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Monarch Student^ XXI Isabella

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by BigTime, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Welcome to Monarch Student Prime! Have a lot of English homework to do, but still managed to squeeze this out. Our leader today is everybody's favorite zealot, Isabella!



    Izzy as an AI is a ruthless zealot that will either hate you a lot if you're in a different religion, or love you if you are in hers. She consistently founds early religion and spreads it like mad. Her trait set is OK, spiritual and expansive are both average-good traits. A well-rounded leader in my opinion.

    Her UU is the Conquistador:



    A cuirassier replacement that has a 50% boost against melee units and that receives bonuses on defensive terrain (hills, fort, forest). I really like this UU. Pikes are the only reliable counter to cuirassiers and this pretty much eliminates that, as well as giving them an edge in the field due to receiving defensive bonuses. A great unit IMO.

    Her UB is the Citadel:



    A castle replacement that provides siege units with 5 (!!!) extra experience points. I'm a little iffy on this one. On epic and slower, this can be a powerhouse UB as you can get trebs with 3 promos off the bat (citadel, barracks, and a combo of theo/vasslage), which makes medieval war very possible and powerful. On the flipside, medieval war is kind of tough to pull of on normal, and castles are not buildings you often build. It's a pretty good UB if used to its full extent, though.

    The start:



    A rice that won't be irrigated pre-CS, and a grass cow. Food is a bit lacking, but surrounding terrain is good, and another resource should be there. Decent start, not the best but certainly not the worst.

    Fractal map this time

    Huts and Events are OFF, add events in the custom scenario if you wish. (just make sure to cover the top part with your hand so you don't see the AIs :p)

    And a cut-and-paste from Meatbuster's Monarch Student games:

    Save the file and place it in your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then unzip it into your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then use Playing a scenario to play your desired level. Or use custom scenario if you want to remove huts and/or events.

    Recommended Checkpoints:
    *1000BC or 1AD
    *500AD
    *1000AD or Liberalism
    *Victory!

    Please remember to put the journals of your adventures inside spoiler tags.

    For Monarch+ players please try to add archery back to the barbs in WB. If you don't, AIs will capture cities with archers very early in the game, which is no fun. If you prefer easymode barbs, that's fine too, just don't go wondering why an AI captured a barb city in the very early BCs!

    Thanks go to TMIT for making an excellent map creation guide and to mjg5591 for getting this series back on track!

    And finally, the save!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. EMT

    EMT Hated by the Spaniards(?)

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    I count 3, maybe 4 plains hills. From what I can see, that capital is made for production!
     
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yeah, the UB is very marginal simply due to the fact that castles have such a short life - just not well designed. However, and stone is nice, if you get a castle or two out in high prod cities you can pump a bunch of trebs and later upgrade to cannon before Economics.
     
  4. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Oregon
    Monarch/epic to 1700BC (Significant date for reasons that you'll see soon enough)

    Spoiler :
    Sent the warrior on to the plains hill 1SE, found dry corn making it a pretty obvious settle in place.

    Spoiler :


    Gold up north, though the land was pretty barren around it once I scouted that way. Met Ghandi soon enough, tech path was agriculture->animal husbandry->the wheel, found horses close and went the wheel for a chariot rush on Ghandi (Almost too easy, I know :() Worker->Warrior->Settler->Worker->Barracks.

    Improved the corn first, then started the rice while waiting on AH, moved to cows with the rice half farmed, then moved back to the rice. Teched mining/BW next to get some production, mined the open plains hill in the capital (probable resource as it wasn't forested when every other non-resource tile was). Turned out to indeed be copper. Roaded to horses while settling them within the first ring (site shown in my next SS). Built barracks first in the horses/wheat city. Improved horses/wheat and the plains hill there, and both cities started pumping out chariots after their barracks finished.

    DoW'd on Ghandi with 6 chariots, first city was taken on the first turn of the war, capital took 2 turns because of movement time. Captured his worker as well (I may have missed one, my fault for not checking thoroughly). End result? Ghandi eliminated in 1700BC, 3 excellent cities going, with one that will take off after iron working, and plenty of land to peacefully settle.

    Land w/o resources:
    Spoiler :


    Land w/ resources:
    Spoiler :


    Hopefully I didn't go in to too much detail, preventing people from reading it all :) Just trying to lay out the full scenario in case anyone sees any glaring flaws in my strategy. Looking forward to seeing how people settle the gold city, as well as the flood plains. I was thinking perhaps settle on the stone, and then settle the cows/gold with fur in the 3rd ring. Lots of other great cities to settle in the mean time.
     
