Montezuma Immortal NTT

[sampsa]

Original link to the game: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...collection-thread-henrik.672764/post-16497447

BUFFY save with barb techs attached.

 

[sampsa]

T75

Spoiler :

I think the best strategy must be GLH, especially since you see early that there is an island. AH-min-BW-fish-sail-mas-wri(T74). Grew to 4, got enough warriors to bust everything and settled 3E first. It's a weak city of course but I think it's better than going copper first. Horse-city is 1 cheaper on maintenance and can grow faster to work ivory-tile allowing cap to work the lake. I built a work boat from horse immediately when available to scout the island.

T74 GLH done and 5th settled, the game is in the bag. A decent tech pace is now secured and need more workers (have 2) to chop, connect, cottage(?), mine(?). Have marble from Bella for failgold. I think cuirs is the most logical play (as it often is). Colossus would be good but it's in a horrible place in the tree, so no thank you.

 

[Thrasybulos]

I'm not sure the game would be in the bag for me from that position.
But I trust it must be for you.

I'll have to try it that way when I revisit that map: I can see several things I did differently, which this would improve upon.

• My 2nd city was always the Copper city.
• My Horse city was 1N of yours (with the idea of using the Rice as food later on), but that means it couldn't share the Pigs.
• City 4 was 1NW: dictated by the placement of my Horse city. Doesn't change much.
• But I guess another thing I did wrong was overextending: I would always go for city 6 where your scout is standing: locking my land, and pretty decent spot (especially post IW).
• I would also have city 7 between the western pig and spice (but it would get founded post IW).

 

[sampsa]

I agree it feels a bit strange not to go copper first, but that city is stuck size 1 (building a monument?) while the horse-spot can steal pigs for a while to grow and then can at least work two tiles. Plus maintenance and cap working lake as mentioned. I'm not very happy with the GLH-date but I guess you can get away with it.

 

[sampsa]

1AD

Spoiler :

I channeled my inner featherhead and went for construction. I think in general it's a bad plan with GLH and such land shape (very easy to protect your land) and might be worse than normal due to NTT. I have ~20T whip anger in most spots. 14 cats ~10 units mostly in place to declare next turn. Now building HAs that can reach the front line quickly. Planning to spread confu asap for .

Well the reason for this insanity was Genghis WHEOOHRN T83, declare T108 (Keshiks) and has taken two minor cities. My power is 1,3 vs Bella so should be a breeze. She will get a shrine soon so perchance this is not as stupid as it is appears on first glance. GM will be mission to Karakorum (ToA).

Those two barb cities indeed block the trade routes to distant AIs and nobody seems interested in taking them. Would be so much easier with some extra .

 

[Thrasybulos]

Spoiler :

• When I went to war with GK, he also fielded elephants... just more of them than me. Guess I wasn't fast (ie, focussed) enough. That said, you've picked Izzy to die, not him.
• There's usually two possibilities with GK: either he declares on Izzy (as in your game), and he can't be allowed to conquer her (either by confronting him or conquering Izzy yourself, and it has to be dealt with "now"), or he declares on Asoka (which hastens his demise and means Ragnar/Cathy starting to look your way sooner).
• Speaking of Asoka, the western situation seems a bit odd in your game: Asoka is the largest? Justinian is bigger than Cathy?? (iirc, the next level challenge on this map would be playing it as Justinian: his start is just awful).

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

Yes, Izzy is a soft target and much closer so to me 100% the correct first victim. GK is not easy to get to friendly, but I think pleased is enough for a long time (allows begging).

I think the situation in the west is not unfavorable for Player, as long as one AI doesn't conquer all quickly. Asoka+Justinian look strong enough in my game indeed to hold (and maybe they are the real threat there).

I think I'll try to play Justinian later!

 

[sampsa]

500AD

Spoiler :

Declaring killed all the trades and trade routes, so the Montezumian empire fell into stagnation for a couple of centuries. Bella got the shrine as planned! Captured the clam-sugar spot to open trade routes (no -res from GK though), then went towards the core. Calixtlahuaca spreading confu to my core as fast as possible.

She was super weak, I had too many troops so didn't even bombard the shrine city, just smashed some 5 cats and no other losses. As you can see HAs are great even in cat wars. Cat+phant too slow.

While I don't think SA is a great UB at all, here it is very useful. 30 cheaper and relieves the whipping pain. Planning to move palace so extra important to get them up immediately. 1100 moneys from GM-mission which allows me to resume teching.

Eastern empire 500AD. Settled double. Cities are tiny but most of them will start growing rapidly now.

Western empire. GK got Sarmatian before my units were ready, so I just deleted +10 units (all axes, jags, cats) leaving only the units that can be upgraded to cuir/cav. I captured around 10 workers so have 16, which is plenty for 13 cities. Probably will delete some workers too. Will settle to grab stone, at least can fail Moai then.

Getting rid of the barbarian blockers was huge, big immediate boost to trade routes and from sold resources. Haven't gifted a city but it's not too late. The only way this can go wrong if I get declared on by GK.

 

[Thrasybulos]

That is much faster than any of my attempts indeed...

 

[sampsa]

Yeah I think construction war can work, but it wouldn't be my first choice unless presented with a possibility of a tempting dogpile-war.

