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Monarch Student^ XX Genghis Khan

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by BigTime, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Monarch Student Prime is up to the twenties now! Our leader for number 20? Itss KHANNNNNNNNNN:



    Genghis Khan is a prolific warmongerer. His trait set isn't spectacular, in fact by most polls he should be one of the weakest leaders. Luckily he has one of the best, if not THE best UU/UB combo in the game.

    His UU is the Keshik:



    A horse archer that ignores terrain movement costs and that comes with a free first strike. Easily top 5 material in my eyes. Combine this with a ger and get ready for some beatdowns. Let's see if the map host gave us horses though. :p

    His UB is the Ger:



    A stable replacement that provide two more experience points than a stable. Ridiculous paired with the keshik. This provides 6 exp keshiks (2 promos) out of the gates, leading to some awesome beatdown potential.

    The start:



    Ewww. Unless there is a magic irrigated corn in the fog, food is lacking. We do have marble though, allowing for a possible Oracle/Aesthetics line wonders. Unfortunately it looks like there are not going to be horses in the BFC. What a shame :p

    Fractal map this time

    Huts and Events are OFF, add events in the custom scenario if you wish. (just make sure to cover the top part with your hand so you don't see the AIs :p)

    And a cut-and-paste from Meatbuster's Monarch Student games:

    Save the file and place it in your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then unzip it into your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then use Playing a scenario to play your desired level. Or use custom scenario if you want to remove huts and/or events.

    Recommended Checkpoints:
    *1000BC or 1AD
    *500AD
    *1000AD or Liberalism
    *Victory!

    Please remember to put the journals of your adventures inside spoiler tags.

    For Monarch+ players please try to add archery back to the barbs in WB. If you don't, AIs will capture cities with archers very early in the game, which is no fun. If you prefer easymode barbs, that's fine too, just don't go wondering why an AI captured a barb city in the very early BCs!

    Thanks go to TMIT for making an excellent map creation guide and to mjg5591 for getting this series back on track!

    And finally, the save!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Immortal/normal to 1AD

    Spoiler :


    Settled in place, horses close. Settled 2 cities, although 1 was marginal, and pumped out chariots/keshiks to hit justinian. Chariots took his first two cities, then keshiks took the rest:





    Dangling on strike? Who cares, onto Sury!



    Most he had was 3 archers in his cap. He has ToA in his cap, which I hope will spit me out a GM to recover my straggling economy.



    Huayna is too far away to wipe with keshiks, but they have served their purpose. Once I hit Alpha, it's game over.

    Lands:



    Once I build research to currency, I should be fine.

     
  3. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    It's an interesting game....

    Immortal/normal to liberalism (ahem 1580 AD :p)

    Spoiler :


    After all that land, I was in strike until I could get Alpha and get to currency. All my workers were disbanded, and much of military was too. :eek: Although this may seem bad, I took out 2 AIs. This means only 3 AIs were left. Monty was isolated on his own huge island, and Hammy + Ram shared an island. Basically, there was no tech trading going on the entire game pre- optics. I lots lib by two turns, I bet you won't guess to who:



    :sad: Yes, the isolated monty. Plan from here is UN. Hammy and Ram can be befriended easily enough by OR + NSR + Bureau, and I still may be able to get Huayna's vote through HR.

    Lands:



    Keshiks cause this, just saying. Nah, I just was lazy and autoed workers early and they just spammed cottages. Good enough.


     
  4. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Immortal/normal to 1908 UN. One of my worst games ever that ended in a win:

    Spoiler :


    I beelined MM and gifted it to Hammu. The annoying thing is that he built it in his worst crap city! I was lucky though, and he got a GE rush for it. This made it so me + Inca + Ram was enough, just barely:



    If that didn't work, I would've nuked monty down pop points until he wouldn't have any pop to vote with. It took forever for Hammy to build UN. Huayna was running away with the game at the end, I regret not keshiking him to death as well.



    Crap score reflects the crap game. I could have won dom, but I didn't feel like a slog or warring. Or micro for that matter.

