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MoO2 style governments

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MOO2Civ' started by Minor Annoyance, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

    Jun 27, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario
    Since I should be getting around to making these soon I should post ideas so people can make comments and suggestions while I'm writing in the assimilation code.
    Here's the basic idea. Races that had a government in MoO2 start with it available but still have others researchable. There will be humans starting with democracy, but laters Psilons and Gnolam etc. may switch to it too, and humans would eventually have federation available, or maybe they'll switch to unification. There may also be other advantages to going with your intended government like not paying upkeep for it or having no anarchy when changing back to it, but I'll get a more basic set up with just having your intended government early be the only advantage and see how they can work together and balance out before a lot of other factors are introduced.
    These would replace all the current government civics and most of the new ones would have aspects of the ones being replaced, except monarchy (i.e. bureaucracy). This civic is an important balancing factor that keeps smaller empires competitive so I wouldn't want to delete it totally. I propose moving it to economy and renaming it 'Centralised Economy' to preserve the effect.

    The governments that were better in MoO2 should still be better now, but not without reason to change between them if situations change. Tough to balance, which is why I'd want to get it started soon so while I do other things people can play around with them and get feedback to rebalance them.
    Firstly the upkeep cost of them would be similar to the pick cost in MoO2.
    Feudal - low
    Dictatorship - medium
    Unification - high
    Democracy - high

    Also the better ones would be higher in the tech tree. Looking at the old MoO2 techs, here's where I'd place them:

    Feudal - Military Tactics
    Obvious reasons

    Dictatorship - Xeno Relations + Artificial Intelegence
    Xeno for the controlling alien populations aspect and AI for surveillance methods

    Unification - Macro Economics + Genetic Engineering
    ME mostly because one part should be a sociology tech and it somewhat makes sense and GE I guess to breed out greed and self interest

    Democracy - Teaching Methods + Cybertronics
    TM mostly because it's sociology and Cybertronics I guess for advanced communication technology or really good voting computers. Weak reasoning, but it's what I have. Galactic Networking might make more sense, but that might be too far up the tech tree.

    With the new tech tree I don't know how exactly I'd hook the new government techs up like this so someone will have to pick what specifically to connect them too.

    There's a government effect on MoO2 that doesn't directly translate. It's the moral penalty from losing your capital, which can't happen in civ4. So there are a few options.
    -ignore it
    -have it affect city maintenance
    No maintenance from distance is already covered by planned economy but there is the per-city maintenance cost, which could be reduced for less capital dependent governments. Or the distance maintenance would be for governments and give the reduced per-city maintenance to the other civic.

    Now on to specific effects of governments

    - :) from ground units or barracks
    This could be done by having added :) from military buildings like the nationhood civic, of which you could have several of with multiple planets. Or use the hereditary effect of :) from units but that might be too good an effect for the lowest level government. Might be better saved for an advanced government.
    - Cities instantly assimilate to enemy when lost
    This could probably be done, although it apparently didn't actually work in MoO2. Might be hard to get the AI to understand how much of a disadvantage that could be since it's most of a bonus for the enemy so it doesn't necessarily effect you. But there might be 'defending' AI war plans so the AI could be discouraged from using this civic in those situation.
    - Ship :hammers: +50%
    - :science:-15%
    A 50% reduction would be pretty crippling, going by how the -10% :science: from the barbarian trait in FfH2 is considered pretty significant and being able to change governments no one would ever use something with a 50% :science: penalty.

    - :espionage: +10%
    - :)from barracks or ground units
    Would be the same as feudal
    - per city maintenance -30%, if we go with that at all
    - free units?
    Imperium has more free units which but not the basic version. If basic dictatorship ends up not being good enough adding some free units to it could fix that, but since it's the default government it should probably be the most simple, features wise.

    - :espionage: +15%
    - :food:and :hammers:increased by 50%
    - City revolt turns x2.5
    - no per city maintenance, if we go with that
    I don't know what to do with the no moral thing, since it could be good and bad in MoO2 so it was it's own trade off but it would just just positive in civ so I'd just ignore it.

    - :espionage: -10%
    - :science: and :gold:+15%
    Not 50% increase for the same reason feudal isn't -50% :science:
    - City revolt turns reduced by half
    - Per city maintenance reduced by 60%, again, if.
    There's also the part where democracies can't eliminate populations or in civ terms raze a city, but I don't think that would have a large impact on the game, so it would be a low priority to program.

    Well it took me all day to write that. What be all your thoughts?
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Oct 28, 2006
    In orbit
    I think it sounds reasonable, overall. Details can be corrected as we go along, but for starters I like your ideas. The important thing (also mentioned on another thread) is where to fit in the changed govt civics in the tech tree, so it'd be nice to hear from our tech tree revisionists. ;)

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