 

[sampsa]

Justinian T50

Spoiler :

The land is indeed pretty poor, but the doctrine is the same as with Monty. Get coastal cities and build GLH. On T0 for me 2E is clearly the best play, extra and leaves room for the food-city. IMP is awesome.

5th will go to the island unless there is some barb issue.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

T75

Spoiler :

I think the best strategy must be GLH, especially since you see early that there is an island. AH-min-BW-fish-sail-mas-wri(T74). Grew to 4, got enough warriors to bust everything and settled 3E first. It's a weak city of course but I think it's better than going copper first. Horse-city is 1 cheaper on maintenance and can grow faster to work ivory-tile allowing cap to work the lake. I built a work boat from horse immediately when available to scout the island.

View attachment 708484

T74 GLH done and 5th settled, the game is in the bag. A decent tech pace is now secured and need more workers (have 2) to chop, connect, cottage(?), mine(?). Have marble from Bella for failgold. I think cuirs is the most logical play (as it often is). Colossus would be good but it's in a horrible place in the tree, so no thank you.

View attachment 708485

Spoiler :

Not much for me to add here, other than if you pre-chop, you can slice a few turns off of the GLH if so desired.

 

[jorissimo]

Justinian T50

Spoiler :

The land is indeed pretty poor, but the doctrine is the same as with Monty. Get coastal cities and build GLH. On T0 for me 2E is clearly the best play, extra and leaves room for the food-city. IMP is awesome.

5th will go to the island unless there is some barb issue.

View attachment 708783

Spoiler :

Almost 5 cities by T50, really impressive. I'm curious about the build and tech order for this. What size is Constantinople currently? Did you go worker, bunch of warriors and then straight settlers at size 3 or 4? What about the WB?

 

[sampsa]

@jorissimo

Spoiler :

Constantinople has been size 4 since T26 or so, going settler-wb-settler-settler. Units are dancing with animals waiting for them to go poof, and preventing archers from spawning nearby. As you can see 2nd city was actually kind of late, T35.

Worker chopped under 2nd city spot (some and settles 1T faster). I think it's very important to have the boat for 3rd city, otherwise it's a pretty weak spot. 4th is very weak pre border pop, but at least it's connected to 2nd city so finally some trade routes. Then worker mines capital hills and cap goes lighthouse-GLH, 2nd city whips galley. Oh 2nd city whipped wb 2->1.

Coastal cities don't need any workerTurns and IMP+-tiles makes settler production swift.

I also realize now I'm playing it with Monty starting techs (myst+hunt instead of myst+wheel), but I don't think I've gained a lot from that.

 

[jorissimo]

@jorissimo

Spoiler :

Constantinople has been size 4 since T26 or so, going settler-wb-settler-settler. Units are dancing with animals waiting for them to go poof, and preventing archers from spawning nearby. As you can see 2nd city was actually kind of late, T35.

View attachment 708837

Worker chopped under 2nd city spot (some and settles 1T faster). I think it's very important to have the boat for 3rd city, otherwise it's a pretty weak spot. 4th is very weak pre border pop, but at least it's connected to 2nd city so finally some trade routes. Then worker mines capital hills and cap goes lighthouse-GLH, 2nd city whips galley. Oh 2nd city whipped wb 2->1.

Coastal cities don't need any workerTurns and IMP+-tiles makes settler production swift.

View attachment 708838

I also realize now I'm playing it with Monty starting techs (myst+hunt instead of myst+wheel), but I don't think I've gained a lot from that.

Thanks!

Spoiler :

I think it's intriguing that none of your cities are connected on T50. But I guess working coastal resources makes up for the lost commerce.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

2 and 4 are connected to each other and thus have a 1 trade route. It doesn't show because they are not connected to the capital. Yes, working 22 or even 12 can be a good temporary solution.

 

[jorissimo]

Spoiler :

2 and 4 are connected to each other and thus have a 1 trade route. It doesn't show because they are not connected to the capital. Yes, working 22 or even 12 can be a good temporary solution.

Spoiler :

So cities can be connected to another even if they're not connected to the capital? I never knew that

Also another thing I learn from this picture is that if the culture doesn't completely cover the coast, there is no connection. So even with the sliver of western coast not visually covered by culture, there is no connection between C2 and the cap.

 

[sampsa]

@jorissimo

Spoiler :

Yes, means exactly connection to the capital, and in capital that it is connected to at least some other player city. Not having the -symbol does NOT mean you do not have trade routes, hence it can be misleading.

Yes - you need to have every COASTAL tile between cities under culture for them to be connected (doesn't require fishing even, fishing does nothing to trade routes). At sailing every coastal tile and river tile (i.e. even outside culture) connects.

 

[Thrasybulos]

Justinian T50

Spoiler :

The land is indeed pretty poor, but the doctrine is the same as with Monty. Get coastal cities and build GLH. On T0 for me 2E is clearly the best play, extra and leaves room for the food-city. IMP is awesome.

5th will go to the island unless there is some barb issue.

View attachment 708783

Impressive stuff.

Just one question, about your Nicea placement: why not 1N of its current location? It would get more useful tiles without changing its immediate useful tiles...
Is that because you're planning another city 1N1W of the Rice? But isn't settling for the Copper a priority, making that Rice unavailable for that coastal spot?
Or is it simply to get the hill defensive bonus?

 

[sampsa]

There is seafood in the north, so 1N would kill it. I don't think the copper is worth much, just rather chill and settle by the coast.