     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    BT

    Spoiler :
    Curious what your tech order was to start. I played Emperor and took out Justin with chariots and a couple of axe. Economy was so crappy I could not even get to HBR in time to take the fight to Sury, plus I lost too many chariots at BS odds to Just's archers. Lost my entire army and most workers (to strike) while still teching HBR. One problem was the lack even crap commerce tiles in the area. In hindsight, I probably should have delayed Myst until after HBR.
     
  6. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Lymond

    Spoiler :


    I believe I went Agri-AH-Mining-BW-HBR-Archery-Mysticism-Pottery-Writing. I lost most of my army and my workers to strike as well, and I had to whip libraries and run scientists just to get to alpha. But losing all those workers really hurt. I delayed mysticism, but HBR took like 33 turns, so I started rushing Justin with chariots.

     
  7. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

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    lymond / BigTime

    Spoiler :
    lymond, you have my sympathies...and my empathy. I played the start on monarch and found it none too easy to beat Justinian with chariots – so I can well imagine that you had difficulty on emperor. For the record, my city settlement was similar to BigTime’s in that I settled two cities, one for the horse / rice site and another for the rice / cows / copper in the north, before chopping and whipping chariots. However, the early tech path was quite different: agriculture > AH > mining > masonry (all for the BFC’s resources) > BW (to chop trees and for slavery) > pottery (to help with whipping efficiency in a mediocre :food: capital) archery > mysticism > writing. I was intending to go HBR after archery but, like you, I noticed the economy was crashing big time (no pun intended! :lol:) even though I razed both of Justinian’s cities en route to his capital, so changed the plan to mysticism (to pop borders) > writing > HBR. I’m now hoping that HAs will be enough to take down Sury and that a few science specialists will keep the economy afloat...fingers crossed!

    All that said, like you, I was also wondering what BigTime’s early tech path was: in the light of BigTime’s screenies, my playthrough and the faster pace at which you can tech on monarch compared to emperor (which makes my game easier), I’d also be very interested in knowing (i) at what point archery and HBR were researched [edit: BT - thanks for answering this in your post above, your reply to lymond just beat my post] and (ii) to help me learn a little more, BigTime, how often is that kind of beeline employed in games played as GK?

    Many thanks. :)
     
  8. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    @ Learner

    Spoiler :


    For question 2, if you have horses that beeline can be used VERY frequently. I picked up a lot of what I know from the thread TMIT posted on Keshiks (though I decided not to go all out cavalry for the win) :

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=332762

    What really hurt me in this game was not having anybody to trade with. I was considering spawning the island to the NE as a colony just for trade purposes, but Huayna to friendly was easy enough. The problem was that he was the tech leader by far, so I really didn't have anything to trade. Also, my empire was all over the place, and it was only until I hit democracy that my tech rate was good b/c i ran mass cottages to pay for everything. That shows in the finish date.

    On a final note, I also prefer KK to GK. Creative is MUCH better than IMP when going keshiks.

     
  9. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Guys
    Spoiler :

    Settle the river and put up some cottages. You'll get HBR easily. And with IMP I didn't bother rushing Keshiks out, I settled everything north of the jungle since there was a lot of great cottageable land, including grabbing the stone and fur next to HC.
     
  10. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

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    Thanks to Grashopa and BigTime. :goodjob: The spoiler is to 780AD (at monarch / normal) where a little help would be appreciated. :) Many thanks.

