mehmed. Boudica founded Buddhism, and none of the ones I met founded Hindu so when Buddhism spread to me I converted, since with Saladin I can always switch back at any time.

    I saw that I could block both Mehmed and Boudica with one city each. So I set my first priority to do that. There's a lot of nice land around me, including a double gold/FPlains city which I want.

    I teched Ag>Mining>BW, then I went Pott>Writing right away because the two blocking cities weren't that close to my capitol and I wanted to be able to build cottages early and I didn't want my science to bog down. Then I picked up Fishing & AH to work a few specials by my new cities.

    I went to block Boudica first as the spot to block Mehmed had some jungle and I thought he might not settle there as quickly. But she gets to the good spot first.
    So I settle in a much worse spot, but it is on a hill and does have some food and does block her off.

    Here's my second city blocking Boudica to the NE:

    Then lowered the slider and worked my capitol cottage tiles immediately when they were built and raised it again to finish writing ASAP.

    Next I settled south towards Mehmed. The spot far south with the sea food and 3 sugar and grassland would have been a great city, but he'd already got there since I went the other way first, so I settled for a hill city with cow and sea food though it was one off the coast. I whipped monuments, granaries, and then started working on Madrassas in these border cities to maintain the seal and help with running specialists maybe.

    Here's my third city, settled to block Mehmed:

    The barbarians founded my gold city in the exact place I would have put it. How convenient.

    Here it is:

    Upon scouting more I found Ragnar up to the NW. I saw that one city could block his route to the south and he'd have to expand across the tundra up north to get to me. So I decided to place another blocking city, although this one was a pretty decent city with a bunch of grassland. Actually looking at this picture now I realize I meant to settle 1S from this spot to be on the river. Oops. This city was pretty far too, but it would provide commerce so it might be ok, and then I'd have everybody pretty well blocked and I could take more land. He had a settler two tiles away when I settled.

    Here's my fourth city blocking Ragnar (you can see his Archer/Settler in the top left):

    In my capitol when I wasn't building workers or settlers I built a bunch of warriors and sent them out to protect me from barbs, but I guess they didn't have archery so they weren't so bad. I will add archery to the barbs in the future if someone tells me how. And when I got pottery I chopped my riverland grass tiles to build a granary in my capitol. And I whipped/chopped a Madrassa in the capitol and ran a scientist when I had enough pop to still work the cottages.

    So I have a nice piece of area to work with and my economy hasn't tanked badly and the barbs are protecting one of my good city locations for me. I might just settle and capture the good sites I have and focus on teching and defending while growing cottages for later culture slider use. I'll also try to set up a GP Farm for running artists.

  20. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

    Oct 6, 2005
    Decided to give this one a shot.

    Immortal/Normal to 1AD

    Spoiler :

    I'm fairly new to Immortal, so I'm still getting used to the higher maintenance costs, etc.

    The game has gone alright. My economy was in the tubes for a while now (and it still isn't great despite working the 2 golds). I switched to Confucianism after Hanny switched to Xianity (from Buddhism) and it spread to me. I would have settled the marble city or iron city if I could have afforded it. So archers and mounted units will have to do until Baghdad's borders pop again.

    Ragnar has just gone into WHEOOHRN mode the last few turns. I'm expecting a DOW from him and I'm hoping to hold him off with promoted archers and chariots (the likely target city is behind a river and on top of a hill). If that is indeed his stack, it's 3HA's, 1 cat, 1 chariot, 2 swords, 1 axe minus whatever he leaves behind for garrison. I'll probably put a couple more archers there and whip a wall if necessary. I've also gifted a city to Hanny in the middle of Ragnar's domain hoping to stir up some tension down the road and earning some diplomatic points in the process.

    Some screenies:


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