Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
Spoiler A voting tally :
Monarchists' Cookbook I
- Thread starter Diamondeye
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
Can I vote too? 
Bleys save is pretty strong, but as it was said early, any of the saves posted here could easily be used, given the grip that we are having in the game.
Said this, my vote is for Bleys save... good teching, good expansion and a good potential for war.
Having compared all the saves in more detail, my decision came down to vale or Solon.
Solon has the potentially huge advantage that Sal has handed much of his empire to Vicky. The other new leaders, Gandhi and Lincoln, are both easy to deal with as well. He also has a very strong tech position, unsurpassed exploration, and the Hanging Gardens. On the downside he didn't get the Great Library, has only one settled GP, and hasn't managed to get a third city in the east (nor does he have any settlers at this time).
vale, on the other hand, has had no luck with the AI spawning colonies (yet), has no city on the eastern part of marble island (an odd move imo), and is some way behind Solon in tech. However, he has both the Great Library and the Hanging Gardens and, crucially, already has a foothold on the big continent.
It's a very tough call, and I've changed my mind more than once while weighing it up, but if pressed I'd have to choose vale's save for the best ball (and hope for a bout of AI colony fever like in Solon's game).
Edit: btw, in case anyone thinks I favoured these saves because they both have the HG, it was actually a large number of small details that brought me down to these two - the HG wasn't the deciding factor (although the pop bonus presumably contributed to the overall strength of the saves).
Solon has the potentially huge advantage that Sal has handed much of his empire to Vicky. The other new leaders, Gandhi and Lincoln, are both easy to deal with as well. He also has a very strong tech position, unsurpassed exploration, and the Hanging Gardens. On the downside he didn't get the Great Library, has only one settled GP, and hasn't managed to get a third city in the east (nor does he have any settlers at this time).
vale, on the other hand, has had no luck with the AI spawning colonies (yet), has no city on the eastern part of marble island (an odd move imo), and is some way behind Solon in tech. However, he has both the Great Library and the Hanging Gardens and, crucially, already has a foothold on the big continent.
It's a very tough call, and I've changed my mind more than once while weighing it up, but if pressed I'd have to choose vale's save for the best ball (and hope for a bout of AI colony fever like in Solon's game).
Edit: btw, in case anyone thinks I favoured these saves because they both have the HG, it was actually a large number of small details that brought me down to these two - the HG wasn't the deciding factor (although the pop bonus presumably contributed to the overall strength of the saves).
Solon70
Warlord
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- Apr 4, 2008
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It's kind of a mixed blessing to get that third city up before we're closer to doing the Palace/FP thing, IMO, but I agree with your points. This takes me back to a point I made when I got the tin event during the first round - it ends up sort of cheapening the format if the best ball ends up being determined by who got the luckiest random event! It certainly wasn't through my colossal skill that the AI decided to spin off a new colony every other turn.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I think that most of the AI will release a lot of colonies, given the rugged nature of the map. In my game louis liberated all of his cities except the capital to the Americans and I bet that a lot of the AI will procedd that way ( maybe we can find a civ that loves Toku ). That only makes our game easier.....
). That only makes our game easier.....
I think that most of the AI will release a lot of colonies, given the rugged nature of the map. In my game louis liberated all of his cities except the capital to the Americans and I bet that a lot of the AI will procedd that way ( maybe we can find a civ that loves Toku
You're probably right. But it also reinforces Solon's point about luck - it's not just a question of the AI civs releasing colonies, but also of which leaders get spawned to rule them. Given that the colonies could end up more powerful than their masters, the identity of those leaders could be a significant factor.
Edit:
Solon said:
If the city is on the same island as Cologne then I agree. That was one of the details that played in your favour (and vale's). A city on the big continent is another matter, though - no colonial costs eating into the trade profits, a beachhead for the great landgrab, and access to two very handy resources (horses and eles).
r_rolo1
King of myself
There is a order for colony leaders spawn... IIRC Americans are the first for Europeans and I think that Europeans tend to spawn other Europeans ( not sure about that )... but I simply can't recall the rest. Will have to dig a little....
I ran a load of tests back when BtS came out, and it seemed as if any civ was possible, but certain civs were more likely (the Americans especially, but Monty and Ragnar showed up quite often as well). I'm guessing it's random but with some weighting given to certain civs depending on which civ has released the colony.
I'd be interested to see a more reliable/comprehensive explanation, if you can find one.
futurehermit
Deity
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I'm fine with proceeding with Bleys save.
vale
Mathematician
So I've been looking at the numbers, and I don't see (maybe this why my economy is worse than others at the moment but I think the number of cities has more to do with it than that) the rush to get courthouses down in the old world.