  5. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    I hope some other people will be playing this, Spain is one of my favorite civs :)

    Monarch/epic to 1AD, ish:

    Spoiler :
    Soon found that I was now alone on this landmass, good and bad news as that meant no trading possibly, but I also saw a few spots where my work boat scouts could cross over to other land areas.

    As it turned out, one of these land masses had all 5 of the remaining AI civs on it, so I got my work boats out and about to circle the mainland. Met JC and Justinian followed by Mao, Roosevelt, and Elizabeth. After slowly teching my way to alphabet, I was able to get back in the tech game with a few trades. Forgot to take pictures mostly but I believe it was aplhabet for IW to JC, and later monarchy to Justy for 100 gold + polytheism (mainly wanted the gold at the time). Also CoL + Monarchy for Calendar and gold from Rosey. I probably got a few more trades out of Justinian (possibly traded him currency, can't recall).

    Currency before all of the other AI really gave me a boost. After alphabet I went for currency via building research and scientists, then built wealth and went for monarch and CoL. Justinian and JC are both prepping for war, hopefully against each other.

    Tech situation:
    Spoiler :


    Land:
    Spoiler :

     
  6. _EGO_

    _EGO_ Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Milano, Italy
    i'll give a shot at this as soon as possible! thanks to bigtime to keeping up this great series... i love MS! :)
     
  7. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
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    Love Izzy! Monarch/normal thru 1280AD:

    Spoiler :

    Settled in place, built worker, warrior x2, settler, barracks, henge, *axes. Tech order was AG> mining> BW> wheel> AH> masonry> pottery> writing. I didn't go AG> AH since with all the trees there would be too many wasted worker turns. When copper popped in the BFC, Gandhi must die! (He founded hinduism and I want the holy city). Met Mao, JC, Justin Roos later via their WBs, so I wasn't isolated. I settled city 2 to claim the FP/stone/gold. Built 'henge because I wanted a GP for that hindu shrine. With 10 axes, I DOWed Gandhi in 950BC:



    By 825BC his 2 cities were mine and the Indian civ was destroyed. Meanwhile, I hooked up the stone and chopped out the mids in Madrid by 650BC, then switched to rep. This greatly helped the tech rate: hunting> alpha> currency> CoL> IW(trade)> sailing> math (trade)> calendar> med+poly+archery (JC trade)> mono(trade)> aesth> lit. I chopped out the GLH in Delhi, along with the GLib. Switched to caste and ran a boatload of scientists in Delhi for the rest of the game. I started filling out the island, which was helped by capturing this barb city that got me a level 4 unit to unlock the HE (Madrid):


    My first GS built an academy in Delhi, the second bulbed Taoism. Next string of techs was music (got the free artist)> drama (bulbed with the free artist)> MC+PH (trade)> CS (in 780AD - then I went brain dead and forgot to switch to bureau until 1250AD :mad: )> machinery> paper> edu(bulb)> construction> monarchy(trade)> engineering (to unlock the UB)> HBR(trade> nat (built Taj with GE)> liberalism> MilTrad(free tech)> PP(bulb)> compass+feud(trade)> gunpowder.

    I settled a couple of cities on the large island to the SW, and am about to take out a barb city there (I'll raze it, since it has no food).


    Tech sitch is pretty good:


    I'm building citadels for 8xp trebs (I didn't get a GG from killing Gandhi, and I stupidly forgot to trade for theo, which would get me 10xp seige. :blush: Oh, well, they'll make decent cannon :) ).


    You can see the wonders that I've built (was building Chicken Pizza for failgold, but forgot to take it off the queue :blush: ) -


    Demographics:


    I'm behind on military, but that will change soon. Madrid is an incredible military pump, turning out conquistadors in 1 turn during the GA. The plan is to tech to rifling and conquer the world (with detours to steel and communism). :)

    EDIT: A shot of the empire:

     
  8. gorf37

    gorf37 Warlord

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    Under your bed...
    Must resist spoilers...

    Almost at turn 100. Got in trouble early with 2 workers idle b/c I teched AG and AH before mining/BW or Wheel... Axe rushed with ease. Hoping to post at lunchtime.
     
