More "Dead-end" Tech for Civilation Specialization

Khan Quest

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I would like to have more “dead-end”, specializing techs available. These techs would allow a player to further specialize aspects his game. There should be enough of these available where it would impossible to get them all in the course of a game, and chasing too many may set you back tech-wise.
These techs would be more “applied” as opposed to “theoretical” and therefore can not be traded.

The military specializing techs will have limited usefulness time span, like all military techs. The military techs represent both the absolutely most advanced equipment available and the training to maximize its affect.
Some existing techs, especially civic techs, should not be tradable. Case in point, the U.S. has “gifted” Democracy to religious Iraq. And it has been what, 5 years of anarchy with no sign of democracy taking hold?

Alternatively, each tech could have a graded transferability rating, say 0 to 5. 0 represents more of the applied technology (100% would have to be researched) like most of those below. 1 is 25% (25% transferable; 75% would have to be researched), 2 is 50%, 3 is 75%, and 5 is 100% - pure scientific research, and immediately implimentable.

Tech: Composite Bow Making
Prereq: Archery
Applies to: All archery units (bowman, long-bowman, camel archers, etc.)
Effect: All new archery units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new archery units have 10% increased strength (as opposed to a combat promotion). A bowman, for example, would start out at 3.3 rather than 3.

Tech: Layered Steel
Prereq: Iron Working
Applies to: All sword-wielding units (Swordsmen, knights, samurai, etc.)
Effect: All new sword-wielding units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new sword-wielding units have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Tournament
Prereq: Guilds
Applies to: All horse-mounted units
Effect: All new horse-mounted units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new sword-wielding units have 10% increased strength.

Perhaps only one 10% bonus could apply to any given type of unit.

Tech: Polearms ?
Prereq: Civil Service
Applies to: All Pikemen
Effect: All new Pikemen cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new Pikemen have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Sharp-shooting
Prereq: Rifling
Applies to: All gun-powder units
Effect: All new gun-powder units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new gun-powder units have 10% increased strength.

Tech: War gaming
Prereq: Industrialism
Applies to: All warships
Effect: All new warships cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new warships have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Battle-simulators
Prereq: Computers
Applies to: All mechanized units (mech infantry, tanks, helicopters)
Effect: All new mechanized units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new mechanized units have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Focused Marketing
Prereq: Corporations
Applies to: Traded resources
Effect: All foreign-traded resources grant a 2 gold/turn to the city with the resource and trade route.

Tech: Propaganda
Prereq: Mass Media
Applies to: Civs
Effect: For a to-be-specified amount of gold per turn, dependent upon the target civs population, relations may improved or degraded by one point with respect to another civ.

Tech: Extreme Environmental Technologies
Prereq: Ecology
Applies to: See below.
Effect: A new type worker , Extreme Environmental Engineer (eee) can be created/upgraded-to that can enter mountain tiles. Mountain tiles may be improved with special roads and mined by an eee. The mined mountain produces 2 hammers. Desert tiles may have a new improvement, solar plant, to produce to hammers.
A new promotion becomes available (prereq: hill I), allowing the promoted military units to travel upon mountain and ice tiles. The move rate is one, even if the tile has a road.

Tech: Renaissance
Prereq: ?
Applies to: Cities with culture older than 100 turns.
Effect: A new building, museum, may be built, which will amplify culture produced by buildings and wonders no less 100 turns old by 25% (these are not ordinary museums, but those on the order of the Smithsonian or the Louvre).

Tech: Oceanic Exploration
Prereq: Sailing
Applies to: All non-oceanic vessels
Effect: Creates a new promotion available for non-oceanic vessels to have a percentage chance of surviving in an ocean tile (like in the older civ).

Tech: Weights and measures
Prereq: Currency
Applies to: Markets
Effect: Markets can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect.

Tech: Lobbying
Prereq: Democracy
Applies to: Cities
Effect: Can turn one happy citizen into +1 hammer and +2 commerce.

Tech: Intrigue
Prereq: Hereditary Rule
Applies to: See Below
Effect: Capital cities of non-religious civ recover from anarchy 100% faster. Religious civs may change civics every eight turns.

Tech: Micromanagement
Prereq: Corporation
Applies to: Factories/Cities
Effect: Factories can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect. Causes -1 happiness.

Tech: Psychology
Prereq: Biology
Applies to: Missionaries
Effect: Missionaries are 50% more likely to spread their religion to a city. Missionaries can “covert” one religion in a city to their own (in effect, removing it from the city). The missionary’s religion must be in the city.

Tech: Penal Code
Prereq: ?
Applies to: Jails
Effect: Jails can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect.

Tech: Ethics
Prereq: Constitution
Applies to: Courthouses
Effect: Courthouses can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect.

Tech: Expedition
Prereq: ? some early tech
Applies to: Units
Effect: Units in nuetral territory heal as fast as those within cultural boundries.
 
Hmmm, not bad, although I think propoganda could be used as a counter to cultural influance and superiority.
 
I would like to have more “dead-end”, specializing techs available. These techs would allow a player to further specialize aspects his game. There should be enough of these available where it would impossible to get them all in the course of a game, and chasing too many may set you back tech-wise.
These techs would be more “applied” as opposed to “theoretical” and therefore can not be traded.

The military specializing techs will have limited usefulness time span, like all military techs. The military techs represent both the absolutely most advanced equipment available and the training to maximize its affect.
Some existing techs, especially civic techs, should not be tradable. Case in point, the U.S. has “gifted” Democracy to religious Iraq. And it has been what, 5 years of anarchy with no sign of democracy taking hold?

