MOO2 Humans - Remembering How to Play

[Harv]

Hi all,

Several months ago I posted a complete (if sloppy) MOO1 Klackon Game and then an incomplete (Jumped from Average to Impossible too fast) Sakkra Game.

Here I have a MOO2 Human game I had the start on my hard drive for about a year but kept it because the home system looked like.....



....almost perfect! We have Radiated Mercury and Toxic Venus, both smaller than Earth. We are missing Mars and the Asteroid Belt, but we have Jupiter. How many times would I have to roll a map to get a G-Class Solar System with Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, and either Jupiter or an Asteroid Belt?

Here is a large map of the Galaxy. We are in the middle of the right hand side of the map.



Here is a close up - There are two systems within a 6 Parsec range.



Meanwhile on Planet Earth, production is at a standstill while all available resources are dedicated to Research.



The Research path is:



1. Electronic Computer
2. Research Labs
3. Reinforced Hull
4. Automated Factories
5. Nuculear Fission
6. Chemistry
7. Physics
8. Cold Fusion
9. Biospheres
10. Soil Enrichment

My plan with production is to switch 2 Population into Production when there is a percentage chance of completing research. Then I will switch them back into Research. When I have 30 Production banked, that is half way towards a Research Lab or an Automated Factory and can buy the rest for 60BC. I might have enough time to put up a base on Mercury.

This plan is just to make sure I do not have something backwards in my thinking or overlook something important. The General tech got inserted between Automated Factories and Biospheres because they will be done very quickly. They are also needed for the Scout Ship and the Freighters.

I prefer Biospheres over Hydroponics because with the Biospheres I can feed everybody from Planet Earth and collect revenue from all the extra population. My back of envelope calculation is for 2BC with Hydroponic Farms, I can turn a Farmer into a Scientist and gain 3 Science. With Biospheres, I can have 2 extra Population. One of these becomes a Farmer, and the other a Scientist. With Democracy, the 2 Population yields 3BC and the Biospheres only cost 1BC.

Soil Enrichment competes with Cloning Centers, but I really think I need all the food Planet Earth can grow. The Humans do not have any Population Modifiers. With 14 Farmers, Planet Earth can support 14 Population on other planets - or 28 Population with Soil Enrichment.

I will also look for the Human game by Nielkaz.

Humans are Charismatic and Democtratic - For standard races I see them as second to the Psilons. Charismatic gives Diplomatic bonuses - but also quicker access to the leaders. Democratic is a bonus to Tax and Science at a cost of domestic espionage. Their challenge is not being a custom race where we could either go Democratic - Lithovore or Unification and leverage production.

So we have to get Production up and running quickly!

Settings are standard - not trying Hard or Impossible yet because it has been a while since I have played. Here is a save attached. It is the third slot.

 

[Sleestak]

Don't give up. Often a bad home system means good systems nearby. And if things are bad all around, get battle scanner and modded mass drivers with AP. A mass driver cruiser and a destroyer with MIRV nukes can rule the early game. You'll hit trouble if the Psilons have traded around heavy armor, and the Meklar won't fall to the cruiser because of auto repair. That's why you need the nuke destroyer as backup. These two ships with the Humans high tech edge can clear out a corner of the galaxy.

 

[Harv]

A long time ago I actually tried to roll a home system that looks something like the Solar System and this is the closest I have rolled in a good while.

Granted a Small Radiated and a Small Toxic do not exactly amount to a huge start.

The game settings are Average - not Impossible.

 

[scratchthepitch]

It has been a while since I played a stock MOO2 game (I play a mod I created of the game that has many differences, instead), so I am a bit rusty on what the stock game parameters are. So take this advice with a grain salt. This is how I would start your game and I'll try to also explain why.

Since you are playing Humans, you will usually only get to pick one item to research. But some of the first techs you get all the items in the box. These are the first 2 categories of Power, the first Chemistry and the first Physics. As Humans, their traits will usually give you good relations with other races, provided these are not repulsive. You should be able to trade for a lot of missed techs. What this means is your tech choices should probably reflect immediate needs, you can trade for the less urgent stuff later.

My basic strategy with a race like Humans would be a peaceful one with trying to build up as large a number of colonies as I can before initial alien contact. Then it depends on the type of alien on how I proceed from there. If friendly, set up trade and research treaties, and non-aggression also. These give a huge boost to paltry early game research and money generation. Repulsive races wont dip, so the usual option is to attack them before they attack you.

You also don't have much research ability, so cheap techs are the best to start on, since they wont take forever to research. Ignore production and work on research until you can build scouts. Then put 1 worker building these. You want to research these early techs fast, so will need most of your surplus to food people on research.