  9. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
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    Monarch/normal Conquest 1842AD:

    Spoiler :

    Research was set to chemistry for improved workshops. I ended up manually researching all of chemistry, in spite of having a GS sitting in Delhi. :blush: Stupid oversights like this cost me a lot of turns in this game. In 1600AD I adopted free religion to improve diplomacy before going on my warring spree.

    Meanwhile, I traded for guilds and banking, so after chemistry I went RepParts> rifling> optics(trade)> SciMeth> astro(trade)> communism and built the Kremlin in Madrid. Civics were changed to state property and OR for the kremlin build, as well as general infra buildings (unis, MGB, etc). I had built citadels in 7 cities, and was craking out 8XP trebs while teching to steel. A GM popped in Delhi, and I sent him on a TM to upgrade the trebs to cannon, and some CR3 maces to rifles. I also started a GA with the GSpy from communism to speed along research and builds. Next up was constitution(trade)> democracy> physics> econ(trade)> steam> corp. In 1690 I DOWed Mao, who was in confucianism (Justin and JC were buddhist) and at war with Roos and his vassal Elizabeth. I was 4 turns from AL, but all Mao had were grens/lbows/trebs, while I had a ton of cavalry/conquistadors/cannon.


    After taking Beijing and Guangzhou he capped in 1720AD. I gave him back all of his cities and continued moving over a bunch of infantry, while trading for MilSci andsetting his research to Biology.

    Research was set to RR, and I DOWed Roos/Eliz in 1755AD. I bribed Justinian out of ware with them the turn before so they wouldn't cap to him. After taking Chicago and having a big stack at the gates of Washington, they both capped in 1770AD. Mao finished biology, so I traded for that and set his research to medicine, while Roos was directed to start teching electricity. I headed for combustion. Meanwhile, I moved my stack (with more infantry) to Justinian's borders (next to Los Angeles, which he had captured from Roos) where he had his big stack. I also noticed that he had combustion as well, with 2 sources of oil. I set up an ambhibious invasion to take out one of them. OFC, he got magic infantry just before the DOW in 1800AD. :rolleyes: I used 8 blimps to damage his top units (infantry and anti-tanks, along with artillery), suicided about 8 cannon, and took them out with infantry. He also had a bunch of rifles - 20 or so - which I took out with cavalry. My amphibious force landed at Angora, pillaged the oil and took the city. My main stack healed up and was sent north to Adiranopole. At that point Justinian had enough, and capped to me in 1808AD. Mao finished medicine, so I traded for that, and I traded Justin for artillery. My research was set to flight> fascism (got the free GG).

    Now for the final push against JC! Much earlier I had settled a city on the western tip of his continent, across a narrow strait from my continent, to grab iron/whale. This would give me a great base to launch my invasion from. JC had cambustion and would likely have industrialism before I DOWed, and he only had 1 source of oil on a distant island to my west, so I built a small task force to take it out. 4 fighters based on a nearby city of Mao's would pillage the oil well, and I had a destroyer, carrier, and some infantry ready to take the city. Madrid was set to build artillery once it finished the Pentagon, more infantry were built, along with destroyers, carriers, and fighters. Once fascism was in, I was rush-buying lots of stuff with the slider at 0. JC's SoD was in Neapolis, the city nearest to my overseas base (great luck), so I moved my overseas stack from Justinian's land to my base (I had OB with JC). On the turn of the DOW (1830AD) I used 6 cavalry to pillage all roads adjacent to my city (Santander) and I parked my SoD on of a hill just outside the city:


    JC helpfully obliged by moving his SoD right next to it (infantry/artillery/anti-tank). I hit it with about 20 fighters, around 10 barrage artillery, and wiped it out in 1 turn. After that, it was trivial to capture Neapolis and move on to Rome. When I was at the gates of the city, he threw in the towel:



    Just one big happy family: :lol:




    Final techs:


    Other stats/info:


    Madrid, one of the best prod capitals I've had (I could have plowed a couple more towns into ws/mills, but I could already build tanks in 1 turn:


    Delhi turned out to be a fine GP farm/research center:


    The Spanish empire:

     
  10. gorf37

    gorf37 Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Under your bed...
    Sorry, I suck.
    Spoiler :
    Hrm, Monarch seems like an entirely different game at times. After rushing ghandi, collapse was ugly and lasted what seemed like forever. Grabbed GLH in Dehli, which helped get back in it. Brokered CoL&Currency to get back to parity in terms of techs. Byzantines are scary. Declared on Mao with not enough troops in an effort to rush him off the continent. No real plan, atm.

