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Mongol scenario tips? (king and above only)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by abone734, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. Mallow

    Mallow Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
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    151
    Location:
    Estonia
    Yep. You just need to have higher score then 2nd best AI. Found out that, when I tried to run out of time.
     
  2. Shinigami84

    Shinigami84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
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    Location:
    Ukraine
    Thats also possible.
    I only know for sure you lose having conquered 7 civs including CSes and you win if you capture 1 more CS/civ. Not sure if that 1 town made any difference in scores, though.
     
  3. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

    Joined:
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    3,603
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    Bear Flag Republic
    BomberEscort, check your Private Messages :D
     
  4. mlund

    mlund Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    188
    Any advice for invading Japan? I rushed Frigates at one point with Tech and still couldn't dislodge much from the main island. Do I have to basically pray for a beachhead and push in Longswords / Muskets with Trebuche / Cannons behind them in an end-game push?

    Also, what's the best way to approach India? The South China -> City States -> Central India path I used once just ate way too much time hacking through jungle and losing turns crossing rivers. Should I try pushing down through that hilly bottleneck south of the Silk Road instead?

    Finally, what's the best order of operations for stomping enemy civs as quickly as possible? My experience with Prince and King has been to take out South China, North China, Persia, and then Arabia - secure China then run the Silk Road. Would it be faster to hit India before Persia if I hit them from the North? It seems like Byzantium and Russia have few cities and weak armies that would fold quickly. Maneuvering around Arabia looks tricky, though.

    I'm suspecting the order of operations could go like this:
    1.) Southern China (gets stronger with time while Jin doesn't)
    2.) Jin
    3.) India
    4.) Persia
    5.) Byzantium
    6.) Russia
    7.) Arabia
    8.) Japan

    Thanks,
    - Marty
     
  5. Mallow

    Mallow Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Estonia
    I had full army with rifles supported by keshiks to attack Japan. They (Riflemen) could really do some damage.

    And I would follow the silk road with main 1st army all the way to Russia and build a third army for India. pref. Rifles.

    Worked for me on Deity.
     
  6. Teagen

    Teagen Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    137
    Actually I had 1 game where Jin started making elephants that basically hard countered the keshiks...that was a pain.
     
  7. mlund

    mlund Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    188
    Yeah, I played on Emperor last knight and everyone had entirely too much gold. Research agreements went out way too fast. Jin and Song Dynasties both could trash-spam units to get spite-kills on my guys, especially Jin's stupid Elephants. I wasted too much time (5 turns) waiting around to pop Professional Army before upgrading to Keshiks too. I went down to India expecting to mop up 3 cities and instead I hit a triangle of death - Lahore, Deli, and one other city each within 3 tiles of each other right at the Himalayan bottleneck. I dealt with trash-ambushes and managed to put all 3 cities down ... only to discover another city - and then another after that. At this point it is like Turn 75 and I've only got 3 Civs down. While Persia should go down in short order I don't see me getting through Byzantium and either Russia or Arabia in time. It takes to long to get into and out of the Indus Valley.

    So I think that puts India right up there on my "places not to visit" list next to Japan. If I'm going to attempt this on Emperor again I'm not going anywhere near India unless I'm doubling back after mud-stomping Persia. The South East Asia jungles are a massive time-sink and the Himalayan Pass off the Silk Road is a death trap as well as a time-sink.

    New approach strategy:
    1 + 2.) Jin / Song - Start with Jin and force early capitulation, then slam Song going West to East across their best luxury cities
    3.) Persia
    4.) Byzantium
    5.) Arabia
    6.) Russia

    In terms of other timing, I think my opening should be to put Workers on the Chop Rush plan to get a Market and Circus online to help avoid deficits in Happiness and Revenue. Tech should rush to Construction for Colosseum. One Horseman goes out to make the rounds for City State pay-outs and potential trading partners once China comes online. Two Horsemen should upgrade immediately so we can bring 3x Keshik + 1x Horsemen over to Ulighar and stomp it flat. From there I can pick up Professional Army and use the Turn 5 policy to open Commerce and get the +25% gold bonus at my capital, allowing me to turn positive cash flow. National Treasury may be on the table at this point too.

    Then it is time to start on a Silk Road, stomping Western Xia, and forcing Jin to capitulate cities - probably hitting Beijing first to seize the Great Wall. As soon as peace breaks out with Jin the Song Dynasty gets kicked over to take their resources. Do the peace-for-cities thing with Song and finish off Jin, then swing back around to finish off Song's capital. Raze the redundant mid-city on the north-most part of Son territory and the East-most Jin city bordering Korea.

    At that point I should have redundant Silks and Spices as well as a single worked source of Gold and Pearls. The spoils of war should be spent on annexing the most productive cities and equipping them with Courthouse and Colosseums, hopefully leading to the Circus Maximus in prompt fashion. I'll probably save an excess Khan for a Golden Age right after these two cities come online. One city needs to be on Circus Maximus duty and the other needs to be spamming Scouts along with my capital to get all these cities garrisoned for the Happiness bonus. Once these tasks are done it is time to spam Horsemen, promote them, and back-fill the campaign to the West.

    Some 8 Keshiks, 2 Horsemen, and 1 or 2 Khans then sweep down the Silk Road right into Almaty and Persia. Hopefully Almaty is allied with Persia so when you DoW Darius (hopefully right after a baited trade) you can pick Almaty off two for some from units and more Horses. Then I suppose it is time to choose whether to plow through Arabia or hit the Northern Steppes and try and tackle Russia and Byzantium from the North. I'm especially tempted to try this since 10 Keshiks, 2 Horsemen, and 2 Khan can make short work of 5 cities - especially if Byzantium and Russia aren't cooperating, or if they've been bribed into war with each other prior to my invasion.