I would start with power, and research nuclear fission. Next the chemistry category, then the 2nd power - cold fusion. This will allow you to start a colony ship. Next I would research construction- advanced engineering, selecting fighter bays, if feeling offensive, reinforced hull if defensive. Then stay with construction and research automated factories. Next it is over to computers for electronic computer, then repeating computers and selecting research labs. I may hold off on the computer category and select biology instead. I prefer hydroponic farms because that extra 2 food helps a lot in the early game, allows a reduction of farmers on the homeworld (important to be able to keep production up - homeworlds can easily become all farm/no production, which is self-strangulating, they are your highest producer in the beginning) and you wont need biospheres till a little later and they are an easy trade. Hydroponic farms also help eliminate starvation if a planet is blockaded during war - a common occurrence. The choice of computers or biology depends upon what sort of planets colonized by then. And mood. Since hydroponic farms needs less research points than research labs, and I can save a homeworld farmer, maybe, I often go the biology route before the computer one. Once I get this basic set of early techs, I greatly reduce research and concentrate on production so I can get as many colonies as possible up and running.

Early on there is not much to build. The other planets in your system are not worth early colonies. None look rich, cant farm and are small, and they will use up valuable workers on food production for a long time before they become productive. I would wait till I had several systems colonized before colonizing them.

Once finishing chemistry research, you should be able to build scouts. Use frigates with extended fuel tanks, that's it. They are very cheap, and fast when confronting monsters - sometimes they can retreat before being destroyed. Once you have a scout, select colony base, again, while waiting for the colony ship tech, then switch to colony ship when you get the tech. Or select colony ship if you got it. You can build this while researching the construction techs, you probably wont finish it before getting to automated factories. Once you get automated factories, switch to this. Then go back to the colony ship, this should shave off a turn or two from the total time it takes to make that first colony ship. Meanwhile your scout can see what is the best of the 2 near systems to colonize first. The number of people on production and research is something I juggle at this time. I use a happy medium between research and production times.

Once I finally get a colony ship built, I build freighters so I will have a way to transport food once the new planet gets colonized. Then it is usually back to building colony ships till first alien contact causes a review of options.

 

[Harv]

I knew I would find different perceptions on the Forum! Here were some discussion points I got from the post above.

1. How do the Humans rank among the 13 Standard Races in Research? I think they are better than average and compete with the best, and really shine later in the game when the bonuses from the buildings stack. They do not have Food or Population bonuses but Technology can fix some of that. However nothing beats Democratic - Lithovore in the early research race.

2. Research Lab, Auto Factory, or Colony Ship First? I favor Research Lab first, then Auto Factory. I am not sure if Auto Factory then Research Lab is better - In either case we have both around Turn 35. We can then use 2 Workers and bank the Production and work on the Colony Ship and have it before Turn 60 if we save money.

3. Colony Ship or Colony Base? I have normally favored putting the Colony Bases up. For 400 Production instead of 500 I colonize Mercury and Venus. I can have Biospheres for 5 Population and Auto Factories and Research Lab. The Population of the Solar System goes to 24. 12 of the are on Earth supporting them. 5 on one planet can run Production and the other 7 can research. It is still a long haul to Soil Enrichment, however.

4. Biospheres or Hydroponic Farms? I have favored the Biospheres based on economic gain per planet. However I have not looked at total number of Planets that can be supported. With Biospheres and Soil Enrichment, Planet Earth can support a total of 28 Population off world. I translate this to approximately 5 Colonies. With Hydroponic Farms and Soil Enrichment, Planet Earth can support a total of 26 Population, or 13 Colonies. The total Population is 64 Population instead of 42. This is based on the assumption that all our exploration yields 13 Medium Barren worlds.

So you are saying that I should focus on expansion until I meet somebody. This means I save the Colony Bases until I am done claiming Systems and I skip the Biospheres in favor of Hydroponic Farms. I will check again if your research path results in the Colony Ship being built sooner.

EDIT: I checked again. If I just use 2 Workers for 46 Turns that is 276 Production, 25 for the Scout Ship, and 251 for the Colony Ship. For 498BC I can buy the other 249 Production. The next builds would be 2 Freighters, Auto Factory, then Research Lab. The way I have listed above has the Colony Ship about 10 Turns later but the Factory and Lab would be up.

There may be a couple of other people out there with opinions.

 

[Harv]

Intrepretations:

The game starts in the "Year 3500" and increments in 0.1. So I will take the liberty to translate each turn to equal one year. This makes the population growth of nearly 1% per year make sense. I can then redefine the Start year to correspond to MOO1's 2300.

One Population will equal 1 Billion People. Do not ask me how we fit 1 Billion People on to a Colony Ship. So I will take that to mean a fleet of Colony Ships and an entire effort to move 1 Billion People.

The Solar System shows Mercury, Venus, and Jupiter. What happened to Mars? History is not very clear on that. We did not roll a Small Barren Planet in the number 4 slot.

Perhaps we can simply say the Antarans made their presence known by blasting Mars out of orbit, then mysteriously disappeared. So it turns out we are not alone in the Galaxy.

So we are here in the Year 2300, Galactic Stardate 3500.1. The Earth's population has reached 8 Billion People and is once again rapidly growing. Top Scientists estimate that current technology will allow the population to grow another 50%. We have to go into the Final Frontier, Space.

We can colonize Mercury and Venus, but this is a massive effort with current resources.
On top of that we would have to develop and build fleets of Freighters. We can also develop Ships to scout the two nearest promising systems.