    Spoiler :
    Grashopa: Many thanks for the tip re: the alternative way of playing (ie. settling towards HC). If I get the time, I might even try a re-run at some point to see how it changes the game. On this occasion however, it wasn’t possible for me to play this way because early exploration suffered when I lost my scout and a warrior in that region (d’oh!) As a result, when I discovered Justinian, I was more inclined to simply take him out with chariots...Constantinople is one fine city though.:)

    Your point about delaying the timing of the keshik rush is also very well made. In fact, it’s the reason I asked the second question I did to BigTime in my earlier post. (BTW, thanks for your reply BigTime, TMIT’s thread was very, very good reading. :goodjob:) In the past, my limited experience with HA rushes has been based on getting 3 or 4 cities and some infrastructure up before letting them loose, because their base strength 6 and the AI’s tendency to under-produce spears means that, IMHO, you have a little time to get them out. That’s why reading BigTime’s first post where keshiks were beelined from the off was so informative...I’d literally never thought of that before.:)

    All that said, I think things are starting to look up for the Mongolian empire at last.:) After managing to take out Justinian with chariots (as per my previous post), I researched fishing (to access Constantinople’s seafood), and then meditation > priesthood, so that I could leverage Sury’s missionary spam by (i) recovering the economy with monasteries (in addition to libraries) and (ii) increase happiness by whipping in some temples. Next up came sailing (for trade routes with HC and the ability to build galleys to protect Constantinople’s seafood) and, with some breathing space under a slightly higher happy cap thanks to adopting Hinduism and building temples, HBR (to start building / 2 pop whipping / chopping gers and keshiks). Then I made it to monarchy to solve the :) issue once and for all – thus providing more room to accumulate a little whip :mad: as more keshiks were massed. I also got very lucky en route when gems popped in one of my cities to increase :) and commerce...the increase in the latter enabled me to get to monarchy in time to trade it to HC for maths (to open up currency). Next up came IW (to start clearing the jungle to get the extra :food: from the unimproved banana tiles...the iron in Constantinople was a bonus) > currency (which I traded to HC for calendar to access the silk and bananas, and Sury’s dyes :)) and now its onto CoL. I still don’t have alphabet but, IMHO, an early monarchy was better for me here since it allowed me to work more cottages across the empire.

    That takes us onto 700AD where, echoing your thoughts Grashopa and my limited experience (which is why I fancied the start) - about having time to get out the HAs - I decided to let a horde of keshiks loose on Sury. I have to say, in the process, the ger (which again I don’t have much experience with), proved worth its weight in gold. Its ability to provide flanking two promotions to new keshiks out of the gate enabled quite a few keshiks to withdraw and fight another day. And those battle hardened keshiks proved decisive in taking Sury’s capital in 780AD when a very stubborn spear (yes, Sury traded for iron from HC...and HC will pay for that in due course :lol:) threatened to save Sury from extinction. Fortunately for Khan however, Sury’s spear is now in the afterlife...along with his master. Yes, Sury’s been defeated in 780AD with nothing more than keshiks and the odd chariot. So it’s time to start plotting HC’s downfall...and this is where I could really use some help. :)

    In brief, the save reveals that the economy’s crashed (as in I’m losing 13 GPT at zero slider), but I’m comfortable that whipping a few markets and courthouses (which the cash from Sury’s demise will help to research) can help me avoid a strike. (The GLH in Sury’s capital will also help when Yasodharapura comes out of revolt.:D) As a result, my questions for the good folk here are threefold: (a) what to research next after CoL (b) what to do with my second GG and (c) how to plot the demise of HC?

    As far as (a) is concerned, researching civil service (en route to liberalism) is the obvious choice, but there’s also the option of teching aesthetics > polytheism > literature. After all, unless I relocate the capital, bureaucracy isn’t going to be great here (although chain irrigation will help Beshbalik) – but literature leverages the marble and opens up the Epics (and the NE could really help with getting a GS to bulb to liberalism or getting a great prophet or two to shrine both of Sury’s holy cities.) Going via aesthetics also has the very handy advantage of opening up music for military tradition and the more advanced horseback units. I’m actually inclined to go literature as a result before civil service...but what do the more experienced folks here think? As far as my 2nd GG is concerned, I’m thinking settle him in Beshbalik...although Constantinople is a great :hammers: city. It’s just that being coastal, I may want to keep Constantinople producing a navy rather than land based troops. As far as HC is concerned, my thoughts at this point are cuirassiers or cavalry. However, whilst I have some experience with the latter, I have zilch with cuirassiers (which is why I picked this save to play – maybe I’ll get to use them after all.) What do the good folk here think...onto liberalism > nationalism after a detour via literature – assuming the economy can recover in time?