First, until we move out of Bureaucracy, I think Berlin is by far our best capital with regards to the bonus. It has the best commerce per turn(TOA trade routes and works 13 commerce per turn on its 6 power tiles and center tiles) and hammers per turn (thanks to settled GP) in the land. The Bureaucracy is just that much bigger there than anywhere else. Later on if we switch to Nationhood or Free Speech in a larger empire, that becomes less of an issue and moving the Palace could be worthwhile.
Second, at least for me, I think State Property is where we are (eventually) headed with our economic civic. Our pitiful production would be boosted enormously by later game workshops. Now that is admittedly pretty far in the future, but on this map, I think it would be worthwhile to prioritize it pretty heavily even at the cost of expiring some of our shiny wonders. So a Forbidden palace (which will not reduce colonial expenses) in the new world, will only be useful in the time period between when it is built and Communism.
Third for me is that in all cases in the old world, a library does just as much to boost the research economy as a courthouse at a significant discount in hammers. And the Libraries are necessary in preparation for what I consider to be a more important national wonder in Oxford.
So my general idea would be courthouses in the new world as a priority, libraries in the old world.
First, until we move out of Bureaucracy, I think Berlin is by far our best capital with regards to the bonus. It has the best commerce per turn(TOA trade routes and works 13 commerce per turn on its 6 power tiles and center tiles) and hammers per turn (thanks to settled GP) in the land. The Bureaucracy is just that much bigger there than anywhere else. Later on if we switch to Nationhood or Free Speech in a larger empire, that becomes less of an issue and moving the Palace could be worthwhile.
Second, at least for me, I think State Property is where we are (eventually) headed with our economic civic. Our pitiful production would be boosted enormously by later game workshops. Now that is admittedly pretty far in the future, but on this map, I think it would be worthwhile to prioritize it pretty heavily even at the cost of expiring some of our shiny wonders. So a Forbidden palace (which will not reduce colonial expenses) in the new world, will only be useful in the time period between when it is built and Communism.
Third for me is that in all cases in the old world, a library does just as much to boost the research economy as a courthouse at a significant discount in hammers. And the Libraries are necessary in preparation for what I consider to be a more important national wonder in Oxford.
So my general idea would be courthouses in the new world as a priority, libraries in the old world.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
Spoiler A voting tally :
On a side note to Vale above, colonial maintenance is capped at twice the normal maintenance, so courthouses, FP and SP all have their effect there aswell, although more subtle.
vale
Mathematician
It will take many more cities on one land mass before the colonial maintenance hits that cap though with or without distance penalties.
So essentially, the Forbidden Palace is cutting distance penalties only, which admittedly is good, but in my opinion is not good enough to sink old world hammers into courthouses before libraries or double production forges or barracks. Especially not if people agree that earlyish State Property is worth pursuing.
So essentially, the Forbidden Palace is cutting distance penalties only, which admittedly is good, but in my opinion is not good enough to sink old world hammers into courthouses before libraries or double production forges or barracks. Especially not if people agree that earlyish State Property is worth pursuing.
futurehermit
Deity
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I see caste system + state property + workshop spam in our future
State Property offers the long-term solution, to be sure. But that's still a very long way off. We're teching fast at the moment, but if we want to claim a big chunk of that land then we'll have to accept a dramatically reduced rate before long.
In your save the break even science rate has already fallen to 50% (and futurehermit's is down to 40%), but your present costs are nothing compared to what REXing the big continent will cause. Selling techs to the AI will help pay some of the costs, but I wouldn't rely on it to keep me in the black.
If the plan is to expand slowly and steadily, then you're probably right that libraries would be the better option (in the old world). But if we decide to REX, the break even rate will move rapidly towards 0%, so getting a headstart on the FP by building a courthouse in one or two of the higher maintenance old world cities isn't such a bad move imo.
r_rolo1
King of myself
futurehermit
Deity
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You want to send around execs on this map Some people have a high threshhold for tedium
Some people have a high threshhold for tedium
r_rolo1
King of myself
Airports 
Even a good ferry + railroad system will do 
Even a good ferry + railroad system will do futurehermit
Deity
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I guess, but my feeling is that the game will be over (at least in principle) long before flight...It's pretty easy to beeline communism at some point and then it is an easy switch to workshops/cs/sp. Why go to all that work for sushi/mining (GE???)/fm when we are closing out the game?
r_rolo1
King of myself
To say the truth, I think that this game will be over far before you need SP ( especially if we go to a all raze policy ) or corps . But if I wanted to go late on this map Sushi is the way to go, with so much sea food ( even the food deprived cities could easily work a big deal of mines, and workshops and watermills )
. But if I wanted to go late on this map Sushi is the way to go, with so much sea food ( even the food deprived cities could easily work a big deal of mines, and workshops and watermills )