First we shall develop our Research and Manufacturing Infrastructure. Plans are made to develop the Planet Earth Research Laboratory.

Year 2305: Research plans are completed for the Electronic Computer Systems that will be used in the PERL and onboard ships. Ground is broken for the PERF. [2 Turns of 2 Workers while finishing research gives 12 Production banked.]

Year 2306: Another Alien has made himself known. He calls himself Captain Slith, the Rebel Pilot. He explains that they are aware that Mankind is nearing the Age of Space Exploration. He offers his services to aid our exploration, but the price is simply too high.



Year 2314: Earth's Population reaches 9 Billion.
Year 2315: The Technological Infrastrcture for the PERL is complete. We can finish building it in a few more years.



Commodore Kronis, the Ancient Spacefarer, also offers his services. He also offers knowledge of the entire Galaxy and Technology we cannot dream of. However, once again, the cost is simply too great.



Year 2317: The PERL is nearing completion and work intensifies to complete the project. [60BC Rush Buy]
Year 2318: The PERL is completed.

Year 2321: Research is completed on Hydroponic Farms and production has already started.
Year 2326: The Hydroponic Farms are completed after a year's massive effort.

Year 2327: The PERL develops plans for hull structures for Space Ships, both for Exploration Duty, and for Combat Duty. [Reinforced Hull]

Year 2329: Earth's Population reaches 10 Billion. PERL's efforts intensify. [We are at 41RP.]

Year 2332: Plans are completed for the Planet Earth Automated Factory.

Year 2335: PERL revisits nuculear technology from late 20th Century Earth, and has developed nuculear drive systems for Space Ships and Freighters. Production intensifies on the PEAF.

Year 2336: The PEAF is complete.

Year 2337: PERL has completed basic plans for Ships capable of Interstellar Travel, even including some nuculear weapons to deal with Alien Bad Guys. They eventually agree on a small unarmed manned probe design and find some ambitious if foolish volunteers to man it. Production is intensified. [Bought for 26BC]

Year 2338: Interstellar Probe One is completed and on its way.

Year 2339: PERL has completed research on Laser Weapons suitable for Ships and smaller ones for troops. The Sensor Technology of Interstellar Probe One is developed for Planet Earth to detect Ships similar to what PERL has designed.

Year 2340: Captain V'Larr, the Independent Trader, has also offered his services. His price is very high relative to Earth's Resources, but his wealthy trading network will pay that cost pretty quickly. It would take 14 more years to accumulate the sum of money he is asking for.



Interstellar Probe One has explored the Telum System and found valuable metals in orbit of the planet. Those poor Volunteers are now rich!



The planet, Telum II is approximately Earth-Sized, but rich in resources - certainly richer than Mercury, Venus, Or Earth.



Year 2342: PERL has completed Research on how to reach far away stars with large numbers of people.
Plans are developed for Colony Ships, Outpost Ships, and Transport Ships.

Year 2344: Interstellar Probe One has reached the Echinda System. There is only one planet, nearly devoid of resources, except it does have valuable gem deposits. It is also marginally life bearing.






So here is our situation in the Year 2344.
We have some infrastructure established to start colonizing either Mercury, Venus, Telum, or Echidna.

We are also trying to raise money for Captain V'Larr. Should I go out of my way to get Megawealth? Or can it wait? A 36 Turn Payoff is also a long ways so I have to compare that with other ways to spend money. I also missed on Kronos and Slith.

Which planet to colonize is also a question. Telum is rich, but isolated.
Echidna is very poor, but has Gems - and opens the way to explore three more Systems.

Mercury would also be nice and cheap. We can have an Automated Factory and Research Lab one population building more population.



Here is where I am at with Research.



I like Soil Enrichment because Food is Power. I can support lots of Population from Earth and Echidna. Cloning Centers are also nice, but I can find another way to get population rapidly.

 

[scratchthepitch]

1. How do the Humans rank among the 13 Standard Races in Research?

Democracy gives the Humans a nice boost. I'd say they are near the researcher top, also. The charismatic trait helps establish research treaties, another plus.

2. Research Lab, Auto Factory, or Colony Ship First?

With auto factory, everything else gets built a whole lot faster. The flexibility it brings is hard to beat. In new colonies, the first thing I usually build is auto factories.

3. Colony Ship or Colony Base? I have normally favored putting the Colony Bases up. For 400 Production instead of 500 I colonize Mercury and Venus.

If system planets are rich or can be farmed, I would go with colony base. Otherwise they can slow expansion down. The small planets in your system wont be able to produce much for quite a while, while sucking up valuable home planet workers for their food upkeep.

4. Biospheres or Hydroponic Farms? I have favored the Biospheres based on economic gain per planet. However I have not looked at total number of Planets that can be supported. With Biospheres and Soil Enrichment, Planet Earth can support a total of 28 Population off world. I translate this to approximately 5 Colonies. With Hydroponic Farms and Soil Enrichment, Planet Earth can support a total of 26 Population, or 13 Colonies. The total Population is 64 Population instead of 42. This is based on the assumption that all our exploration yields 13 Medium Barren worlds.