    Thanks for any and all suggestions. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    learner
    Spoiler :

    Yeah with HAs you don't really have to rush them, so your focus should be on your economy and tech pace. It sounds like you are going slow here so I'd look at getting the National Epic up for some great scientists bulbing.

    Go 100% slider and grab Code of Laws and get courthouses everywhere. You have workers farming over cottages, you don't want that. Get literature and put the NE in Yasodphur that city can run 6 or 7 scientists. Then go straight for astronomy. If you can get 3 GS's bulb optics and then 2 on astronomy. Your trade routes to the other continent will be huge.

    Build wealth as well. Don't bother with markets - you get 150 gold in the time it takes to build the market and if you get some more workers, cottage up and use your wealth building to get techs now you will be better off.

    Oh yeah - you forgot to focus your EP. From the start you can guess that HC would be the best one to focus on. You'd have enough EPs to steal 1000 beakers worth of tech from him by now.

     
  12. ForGreatJustice

    ForGreatJustice Master of the Grump

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    I have a noobish question, how do you exactly direct EP against a leader?:rolleyes:
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Go to espionage screen (red button at top right) and you will see +/- buttons next to each AI in the list on the left side of the screen. These +/- buttons allow you to adjust the weight of your total EPs focused toward each AI. For instance, in this game, press the + once next to HC and all EPs are focused to HC. Press the + next to Sury and now your EPs are split in half between HC and Sury.
     
  14. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

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    @BigTime: I'm really curious why is this thread called Monarch Student (as opposed to "immortal student" or even "emperor/prince/noble/warlord student" or maybe "generic civ student" :) What is it here which makes it Monarch? Wouldn't it make more sense to play Monarch Student games on Monarch difficulty (and probably emphasizing decisions based on differences between Prince & Monarch)? ;)

    (Ofcourse you can do whatever you like, it's just a suggestion... and I no longer play Monarch myself anyway).
     
  15. ForGreatJustice

    ForGreatJustice Master of the Grump

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    :eek:

    (That says it all)
     
  16. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Because many players play this series at monarch. We have a noble/prince series and an immortal series. This series fills the gap. Granted, I do play on immortal these days, but when MS^ started I was a monarch-level player. AIshizuka in the old MS games played the first at monarch, then went to emperor and eventually immortal. I can't stay at one level! :lol:
     
  17. Nothingontv

    Nothingontv Warlord

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    Emperor-normal couldn’t win this.

    Spoiler :


    I’ll try to keep this short because after the initial start not much happened.

    Like some of the others I chariot rushed Justin who had 4 cities at that time. When he still had 1 city left I noticed Sury still only had 2 cities so I decided to rush him as well before I finished of Justin.
    I kept all of Justin’s cities as well of the capital of Sury.

    Now I only had that Incan guy left on the continent, but because my economy was totally busted I could not afford to settle many cities for a long time. To make matters worse he refused to trade techs with me even though he was pleased with me the entire game.

    In the end I settled the south end of the continent and he the north end, plus he settled the islands in the north-east and on my south coast.

    I kept struggling to catch up in tech but I just couldn’t keep up. After meeting the other civs I was declared on by Hammurabi and he took Constantinople which I took back the next turn.
    The war lasted a bit longer but he couldn’t get enough troops across the ocean.

    Montezuma became a vassal of Hyuana.

    By now Hyuana was so far ahead in both tech and power that I gave up. I tried beelining to the internet but he built it 40 years before I even reached computers.

    It would probably have been better if I hadn’t attacked Sury so soon.



     
  18. mrt309

    mrt309 Warlord

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    Monarch/Normal/4000 BC - 1 AD

    Spoiler :
    Settled in place. Researched worker techs and found horses very close. Settled second city near horses and chariot rushed Justinian.