    Gorf

    Ok better info: (Monarch/Normal)

    AG/AH/Min/BW/Wheel/Pottery/Writing/Masonry/Poly/Mono/Priest/CoL/Currency

    Build went Worker/War/Worker/War/War/Worker/Settler/Barracks/Axe/Axe/Axe/Axe/etc.

    As mentioned, had some wasted worker turns early.
    Built 2nd city late (turn 48).
    Took Ghandi's 2 cities with small losses (turns ~70, 75)
    Should've leveled his 2nd city, but didn't.
    Slider @ 10% or 0% all through Mono, Priest/CoL.
    Finished GLH sometime during CoL, helped get back on track.

    Realized that Mao's cities on my continent were very lightly defended, wanted to avoid cultural defenses, so I DoWed when I didn't have much of an army to speak of. Wasted the few units I had available to smack one city, but had to leave the others. Stayed in war and blockaded him (killed~3 galleys), now that I've got cats going, he's going down.

    So I've gotten a somewhat respectable position, but my power is dangerously low (probably gonna build a pile 'o longbows, maces, cats). I've got a number of city spots ready for development, but don't want to go back down to 10% slider. Need to finish two more courthouses, I believe, to get the forbidden up. I would like to imagine winning lib, but I have a feeling I'm too far behind to pull it off at the moment.

    If my next great person is a prophet, I'll finally get my shrine, and if not, I'll probably go for a golden age.

    Thoughts?

    By the way, does the fact that I'm playing on a Mac make these unopenable by PC players?
     

    Attached Files:

  11. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    Location:
    Oregon
    Monarch/epic 1830ish Domination victory:

    Spoiler :
    Totally slacked on screenshots after my 1AD checkpoint. Joined Justinian in a war against JC in the first century AD, just to get him to friendly. Also DoW'd Mao and took the one city he had on my continent, then got peace with both a bit later. Teched to lib and took military tradition (had already teched nationalism and started Taj Mahal). End result was a well timed golden age to help pump out Conquistadors. Justinian was DoW'd by JC and asked for my help a few turns later. A bit earlier than I had hoped, but I joined in anyway. Used 4 galleons to ship conqs to Antium, and took it as well as Setia (his city right on the western tip) within 2 turns using spies to revolt, I had espionage on him for a while. Took all of JCs southern cities, and he vassaled to Justinian leaving him with an island and 2 tundra cities :mad:

    I had planned on wiping him out entirely. My fault for letting Justinian vassal him though, even when I had done all the heavy lifting :blush:

    I had planned space race or possibly diplo win at that point, but now Justinian had angered me! :lol: Teched to communism and built the Kremlin, then teched artillery/assembly line and massed infantry/artillery. Rosey had gained some land from Mao, and when they got peace I bribed Rosey in to DoW'ing Justinian. Roosevelt lost 3 cities pretty rapidly, and asked to become my vassal.

    This is where I made big mistake #2, I let him become my vassal which auto DoW'd Justinian. :( I wasn't quite ready at this point, but I thought that would just end their war and let me continue preparing, I was wrong. So that's 2 poor vassal related mistakes that cost me quite a few turns on my victory, but I made all haste to get my hands on some of Justinians cities. Steamrolled him anyway, and took 2 of JCs cities, vassalled both after taking about 8 cities, and turned up the culture for a domination victory soon after (forgot screenshots, but it was earlyish 1800s, for a score of about 90000, could have been much better without 2 blunders)

    Best part was using a galleon fleet (research turned off after assembly line) to ship units towards Justinian, when he had destroyers :lol: Lost 1 galleon per turn pretty much the entire war, no big deal! Artillery is absolutely amazing, taking cities is so easy even at an even tech situation with massed arty.
     
  12. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Gorf, in spoilers please! Many have not yet played the game, including myself!
     
  13. gorf37

    gorf37 Warlord

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    Location:
    Under your bed...
    :blush:.............:blush:
     
  14. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    Monarch/Epic placeholder to Lib:

    Spoiler :
    No screenies, but I'll give you a quick rundown of what's happened. Made the obvious play of axe-rushing Gandhi - took 9 axes, which was 6 more than I needed :lol: turns out he hadn't researched AH or BW, but was the founder of Judaism. Yahweh decided not to spare him the onrushing axes though.

    Recovered etc., and the economy's in great shape, but what is up with this tech pace?! I know Justin had a double-gem capital, but still, it's absolutely crazy. I just took Liberalism in 890AD and only beat Justin by 6 turns! And he's building half the wonders.