My preference for hydro farms is they offer an immediate saving. It takes a while to build up pop to max limits on the home and colonies, so biospheres wont help any during this early game play. But hydros will because they save 2 food per planet colonized. Usually, the only productive planet you will have in the early part of the game will be your home planet. If this has to put all its production into food for the others, it will take forever to build needed ships, or even home improvements. Farmable planets are usually rare. If you have 6 planets colonized, putting hydros on them saves 12 food. For Humans, that is 6 workers who can be building ships.

So you are saying that I should focus on expansion until I meet somebody. This means I save the Colony Bases until I am done claiming Systems and I skip the Biospheres in favor of Hydroponic Farms. I will check again if your research path results in the Colony Ship being built sooner.

You don't want to get boxed in by other races settling near systems before you can. This could leave you with too small an industrial base to be able to cope with a hostile neighbor. It's happened to me a few times, so I'm leery about being caught too small by a larger, aggressive AI. The AI wont settle your home systems, at least not until late in the game when all the other planets have been settled. They will colonize the systems near you. Early in the game, if you settle a planet in a system, the AI will stay away from it. So 1 planet in the system and then colonize a planet in the next. An exception to this is if there are several rich planets in the system, the AI really, really likes rich planets. In that case, colonize all the rich ones asap, or you will be sharing the system with an AI race.

I play the game by feel, rather than work out mathematical stats like you do, so your ideas may work much better. But keep in mind that it is often necessary to be able to produce ships fast and the AI acts on a player's lack of ability to defend (strength is deterrence).

There may be a couple of other people out there with opinions.

Probably the most experienced player still around this forum is Neilkaz. He plays the game a lot and is well versed in the advantages each race has and what strategies work with each. I left a notice of your game on one of his threads, hopefully he'll see it next time he comes round here.

Edit:

Missing out on Kronos hurts. His galactic lore would have told you what every system had. No need to scout them. His 3 navigation would have given your fleet he was in a nice boost, and immunity to nebula slow downs. I think he also gives dimensional portal, very nice for later tech trades.

You can adjust tax rates by clicking on the upper right square with the money piles (I don't know if you know this). I will sometimes increase taxes if I want to buy something quickly, like a leader or when at war and I want to buy infrastructure on captured planets.

I would colonize Telum first. Being rich, you will be able to use it for production sooner. Getting that planet producing will help out a lot a 100 turns from now. Keep the scout at Echidna and colonize this planet with an outpost ship. Then send off the scout to see the others within range. The planet will not become productive for a long time and you only want it as a stepping stone to the systems beyond. Being ultra poor, its farming potential very low, despite being farmable. It's not worth the cost of a colony ship, save those for the systems beyond.

I would also pick soil enrichment. It's nice to have the increased pop growth from cloning, but you will need farmers to support them. Having to put most of your workers producing food for the fast rising pop can hamstring everything else if you don't have arable planets and the later farming improvement techs.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Plans this evening fell through, so I went and downloaded your begin save and played through till I got the first colony. Here is what I did.

Start: beg res=nuc fis, prod=trade goods, people all on res and food.
03:fin res=nuc fis, beg res=chem.
09:fin res=chem, beg res=cold fus, beg scout.
10:lea. Kimbuzzi arrived-hired. Will help with food.
15:fin res=cold fus, beg res=fig bays, buy scout.
16:scout fin, beg col ship, scout to Telum.
18:disc Telum, scout to Echidna.
22:disc Echidna, scout remains there.
23:fin res=fig bay, beg res=auto fac.
31:lea. Kher arrived-hired.
38:fin res=auto fac, beg res=hyd farm, switch prod to auto fac.
39:fin auto fac, beg col ship again, most people now on prod, lea. Mukirr arrived.
53:GNN-Hyperspace Beast.
55:fin res=hyd farm, beg res=elec comp.
56:buy col ship.
57:col ship fin, beg freighters, col ship to Telum (chancing beast)
59:Telum 3 colonized, beg auto fac there, freighters fin, beg hyd farm on earth.

Since the beast showed up, I cant send out ships, but I can still build them and send them out after the beast disappears. I'm also using up more food than I thought, so I may colonize Echidna with a colony ship instead of an outpost. I probably wont build up enough cash to hire Mukirr since I opted to buy that colony ship.

 

[Harv]

With Interstellar Scout One's immediate mission complete, it is time to return home to the Solar System.

Their journey is complete in the year 2347 and the ship idly orbits Planet Earth awaiting its next mission.
With the Scout Reports complete, plans are diverted to produce an Interstellar Colony Ship.

Meanwhile Director Rash-Iki the Warlord offers his services to discipline and ready Earth for the inevitable upcoming battle.
Plane Earth, however, is not ready for this.



Instead spare resources and funds are gathered and finally there is enough to pay Captain V'Larr, the Independent Trader.
In the Year 2353, he becomes Captain of Interstellar Space Probe One.

