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Monty and his Eagle-Warriors...

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sascha77, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. trojan13

    trojan13 Chieftain

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    I heard this strategy and I tried it, the result is insane :
    Spoiler :

    played in MP online, T70ish Renaissance

    The description is in korean, but there's the number 93 = 55 + 10 from conquistador's ua + 10 from religion belief + 15 three generals + 4 oligarchy (or war of religion if enemy found a religioin)
     
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  2. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    I wanted to try a Great General strategy with Japan (half price encampments), but I only got one classical era General. After recruiting the first, the second was already medieval, though nobody in the game was in the medieval era to my knowledge. No AI was making any General points at all when I recruited the first. It was a small map, is the amount of Great People limited by map size?
     
  3. Belzek

    Belzek Chieftain

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    Monty is my favorite right now, just did my first sub 200 domination on Emperor with him. He is designed for non-stop domination.

    The resource bonuses are an amazing snowball as you conquer more territory. Early game units are +3-6 str better, midgame you are pushing +10, and late game up to +13-15. This is every single unit in your army. Other civs only get era specific or geographical +5 bonuses on units that disappear with upgrading. Aztecs never lose their bonus (excepting the Eagle warrior). Midgame field cannons are killing machines with +10 on top of promotions. The end game 'slog' is a breeze as you are one-shotting equal level tech with promoted super soldiers and city walls melt like butter.

    Eagle warriors are decent for the first two neighbors (if they are close by), lots of workers gotten and no need for archers. I was able to knock them out with just 4 warriors on my last game (plus a battering ram for the 2nd neighbor with walls). By the time I got to my 3rd neighbor I had enough workers so I upgraded them to swords and continued on. With the extra workers I was able to rush build 3 campuses and started blowing through the tech tree. Being able to rush/buy districts is super nice, especially for crappy little cities in the middle of nowhere (buy a builder, get a district in 5 turns).

    The amenity bonuses also scale well with domination. My first playthrough with them I was at about 50 turns of non-stop war and figured it was probably time to go peaceful for a while due to war weariness, so I check the city reports and to my surprise all of them are at least 'content' with some happy and ecstatic thrown in there too. This is without any entertainment districts. So I kept on killing, weary-free!

    Doing the math:
    2 lux = 3 lux
    4 lux = 6 lux
    6 lux = 9 lux
    8 lux = 12 lux
    and so on....
     
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  4. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

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    I tried the great general stack as Rome and only got one classical great general (Hannibal). I tried it a second time and got two (Boudicca and Sun Tzu). I think there's some randomness involved in how many great generals of each era pop up.
     
  5. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Emperor

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    OK. I should have said better for taking cities. Out in the field, horsemen are super strong but part of what made melee terrible in Civ5 was that you basically took out cities with ranged (not siege) and barely needed one melee/horse for the capture when it was at 0. Ranged do significantly worse against cities now while melee units deal significant damage to fortifications.

    Horses might be just as good. Not sure whether they can benefit from fortifying or not in 6 thought. However unless i have an all horses army, i would rather have them out in the field where they excel rather then besieging a city.
     
  6. Onii-chan

    Onii-chan Prince

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    I'm pretty sure it depends on how fast people are teching. The era of the great people depends on what eras the civs are in (not sure if it's based on the tech leader or the global average though)
     
  7. Hythian

    Hythian Chieftain

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    This is, imho, the saving grace for Eagle Warriors. My Aztec games have me using them into the Ren' Era because they remained viable troops with promotions from fighting neighbors and the bonus from the massive amount of luxury amenities I acquired from conquering other Civs and using the builders I scored from smashing their armies to improve luxury tiles. They don't look that great on paper, but the synergy between the ability and the UU makes them more viable then I expected.

    That said, by the Ren' Era my Crossbowmen did do most of the heavy lifting in my later wars as Ranged > Melee, but Siege Tower'd Eagle Warriors were surprisingly still effective at sacking cities far later into the game then I thought they would be.
     
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  8. Staller

    Staller Chieftain

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    I loved them very much!
    I usually build 2-3 and start a war!
    And i have from enemy Lots of free workers - i have usually on Deity all my territory inside borders covered with farms/mine and accelerated districts!!
    And they are good even vs swordsman!
     