    I had half a mind to go for the Mids, but they went in like 1000BC to Roosevelt. Saw the earliest GW I think I've ever seen too, at 2600BC.

    Have 13 cities at the moment, and the plan is to go overseas having taken Astronomy from Lib and colonize the island to our NW.

    I'll put some screenies up tomorrow. Fun game! Playing well above Monarch at the moment, I'd say...
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    You can keep using it clean up until artillery, so it isn't *that* marginal.
     
  16. Nothingontv

    Nothingontv Warlord

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    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Spoiler :


    This was a pretty easy map to play. Gandhi was so easy to take out that i almost felt sorry for him, and after that you pretty much get an entire continent for yourself but without being isolated.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    IMM/Normal

    1912 Space

    Spoiler :


    AG ---> AH. Horse seen. Wheel. Death.







    After that, it's a straight shot to space.



    Heavily cottaged. Delhi = GP farm, and I got some priests going too since I had 2 holy cities. Shrined those, covered the continent in spanish culture, and ultimately spammed towns + windmills. Tech rate was well over 2500 by the end. I didn't even bother with internet...just teched it all out since I was in front. When I landed nobody else even had all the space techs (JC had internet, and he + justinian still need fiber optics and fusion).

    If Gandhi is rushed successfully and one manages diplo there's enough land to win quite easily.

    Civics were all the ones at the bottom (hence windmills being good). I'd have liked to found a corporation but liz beat me to mining and I lost creatcon to someone else so screw it. We do have aluminum at least so hammering out parts with levee cottages didn't make me cry at least (cap could bang out engine in 10 turns for example, a couple cities were only slightly worse).



    About the early game (before 1 AD) specifically, to others who've played:

    Spoiler :


    This map really highlights the difference in rush units. Copper is in the BFC, but horse is nearby. Early research path takes us to see the horse first, but BW is a priority tech after that to reveal copper which is likely improved once you get it.

    Of the games so far, 2 went chariots and 3 went axes. So far, the results are leaning heavily in favor of the chariots (I even finished the rush ahead of some of the axe guys despite being +2 difficulty!!!). This is likely a combination of chariot speed (=less opposition) and the fact that earlier AH gives us the capitol's best tile for a long time (cow) and access to working a horse resource in city 2 immediately.

    Nevertheless, this is interesting. A lot of people shun mounted, but chariots seemed to be comparing damned favorably here...certainly nobody could make the case that axes are definitively better here, despite BFC copper!! Maybe chariots are stronger on average after all...

     
  18. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
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    @TMIT
    Spoiler :

    Well, Gandhi is a pretty poor choice for axe vs chariot comparisons - is there an easier AI to rush? :lol: I almost always prefer chariots to axes for the reasons you stated: speed and the value of early AH with cows. I went axe rush because the start was more favorable to getting BW first to cut down on wasted worker turns, and because I don't do many axe rushes these days and I wanted some practice. :p

    Great job on your game, as usual. :goodjob:
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Just FWIW, opening AG ----> AH ----> wheel has a down time of around 3-4 turns on the worker 1st if you build the settler soon enough. It takes a lot of chopping to keep up with 1 cow resource, but forests not chopped now are chopped later...lost cow turns don't come back but are also valuable early.

    Don't forget the commerce on that tile. If you go by 10/6/4 it's a 56 yield tile and nothing you can get in the first 100 turns of cap BFC can match it.

    Anyway if you do a horrible conversion of 1F = 1H, the cow tile already the equivalent of getting a chop every 10 turns compared to working a mine or the rice (more like 7 turns compared to a normal farm then). However, 1f =/= 1h, even before granaries, since it can feed mined hills. So in reality, it is even more valuable than a chop every 10 turns.

    Notice that it doesn't take much under 10 before a worker would have to chop constantly just to keep up with that one tile before math, unable to make further improvements. I didn't run the math, but I have a feeling AH first wins out. 4 idle worker turns is right around 1 chop. Can the cow cover that? I'm pretty sure it can considering how long you'll wait before you have that tile improved if you go BW before it.
     
  20. EMT

    EMT Hated by the Spaniards(?)

    Joined:
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    467
    Spoiler :
    I'm pretty sure failing to rush Gandhi with anything ranks high up along with being invaded overseas by Shaka and getting DOWed by Gandhi as fairly *facepalm* moments :p
     

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