In the Year 2358, PERL achieves a huge unexpected breakthrough in Advanced Biology, acquiring applications in Soil Enrichment, Cloning, and Biological Weaponry.



Plans are quickly shifted to improve the agricultural output of Planet Earth and this is accomplished in the next Year.
Labor is shifted to further the efforts of PERL. [41 RP]

Year 2367: Taking some hints from Warlord Rash-Iki, battle is inevitable, Research is complete on Battle Pods to increase the weapon carrying capacity of ship hulls.

Meanwhile, Captain Nile, the Forsaken Warrior offers services. However, all resources are being directed into Colonization.



Year 2370: Planet Earth reaches its full population of 12 Billion.
Amazingly enough, Scientists have proven correct in that the Population has stopped growing.
Pressure mounts for another Colony.

Year 2374: Production intensifies to complete the first Interstellar Colony Ship. [Bought for 394 BC] It is completed in the year 2375.
It sets a course for the Echidna System.

Year 2376: Freighters are required to feed the Colonists and supply more of them. Production is hurried [55 BC] and they are completed in 2377.

Year 2377: Planet Earth's first colony is established on Echidna.



Captain V'Larr steps off Interstellar Space Probe One to direct the effort to bring the abundant valuable gemstones to ready markets on Earth.
The Probe continues on exploring. On Echidna, the long process begins on getting industry up and running.

Freighter production is intensified to support the new Colony. By 2379 the fleet is large enough to move Colonists from Earth to Echidna.

Meanwhile, Interstellar Space Probe One finds a bunch of trouble in the Vega System.



It is a Giant Space Amoeba! Here is what it looks like.



With our present technology, it would take 50 Nuculear Missiles to defeat this thing - something the Scout does not carry.
So it turns around and starts running. [Thanks to Scratchthepitch for pointing out that the Scout Ship can outrun some Space Monsters!]



So the Interstellar Scout ran in circles with this Giant Space Amoeba behind it, dodging Caustic Slime Balls, and explored the entire system,
and headed back to Echidna to report its findings.

One planet is Inhabited by a Pre-Technological Race of Humanoids.



It is also extremely rich in resources.



Year 2383: Plans are developed and an Interstellar Market [Spaceport] is built on Planet Earth to facilitate the Gem Trade from Echidna.

Year 2384: Interstellar Space Probe One finds more Salvage as it explores the Indus System.



There is a large capacity to hold Population if we can feed it.



Meanwhile, Magistrate Mentox, the Legendary Scientist offers to run PERL. It will take a good while to raise the resources to pay him,
but he offers a lot of technology that we can immediately use.



Year 2388: Interstellar Space Probe One arrives at the Phantos System, finding a Worm Hole.



On the other side of the Wormhole is a Sakkra colony. We have contact with our first Alien Empire.
Talk is tough and confrontational at first but all that could be fought over were the Gabbar and Phantos Systems on either side of the Wormhole and soon we are willing to discuss peace and trade.



Here is the Galaxy Map.



Here is a list of Planets that we have explored so far but not colonized.



Here is our Technology situation.



I did not take pictures of the relative comparisions, but the Sakkra have Dimensional Portal and Deuterium Fuel Cells.
They are willing to trade Deuterium Cells for Soil Enrichment.

We have Space Port, Battle Pods, Auto Factories, Research Laboratory, Soil Enrichment, Death Spores, Cloning Center, Reinforced Hull, and Hydroponic Farm.

The graph shows they have a technological advantage ecause of the Dimensional Portal but that gap is very easily closed.

We can get Magistrate Mentox in about 9 more turns if we stop buying buildings. I think his bonuses are enough that I can pretty much stop what I am doing and get his services.

So my thinking is as follows:
1. Sign Trade and Research pacts with the Sakkra. We might as well.
2. Save money and get Mentox in about 9 Turns.
3. Build the Auto Labs.
4. Build the Robo Miner Plants.
5. Research is going to go through the roof. Right now it stands at 29, but will double to 58 when he is hired. It will double again when the Autolabs are built.
This will mean we run through some basic research before going Neural Scanner - Planetary Supercomputer.
6. The next colony is looking to be Vega because by the time the Research - Production spiral is complete we should have some decent technology to take out that Space Amoeba.

 

[neilkaz]

Good to c u playing MOO2, Harv.

Here's some thoughts regarding your start up. You wrote...

"1. Electronic Computer
2. Research Labs
3. Reinforced Hull
4. Automated Factories
5. Nuculear Fission
6. Chemistry
7. Physics
8. Cold Fusion
9. Biospheres
10. Soil Enrichment"

(NK) OK this is usually what I do, except for Physic which you don't need that early, and noting that on Huge, you aren't terribly likely to be attacked nor encounter hostiles as quickly as can happen to me playing Impossible and Cluster.

(NK) As Human you don't need the barracks for moral so I'd sell it on turn 1 for 30 BC and to save 1 BC/turn maintainance. Assuming that you want to make transports on Earth later, it will be easy to rebuild when you have plenty of production and inspite of human's cash bonus from being Demo, the added cash is nice early on.