  9. dturtle1

    dturtle1 Prince

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    Eagle Warriors aren't really a rush unit, They are IMO for farming City States and close neighbors for free workers to turbocharge your infrastructure... The extra cost does not translate to increased power but free production. With Luxes fueling them they can farm City states right up to the Renaissance. Ideally you would Farm Military Civs as they are more likely be cranking out the units, occasionally the well can run Dry :mischief:, look it this way at least you dont have to put up with annoying CS spam :lol:
     
  10. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Emperor

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    But they can be used in a rush and will stay useful far longer than Warriors (thought they will, of course loose power as an offensive unit by the time cavalry and then knights show up). An Eagle warrior is by default +8 str compared to a warrior but with only 2 luxuries (which isn't guaranteed, but likely) they reach 30 which is +10 str compared to a warrior.
    Given how the combat formula works, +10 means 50% more damage dealt (or damage *1.5 if you prefer). An eagle warrior is slightly more than 50% more costly than a warrior for 50% more damage and free workers. Not that bad. But damage dealt is only part of the equation, they also receive less damage (2/3 damage or around 20 instead of 30 for equal str combat). An Eagle attacking a Warrior will deal 2.25* the damage he takes and costs about 1.6* the warrior cost. Quite cost efficient!
     
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  11. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Philip II has a unique ability that adds +4 strength versus enemies with a different Religion which is often the case. The Conquistador (Muskerman) gets +10 strength with a Missionary/Apostle in the same tile.

    Other than that, I'm also wondering why Spain would be a good all-in early rusher. It has to be the bonus +4 strength. Conquistadors come far too late for an early rush.
     
  12. Turrdy

    Turrdy Prince

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    I'm pretty sure the chance of capturing an enemy unit and turn it into a worker is different depending on the enemy. I've never got a worker from barbarians but TONS from other major civs. about 3 out of 4 victories resulted in a worker.
     
  13. dturtle1

    dturtle1 Prince

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    @ Turrdy The ability doesnt work on Barbies. It only works on CS and other Civs. It is 50%
     
  14. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    The odds of getting one from a CS are much lower than an actual civ. If it's an actual civ, it seems to be 100% (or at least a number close to 100%). I got declared upon early by Spain and I must have gotten 10+ workers from taking out his suicidal rush of warriors.
     
  15. dturtle1

    dturtle1 Prince

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    I am pretty sure it is 50% regardless.. I have got 4 in a row off a CS, I have got 4 in a Row off a Civ. I have missed out 3 times in a row on a CS , i have missed out 3 times in a row on a Civ. Nothing in my small sample size has indicated that their is any difference between CS and Civ
     
  16. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    The chance of capturing a builder is shown among the combat odds calculations when you hover over a target unit. It's been a while since I tried Monty, but if I recall correctly it was just under 70%. Same for City states and AI.

    Edit: tested, seems it somehow depends on what kind of units you are killing, or strength difference. When I kill warriors, AI or City State, the probablility is 69%. When I kill an AI scout the probability is 94%.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
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  17. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    In my current game, I got at least 10 builders from Eagle Warriors killing AI military units, before my Eagle Warriors finally failed to produce a builder. My targets were mainly AI Warriors, but did include two Heavy Chariots and two Scouts. I guess I was extraordinarily lucky, considering the odds are only 69% for Warrior targets and 94% for Scouts.
     
  18. Promethian

    Promethian Warlord

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    With the patch Monty is indirectly buffed. With industrial overlap gone but district costs the same his ability to burn worker charges on district set up is more valuable.
     
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  19. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

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    eagles are almost 50% stronger than warriors, but the hammer:strength ratio is off. So as is, I take the initial eagle warrior that the game gives you, back him up with archers and horsemen, and try to attack with everyone else first and just let him make the final attack for the possible worker.
     
  20. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Sure, with 2 different Luxuries, Eagle Warriors are strength 30 while Warriors are only strength 20. The 10 strength advantage gives the Eagle Warriors a 1.5x damage inflicted and takes only 0.67x damage from the attacked Warrior.

    I'd willing pay up to 2x hammers for an Eagle Warrior versus normal Warrior. The actual hammer ratio is 1.6x, which makes the Eagle Warrior a bargain, especially starting turn 1.

    You should build at least one Eagle Warrior to take full advantage of playing Montezuma.
     

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