Monopolies (reprise)

[Mitch.sp]

Fishing boats
Pearls now +1p/+1c

In case a possible mistake, notify that this was already the previous data (and same as Coral).

Its not the amount of time, its the amount of production it takes, since you need to still build workers

Yes, we're talking of 5X40 production in Standard size, a sizeable inversion in early game.

EDIT
Maybe a solution is equal the gold/hammer ratio to worker when you buy it, being now 8% disfavorable for fishing boat at the start of the game if I remember right.

 

[ElliotS]

Alright, here's my current balance model based on the discussion here. I've made a few changes to balance things out a bit in terms of monopoly variety. I've also taken the liberty of bumping the happiness bump to 6 (from 5):

Yeah Jade and Amber are missing. I'd switch Tea and Silver for balance and lore reasons. Sugar should give 10% food imo. +3 food is weaker than +10% and it could use the buff. Crab also seems real bad imo. Overall I like the changes though.

 

[Gazebo]

Yeah Jade and Amber are missing. I'd switch Tea and Silver for balance and lore reasons. Sugar should give 10% food imo. +3 food is weaker than +10% and it could use the buff. Crab also seems real bad imo. Overall I like the changes though.

Jade is +25% GAL, Amber is +6 Happiness. And Lapis is actually +25% GAL as well, typo on my part. Fixed missing and adjusted some based on immediate feedback:

    Monopolies and Resources
        Monopoly bonus: +10% growth now +10% food
       
        +2 Production:
            Aluminum
            Nutmeg
            Iron
        +3 Food
            Crab
            Truffles
            Pepper
        +2 Culture
            Spices
            Brazilwood      
            Cocoa
        +2 Science
            Citrus
            Oil
            Horse
            Coral
        +3 Gold
            Coal
            Cotton
            Dye
            Perfume
        +2 Faith
            Incense
            Pearls
            Wine
            Tobacco
        +10% Production
            Copper
            Coffee
        +10% Culture
            Marble
            Tea
        +10% Gold
            Silk
            Gems
            Silver
        +10% Food
            Salt
            Sugar
            Olives          
        +10% Science
            Uranium
            Whale      
        +6 Happiness  
            Cloves
            Fur
            Jewelry
            Amber
        +25% GAL
            Gold
            Ivory
            Porcelain
            Jade
            Lapis Lazuli
           
        Fishing boats
            Fish now +1g/+1p
            Pearls now +1p/+1c
            Crab now +1p/+1f
            Whale now +1p/+1s
            Coral now +1fa/+1p
        Plantations
            Olives - Plantation now +1g/+1c (was +2g)
   
        Resources
            Sugar has +1g
            Wine has +1g
            Tea has +2p (was +1)

 

[doublex55]

Maybe tea should get an additional +1 gold or culture, the tile is a bit scarce.

Coral monopoly with lighthouse provides food, production, science, culture, faith, and gold. Is this really ok?

 

[Gazebo]

Maybe tea should get an additional +1 gold or culture, the tile is a bit scarce.

Coral monopoly with lighthouse provides food, production, science, culture, faith, and gold. Is this really ok?

Tea should be at +2p base, forgot to add.

 

[CrazyG]

Zeus seems like a really boring wonder with a free barracks. I guess I can take it to get a barracks without taking military theory, then rush swordsmen, but I really liked the forge on statue. Literally the only problem with the forge was copper, moving copper's bonus to the arena just seemed like a much better solution to me.

 

[ElliotS]

I really like the new list. Thoughts:

1. I still think crab is weak. I guess we'll see in testing.
2. I'm totally ambivalent on the Statue of Zues. I think CrazyG's solution sounds a bit better, but the new statue allows swordsman rushes with greater efficiency.

 

[Gazebo]

Zeus seems like a really boring wonder with a free barracks. I guess I can take it to get a barracks without taking military theory, then rush swordsmen, but I really liked the forge on statue. Literally the only problem with the forge was copper, moving copper's bonus to the arena just seemed like a much better solution to me.

The forge is right on the edge of niche in many situations - nerfing it pushes it closer.

G

 

[Blue Ghost]

And keeping copper on the forge just makes flavor sense.

 

[Owlbebach]

I like the latest list, Crabs indeed seem a bit weak, so does Sugar but thats a gut feeling, i might be wrong. Changing 20% Growth to 10% food is a big deal

 

[tu_79]

Now I'm really looking forward to next release!

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Salt seems too strong with the stone works, mining and +10% food, I'd rather have +10% gold or culture. I'd give +10% food to crabs instead

Gazebo, can you fix so that there won't be maps with only one marble in the game anymore? It's annoying when on turn 35 Greece settles a city and grabs a marble monopoly bonus.

Otherwise I think it looks really good.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Salt seems too strong with the stone works, mining and +10% food, I'd rather have +10% gold or culture. I'd give +10% food to crabs instead

Gazebo, can you fix so that there won't be maps with only one marble in the game anymore? It's annoying when on turn 35 Greece settles a city and grabs a marble monopoly bonus.

Otherwise I think it looks really good.

The one copy thing probably depend on map scripts.
Except if it occur regularly on the standard map script (continent or Pangea) or on Communitas, it is not VP purpose to patch it.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

It happens quite often on Pangea and Oval.

 

[ElliotS]

It happens quite often on Pangea and Oval.

Not for me.

 

[Bromar1]

Jade is +25% GAL, Amber is +6 Happiness. And Lapis is actually +25% GAL as well, typo on my part. Fixed missing and adjusted some based on immediate feedback:

Why have 5 luxuries with GAL monopoly bonus? Every other monopoly bonus only has 3 luxuries associated with it. Also, I feel like most people would agree that GAL is the weakest bonus because it takes so long to see any benefit and even then it's not spectacular

 

[Mad Madigan]

Because luxuries like Jade, Lapis, and Ivory are quick and easy to improve (just need a single technology + Worker), so Civs that start with these luxuries near their capital can usually expand and get the monopoly bonus activated much earlier than for other luxuries. So the decision was made to balance these early/easy to improve resources by giving them useful but weaker monopoly bonuses.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Elliot, perhaps it's confirmation bias on my side, but it happens often enough to be an unnecessary nuisance for me. It's not a CS unique luxury, so the number of its copies should be coded the same as other luxuries in the game. And if it is already coded like that, then I apologize to Gazebo.

Gazebo, would it be too strong if GAL monopoly bonus was buffed? Either percentage wise or changed to +x turns of Golden age or to "number of GA points required reduced by xy%".

 

[CrazyG]

I've had the marble thing happen too

 

[ElliotS]

Gazebo, would it be too strong if GAL monopoly bonus was buffed? Either percentage wise or changed to +x turns of Golden age or to "number of GA points required reduced by xy%".

I've said that if GA monopolies are to become great again, we should just add +2 GA points on the tile in addition to the length modifier. GA costs scale up pretty quickly, so I don't think it's too OP.