(NK) I am a big fan of getting Research Labs, then factories asap with races like Humans. The effect of labs is enhanced since Democracy enhances research..so now each scientist generates 6 RP/turn rather than 4.5. The lab adds 5 and even if you put all your guys into production to make CB's and CS's, you're still getting some research. Similarily, the factory will allow you to bank 5 PP/turn while your researching with everyone.

"My plan with production is to switch 2 Population into Production when there is a percentage chance of completing research. Then I will switch them back into Research. When I have 30 Production banked, that is half way towards a Research Lab or an Automated Factory and can buy the rest for 60BC. I might have enough time to put up a base on Mercury."

(NK) Very early on, I usually move 1 guy from research to production once I have a percentage to get it. When I have a decent percentage I may move the 2nd guy over. If I am a huge fav to get the tech, I may move the rest over, although pollution then reduces the production benefit.

(NK) Assuming you aren't soon to be in a war, next I'd get Neural Scanners (you'll need a couple spies and this helps them) and Supercomps. On huge, you'll need some fuel cell tech also or you won't be able to get to enough places.

More later..I'll probably start a Human/Huge/Impos game tonite and post some details..I don't know what to do to post those pretty screen shots and don't want to hijack Harv's thread.

 

[Harv]

There were some early suggestions from Scratchthepitch, so I did change up my initial research plan. From him I learned to rethink Hydroponic Farms over Biospheres. Then I looked up some strategies and inserted them in front of Auto Factories. I was very pleased with the result - By Turn 35 (actually Turn 32) I still had the Automated Factories, but I had also finished Hydroponic Farms.

I also learned from early game advice that maybe my Home System planets were not such a good idea after all - and they can wait until there is nothing better to do.

I agree the Physics is not needed at this point in the game - It is inserted because of how many RP I am generating.

Regarding Barracks - I suppose I could have sold them. I had never really given it that much though. I have also heard of some who sell the Star Base right away.

After getting the Robo-Miners, I was planning to move towards Neural Scanner - Planetary Supercomputer. I was also planning to knock out the 150RP Projects when my research output exceeds 100 because there is a good chance I can do it in two turns. After that I am leaning towards Microbiotics - Terraforming. Then Echidna will be a Large Terran with Gems and Ultra Poor will no longer hurt so much.

Screen Shots: I play MOO2 on Windows 7 through Dosbox. I am not sure what your system is. On Dosbox I can take a Screen Shot by hitting Control F5. The Screen Shot appears in Virtual Store. I had to look around in the hidden files to find it. My pictures are hosted on Imageshack. You can attach one here with the paperclip in the toolbar above (You may have to go Advanced in the reply) and your screenie will show up as a thumbnail.

 

[Harv]

I have a question:

Since I have just found the Sakkra, and my Research is about to explode and I will soon have the Neural Scanner for a total of +20 over the Sakkra, at what point does it become worthwhile to grab their Technology by Espionage?

I will definately build a couple of defensive Agents to protect the upcoming technological advantage.

Would I just do better to focus on expansion instead? (5 Spies equals 1 Colony Ship)

 

[scratchthepitch]

Harv

If you want trade and research treaties with the Sakkra, spying on them will soon get those cancelled. It could also cause them to declare war. You also might be able to trade them for a few of the techs they get that you could use.

 

[Harv]

^^I guess you are right. If Espionage is not successful, then I lose Spies at 100 each trying to get Deuterium Fuel Cells. If successful, then I might have to deal with lost Trade and Research revenue, and that will cost more than the technology I am trying to acquire. I am getting the impression that the payoff is better later in the game.

A war fought clear across the Galaxy would be pretty funny! Um, how long would it take to transport a captured Sakkra Farmer to my Colonies?

Still I should build one spy for defense then focus on expansion. The expansion plan is looking like Telum where a fleet will be prepared to take out the Space Amoeba at Vega. The Tech Blitz is slowing my expansion however, but the infrastructure should be good. (Goals are Robo Miners - Super Computers - Terraforming - Planetary Radiation Shield and the 150 and 250 RP Projects that can be knocked out in a couple of turns.)

Here is my next question: The Sakkra want Spaceport for Deuterium Fuel Cells. I would be able to explore more systems, but it is very unlikely to change the plan I have laid out above. The benefit of Spaceport to the Sakkra is very obvious. Therefore I am not inclined to make this trade.

 

[neilkaz]

I rolled thru my Human Impos game last night with ease to a 273 turn GC win where I'd killed Darlok and Klackon and was nearly done finishing off the cats and had half the galaxy controlled.

Since I didn't encounter any majorly hostile neighbors I was able to use this research path.

1. Electronic Computer
2. Research Labs
3. Reinforced Hull
4. Automated Factories
5. Nuclear Fission
6. Chemistry
7. Cold Fusion
8. Biospheres
9. Soil Enrichment
10.Neural Scanner
11.Supercomputers
12.Battle Pods
13.Spaceport
14.Robo Miners

and then crank through Chemistry to Zort armor when I could make/upgrade ships to MIRVed Merc missiles and ownage followed.