    The real trick here seems to be using cash efficiently to buy happiness. Your productivity and combat readiness gets hit so bad at -10 and lower that you lose precious, precious time. If you have to wait on conquering a particular city for a couple of turns to make sure you don't eat -10 I think you move onto the next target and just leave a token hit-and-run bomber there to keep the city at 0 HP. I kept tripping up by spiking -10 happiness, expecting to buy a Courthouse + Colosseum and realizing I still had 3 turns of resistance in the subject city ...

    - Marty
     
  8. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

    Joined:
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    The Netherlands
    So what to do when you get a 3rd and 4th Khan from the experience? Add them to your troups or golden age? I've got 2 fronts at most, so a 3rd is nice for backup, but I don't see myself needing a fourth.
     
  9. topresch

    topresch Warlord

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    Sep 5, 2009
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    This is not true, at least not anymore. I played the Deity game and took out Wu, Jin, Western Xia, Japan, Korea, Almaty, India, Persia and Abbasides when time ran out. I won the game by a long shot, but did not receive the Deity achievement :confused:

    So much time, but so poorly rewarded. Thus it seems that you HAVE to take out all civs, which really seems impossible..

    edit: Here's a printscreen of the last turn:
     
  10. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

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    Elmendorf, Tx
    I don't have any of the achievements for this one completed because I kept trying to beat it on Deity .
     
  11. topresch

    topresch Warlord

    Joined:
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    Yeah. As you see I tried yesterday, due to the rumors that CS counts towards the eight conquests as long as you win the scenario, but that didn't work at all. So I think I'll scale down to Immortal and leave Japan or Russia be. My invasion of Japan took way too long time. I might also ally with Almaty, to gain some units and have a staging point.

    edit: Also it took me too long time to start on the western powers, and thus I had to spend several turns thinning out their lines with my keshiks. One should soon after or during the Persian conquest have a crack force of 4-5 keshiks, 1 khan and 1 horseman to start an invasion of India, while the others continue westwards.
     
  12. Pyr1t3

    Pyr1t3 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
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    They've patched it, so no cheapskating your way through that one.:lol: On the bright side, you don't have to play the scenario any more than once since clearing it on Deity should get you all the other achievements.

    You should actually have at least two squads of Keshiks by the time you're done with China - one to take out the southern city-states and India, the other to take out Persia. (You'll end up wasting lots of time around Samarkand.) You should try either to rush buy them or build horsemen and upgrade, since you get a discount to upgrading in Honour. As for Japan, build lots of Triremes in Guangzhou or Hangzhou (make sure you get an Armoury first for better mileage), and when the time is right, research Astronomy and upgrade them into Frigates (which is what you should be saving your Iron for), then proceed to bombard their coastal cities.

    I've found the following synergy pretty useful:
    Tech: Economics (Puppet empire and TPs)
    Policy: Right side of Commerce (Reduced costs of rush-buying units and upkeep of roads - the Silk Road is a significant drain on resources)
    Wonder (Set an Engineer in the capital): Big Ben

    I've posted my experience here, but you can try experimenting and see what you'd prefer.

    One thing I didn't add is that if you'd rather keep happiness above 0 / -10 / -20, you'll probably need to raze nearly every city except capitals, city-states, and those with luxury resources, then take Meritocracy and Organised Religion instead of the Commerce tree. The trade-off is probably as follows (correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't actually tried it):

    Pros:
    *No -33% unhappiness combat penalty (-10)
    *Faster production (-10)
    *No rebels (-20)
    *You might actually be able to grow your cities.

    Cons:
    *Less science (overall less population)
    *Fewer policies (Liberty opener + Military Caste = +3 culture per puppet - of which you have less; you still have to annex some coastal cities for your navy)
    *Less gold (less puppets, less money-saving policies, more Courthouses from annexing)

    I suppose you'd still have to destroy City-States to pick up policies, gold and additional units. It's more time-efficient than allying with them, which drains your coffers and still requires you to build the units instead of having them gifted to you immediately. But of course, that means an additional hit to your happiness.
     
  13. topresch

    topresch Warlord

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    Alright, so it's a new patch that is the culprit :)

    Anyway, I went one step down to Immortal, and that was really a piece of cake. Didn't expect such a big difference between Immortal and Deity. I conquered all seven powers (except Japan) in 73 turns really, so would have had time to finish off Japan as well (if not a lot of the other factors that make it difficult was involved of course). The only CS I took was (obviously) Western Xia. But I actually found allying with Almaty a good strategy, due to spawning as well as one less fight and a staging point for easy Persia. But the main reason to success I believe was my speed. No power had cannons or riflemen. Went only for Honor-tree by the way.

    This was the main development:

    1. Jin/Beijing
    2. Western Xia
    3. Wu took Xian, I took the one above Korea.
    4. Ally with Almaty
    5. Finish off Jin
    6. Attack Wu and take Xian (raze)
    7. Get Chengdu and the middle one of hers (raze) in peace treaty
    8. Attack Persia and swiftly take the two easternmost cities, then peace treaty with Nishapur and the one below Georgia as tribute (raze).
    9. Send out two armies: 3 keshik/1 horseman towards Russia, and 5 keshiks/1 horseman through the narrow gap towards India.
    10. Easy and quick conquest of Russia and India (raze two each), in between acquire 3-4 keshiks in Mongolia-China, for planned invasion of last two Chinese cities (capital and the pearl one).
    11. Attack Byzantium from the north via their western city and crush the last Persian city - by this time I don't really need to raze cities, and just get courthouse.
    12. Ally with Abbasid and attack Arabia.
    13. Quickly take Damascus and Aleppo, and follow through with conquering Constantinople.
    14. Easy last couple of turns, just smash and raze Mecca, and lastly take Cairo.

    Done and done! :king:
     

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