    Free worker


    His first city fell easily


    Capital too



    He had built the oracle


    I blocked Surya


    Economy was terrible. So i settled near gems.


    I settled my first gp


    I have 2 settlers ready to settle. But i haven't settled them yet because of economy. I will settle when i recover my economy or if i see Surya's settler approaching. I am gonna convert to Buddhism soon. It spread to me pretty late. Then i am planing to follow aesthetics/literature path. I want to build the great library. Nobody has alphabet yet. Elephants/Cats against Surya seems possible.

    South:


    North:


    Demo screen:


    Relations:
     

    Attached Files:

  19. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    Spoiler :
    This is why I love these threads. I recently started playing Monarch and striking workers and Keshiks would be enough to send me packing and start a new game.:) It's great seeing very good players tank their economy and know they can still win the game.

    Gives me confidence for my next game.
     
  20. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    1882AD domination, monarch/normal:

    Spoiler :

    Settled in place, built worker while teching AG, AH, mining, BW, myst, masonry, writing. Settled SW to grab the horses, met the neighbors, and strating building chariots to take out Justinian. The DOW came in 1360BC:


    I probably should have waited for another 4 chariots, as his first city was on a hill and I lost a bunch taking it. Whatever.:rolleyes: He fell in 925BC. I kept 2 of his cities and razed the banana/gem spot in the jungle (I wouldn't have IW for a while, and it would just be a drain on the economy).

    I settled Turfan to the west of Karakorum to grab the copper, and started chopping out the mids in the capital:


    They were finished in 400BC. I ran 2 scientists in 3 cities to get to alpha, then built research towards currency. I switched to rep, which greatly helped research, and traded alpha around for a few techs while heading for HBR to unlock the UU (200BC).


    Tech path after HBR was IW, CoL, math. Scouting Surya showed that he had no metals or horses, so I built keshiks for a DoW. HC declared on him first in 275AD, and I jumped in the next turn. I beat HC to all of his cities (keshiks are great for that :) ), then took peace for techs (poly, sailing, aesth) in 425AD when he was down to 1 city. HC finished him off shortly thereafter. BTW, HC had a TON of spears - pretty unusual for an AI.

    I teched lit next and built the GLib in Constantinople in 700AD. This became my GP farm, producing a ton of GSs. Techs were calendar, meditation, phil (bulb), music, CS, and I went on a wonder building spree: MoM, parth, SP, AW. I used the music GA for a golden age once CS was in, adopting bureau, caste, pacifism for GS poppage in Constantinople. Then it was off to MC, machinery, construction, engineering, paper, education, lib (to 1 turn left). I built up a bunch of maces/trebs and a few WEs in preparation for the attack on HC. By 1250BC I was ready:





    I quickly took 5 cities from him before he built a bunch of xbows (I built too few WEs, unfortunately), so I took peace for techs (PH, monarchy, theo):


    After stopping lib with 1 turn left, I reseached nationalism and took MilTrad from lib while building the Taj. Then it was just building cuirassiers everywhere to take HC out. Meanwhile I got chemistry (bulb 2xGS) and steel, and upgraded my trebs to cannon. I was a turkey shoot at that point, and HC was the turkey. :lol: I declared in 1535AD, and by 1600AD he was gone (sorry for the lack of SSs. :blush: ).

    The other neighbors had been showing up for a while. You can see my tech path here:


    Here's the relative tech status:


    No too bad. I did some trading with Ram and Monty for the rifling pre-reqs while heading for communism and state property (built the Kremlin in Karakorum). Monty got to rifling around the same time as me, so Ram and Hammy seemed like softer targets. Once rifling was in I headed for AL and flight. By 1855AD I was ready to DoW Rameses:


    More on the way to take Memphis (they all had amphib promo):


    And more waiting on the dock for boats:


    Ram capped after taking Thebes and Memphis, then it was on to Hammy. I took Babylon and 1 other city, and he capped as well, putting me over the dom limit in 1882AD:





     

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