I researched Physics sometime during this period when Supercomps were building. I simply adjust between science and production so that I had about 70-75 research making me a slight underdog to get Physics in 1 turn, and if I didn't get it, then I'd switch over to a 150 RP cost tech like Space Academies. I do a lot of non critical research this way even mid/late game. ..ie once I am a big fav to get it, if it isn't immediately critical, I often switch to a more expensive tech. If it is critical and I am a huge fav or even 100% I take all my scientists and stick them into production.

I made a colony base for Venus (pop 4 desert) after my factory was built. A research treaty and a leader helped supplement the 5 RP my lab was generating. I almost always colonize my home system after the factory is built unless the planet(s) are extremely bad.

I didn't sell the SB on turn 1, feeling that my lower center location would come into quick contact and being Human, cash isn't much of a problem.

Hmm...nothing is worse early on as Human or Sakkra (also very bad defensive spying) than meeting a repulsive Darlok and sure enough he picked me apart almost non matter how many spies I had. At one pt in the midgame he had 9 spies on me and no spying techs to help and I had 17 agents with Neural Scanner and Tele Training and was still losing techs. Once he colonized a junk planet right next to Sol, I had to make him my first victim. Even after adding Stealth Suit, I still lost a tech. Finally noting +31 offensive spying (+6 from leader) I woke up and tried to turn the tables on him as I was gearing up to finish him off. I put several spies into action against him and instantly most of his offensive spies when home to be agents. Once Darlok was gone, my spies stole quite a few techs from the Repulsive Sakkra across the map and structured some of my midgame research based on what techs I expected to steal from them..ie I teched the very useful (on a huge galaxy) Urridium Cells while stealing the same level N-armor from them.

I'll replay my start soon and post more details .. neilkaz ..

 

[neilkaz]

Harv,

re: leaders in your game. I'd want to raise taxes for a few turns to hire Mentox since early AutoLabs will give you overpowering tech once you expand to a few colonies. re: ship leaders, of course if you don't have an immediate need for their skills, you can reject them and then hire them after nearly 30 turns before they go away to save money and to hope a better one comes along in the mean time.

Make sure to then make a few defensive spies. Even if the Lizards and their very poor spies don't spy on you, races that you meet will. Playing Impossible I often have at least one enemy spy on me the turn after I meet a new race. If I have decent relations and especially as human I can often sucessfully demand that they stop spying which keeps their spies away for quite a while.

Rash-iki is a decent early leader due to the production bonus. You can switch back and forth between him and Mentox at Sol without delay depending on whether ur teching or building but eventually you'll want Mentox in a research oriented and hopefully big system.

Vega looks like a great place and with one terreform that UR ocean planet will be Terran and capable of holding many more workers and a great shipyard while those natives also add to food totals.

Playing Impossible, I'd not be able to trade Spaceport for Deut Cells as the AI would likely want a higher level tech anyhow. But I don't see the need for you to do so. You can research Deut cells yourself as you'll need either it or Trit armor to advance thru the Chem techs. Trit armor is nice, but once you get Zort armor it is useless and I think you can avoid a war before then. With your coming research superiority, techs aren't going to be a problem.

I'd concentrate on local colonization and make treaties with the Lizards rather than spying on them inspite of them likely to be rather defenseless to your spies if you get a couple of spy techs and inspite of them being very unlikely to come down that worm hole to attack you. However, if down a worm hole and they were repulsive (as is common in Impossible) I'd be trying to steal their techs.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[scratchthepitch]

Harv

Nielkaz covered most of it, but I can add a couple things.

Still I should build one spy for defense then focus on expansion. The expansion plan is looking like Telum where a fleet will be prepared to take out the Space Amoeba at Vega. The Tech Blitz is slowing my expansion however, but the infrastructure should be good. (Goals are Robo Miners - Super Computers - Terraforming - Planetary Radiation Shield and the 150 and 250 RP Projects that can be knocked out in a couple of turns.)

Once meeting an AI I will usually build 3 spies, because the 1st or 2nd spy built inevitably gets killed. I think it's a hardwired thing. Spying in this game is "crooked", it's one of the things there is an AI cheat. So your advantages help, but they are sometimes overridden when the game decides it. Losing your 1st or 2nd spy almost as soon as they get completed seems to be one of those cheats.

Here is my next question: The Sakkra want Spaceport for Deuterium Fuel Cells. I would be able to explore more systems, but it is very unlikely to change the plan I have laid out above. The benefit of Spaceport to the Sakkra is very obvious. Therefore I am not inclined to make this trade.

Here I differ with Neilkaz. It depends if you have reached a point where further planets are out of range. I think I would probably go for the trade simply to get the deutrium fuel cells. Even if your ships equipped with long range tanks can reach a system, your transports may not, since these only get regular ranges. Being stuck with the beginning range could mean you cant invade the AI till you get the later fuel cells. That may or may not cause problems, depending on if you have an early war with somebody just out of range, before you reach the later cells. I usually go for these trades if they are not too unbalanced, and if they are not a defensive or offensive tech that could bite if I went to war with them. Spaceport will help the Sakkra, but it wont make their ships or troops any tougher. Trading spaceport to the Sakkra could also help you because if the Sakkra have more money, the trade treaty you have with them will pay off more to you. It will also make them more friendly, possibly helping later tech trade deals, and giving you that little extra when the game decides to pin you with a spy frame. If their attitude is high enough, they might not cancel the treaties or go to war, but just give you a warning, instead. So to me, the positive outweighs the negative in that deal.

 

[neilkaz]

Harv

Here I differ with Neilkaz. It depends if you have reached a point where further planets are out of range. I think I would probably go for the trade simply to get the deutrium fuel cells. Even if your ships equipped with long range tanks can reach a system, your transports may not, since these only get regular ranges. Being stuck with the beginning range could mean you cant invade the AI till you get the later fuel cells. That may or may not cause problems, depending on if you have an early war with somebody just out of range, before you reach the later cells. I usually go for these trades if they are not too unbalanced, and if they are not a defensive or offensive tech that could bite if I went to war with them. Spaceport will help the Sakkra, but it wont make their ships or troops any tougher. Trading spaceport to the Sakkra could also help you because if the Sakkra have more money, the trade treaty you have with them will pay off more to you. It will also make them more friendly, possibly helping later tech trade deals, and giving you that little extra when the game decides to pin you with a spy frame. If their attitude is high enough, they might not cancel the treaties or go to war, but just give you a warning, instead. So to me, the positive outweighs the negative in that deal.

Its all situational since Deut cells is an easy 250 research and you have to research either Deut or Trit armor anyhow. Often I'd want to trade for one or the other so I can have both but here it looks like Harv will have so much research that Trit will be surpass with Zort armor before he's in any major conflict. If you wait, you may meet a new civ to trade the same tech to for Trit armor, thereby saving 250 RP as that field is complete. I'm careful to avoid helping the Sakkra since they often do very well as an AI with wild expansion. Once you get Deut Cells you may quickly meet a new AI or two and that can be good as human, but be prepared for spies.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[neilkaz]

I'll detail my start in a new Human game (Impos/8/Huge/Prewarp)

Sol is just to the left of center and my system has Toxic Venus pop 5, awful UP,LG, Radiated Mercury pop 4, and a Jupiter to be made habitable much later. I saved the game at the start to enable me to go back and try various paths.

0.0.. I sell the barracks and put all 4 free guys into researching electronic comp and once I had it 44% done after two turns I got it with 6 production banked and put my worker back on teching Labs.

1.0.. I now have 8 turns needed to get Labs so I stick a scientist back into production. This slows my research rate slightly but almost certainly I'll have the tech by the time 8 turns have passed. 8 x 3=24 + the 6 saved production is 30 which will enable me to buy the lab when exactly half done.

1.6.. I get lucky and tech Labs early and need 6 more production so I spend one turn with two workers while starting to tech Rein. Hull and then buy the lab and tech with all 4 guys. My tech just jumped from 18 RP/t to 29 RP/t. For anyone learning this game, this is why you beeline for Research Labs.

1.8.. Lydon shows up and I hire him instantly. Megawealth's +10 BC/t rocks early on and being famous he'll attract other leader and reduce their costs. I soon refuse a couple of nearly worthless ship leaders.

2.0.. I have a small chance to get Hull so I move a guy to production (colony base but will switch it to factory when I get that tech) and then next turn and the following have two guys on production (bad luck getting the tech) and finally get the tech with 15 PP saved.

3.. I now have 5 turns remaining to get Factory tech and needing 15PP I move a guy to production and luck out and get the tech then needing 12 PP. Gizmo shows up and he is free to hire (thx Lydon) and for a measly 1 BC/t I get 5 free research. I now start on Nuclear Fission and then Chem so I can send out scout.

3.2.. I buy the factory for 60 BC and now put all 5 workers (my pop has grown to 10) on building a colony base for Venus. I am generating 25PP/t but losing 7 to pollution so with the resultant 18 PP/t it will take me six more turns to buy the base half built.

3.8.. I buy the base for Venus and now am in a quandry about whether to colonize Mercury since it is such a lousy worthless space rock. If it were pop 1, I'd not dream of colonizing, but here in year 3.9 I saved the game so I can see how various paths go.

I think I'll forget about Mercury until later and build a freighter fleet and move a guy to farming so that I can feed Venus and place another worker there to make a factory and lab. I'll soon get a scout out and see if any of the three systems it can reach are good.

 

[Harv]

For a good while I struggled with the Biospheres / Hydroponic Farms Debate. However I did like the results when I changed my research path to Electronic Computer - Research Labs - Hydroponic Farms - Reinforced Hull - Automated Factory. The extra Scientist that results at this stage of the game makes a difference and the Automated Factory is completed in the same time and we are already one stage closer to Soil Enrichment. The jump to a 400RP Project seemed much quicker.

The benefit from Biospheres seems to be longer term.

One thing I really like about this game is how it can be played out pretty quickly. I have played up to Turn 158. I should be able to post an update.