Alternatively, each tech could have a graded transferability rating, say 0 to 5. 0 represents more of the applied technology (100% would have to be researched) like most of those below. 1 is 25% (25% transferable; 75% would have to be researched), 2 is 50%, 3 is 75%, and 5 is 100% - pure scientific research, and immediately implimentable.

Tech: Composite Bow Making
Prereq: Archery
Applies to: All archery units (bowman, long-bowman, camel archers, etc.)
Effect: All new archery units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new archery units have 10% increased strength (as opposed to a combat promotion). A bowman, for example, would start out at 3.3 rather than 3.

Tech: Layered Steel
Prereq: Iron Working
Applies to: All sword-wielding units (Swordsmen, knights, samurai, etc.)
Effect: All new sword-wielding units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new sword-wielding units have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Tournament
Prereq: Guilds
Applies to: All horse-mounted units
Effect: All new horse-mounted units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new sword-wielding units have 10% increased strength.

Perhaps only one 10% bonus could apply to any given type of unit.

Tech: Polearms ?
Prereq: Civil Service
Applies to: All Pikemen
Effect: All new Pikemen cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new Pikemen have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Sharp-shooting
Prereq: Rifling
Applies to: All gun-powder units
Effect: All new gun-powder units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new gun-powder units have 10% increased strength.

Tech: War gaming
Prereq: Industrialism
Applies to: All warships
Effect: All new warships cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new warships have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Battle-simulators
Prereq: Computers
Applies to: All mechanized units (mech infantry, tanks, helicopters)
Effect: All new mechanized units cost 10% more hammers to produce. All new mechanized units have 10% increased strength.

Tech: Focused Marketing
Prereq: Corporations
Applies to: Traded resources
Effect: All foreign-traded resources grant a 2 gold/turn to the city with the resource and trade route.

Tech: Propaganda
Prereq: Mass Media
Applies to: Civs
Effect: For a to-be-specified amount of gold per turn, dependent upon the target civs population, relations may improved or degraded by one point with respect to another civ.

Tech: Extreme Environmental Technologies
Prereq: Ecology
Applies to: See below.
Effect: A new type worker , Extreme Environmental Engineer (eee) can be created/upgraded-to that can enter mountain tiles. Mountain tiles may be improved with special roads and mined by an eee. The mined mountain produces 2 hammers. Desert tiles may have a new improvement, solar plant, to produce to hammers.
A new promotion becomes available (prereq: hill I), allowing the promoted military units to travel upon mountain and ice tiles. The move rate is one, even if the tile has a road.

Tech: Renaissance
Prereq: ?
Applies to: Cities with culture older than 100 turns.
Effect: A new building, museum, may be built, which will amplify culture produced by buildings and wonders no less 100 turns old by 25% (these are not ordinary museums, but those on the order of the Smithsonian or the Louvre).

Tech: Oceanic Exploration
Prereq: Sailing
Applies to: All non-oceanic vessels
Effect: Creates a new promotion available for non-oceanic vessels to have a percentage chance of surviving in an ocean tile (like in the older civ).

Tech: Weights and measures
Prereq: Currency
Applies to: Markets
Effect: Markets can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect.

Tech: Lobbying
Prereq: Democracy
Applies to: Cities
Effect: Can turn one happy citizen into +1 hammer and +2 commerce.

Tech: Intrigue
Prereq: Hereditary Rule
Applies to: See Below
Effect: Capital cities of non-religious civ recover from anarchy 100% faster. Religious civs may change civics every eight turns.

Tech: Micromanagement
Prereq: Corporation
Applies to: Factories/Cities
Effect: Factories can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect. Causes -1 happiness.

Tech: Psychology
Prereq: Biology
Applies to: Missionaries
Effect: Missionaries are 50% more likely to spread their religion to a city. Missionaries can “covert” one religion in a city to their own (in effect, removing it from the city). The missionary’s religion must be in the city.

Tech: Penal Code
Prereq: ?
Applies to: Jails
Effect: Jails can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect.

Tech: Ethics
Prereq: Constitution
Applies to: Courthouses
Effect: Courthouses can be upgraded at a 10% cost for a 10% increased affect.

Tech: Expedition
Prereq: ? some early tech
Applies to: Units
Effect: Units in nuetral territory heal as fast as those within cultural boundries.


Have you ever played the RAR or DYP that were done for Civ III? I don't know if the creators made a version for Civ 4 or not.

Each period of time has a number of dead-end techs, which created a number of different decision makings- go for progress or go for a military weapon.
 
Was it neccesary to quote the whole post?

Anyway, eventhough there was some options and alternatives in CIV III it isn't here, I have long wanted the possibility to become a huge military power, not neccesary in numbers but in strenght and that is hard to make possible in CIV III. You might get some advances over the other civs by creating a great general in a city or perhaps 3 in one city. Add to that Pentagon and you can become quite powerfull, but I just don't think it reflect the real world where some civs that is extremely good on science can become so much more powerfull than others.

These deadend techs, will you only be able to pick one for each era? And wouldn't all civs discover all?
 
I like the idea, although most of the techs looks like the same effect applied to another unit. I think these specializations, if implemented to cIV, should be 1spec/era, have a very long research time and far greater impact than the 10% bonus. They should be untradable as mentioned.

A few examples might be like this:

Advanced Formations:
Classical Era
Prereq: ?
Applies to: Swordsmen and Spearmen
Effect: Swordsmen and Spearmen recieves a +20% when defending. Swordsmen and Spearmen cost an additional 8/10/14/20 hammers (depending on game speed (Q/N/E/M) to produce.

Forged Arrowheads:
Medieval Era
Prereq: Archery, Metal Casting
Applies to: Archers and Crossbows
Effect: When attacking, archers and crossbows recieve a +25% bonus against cavalry. Archers and crossbows cost an additional 12/15/20/30 Hammers to produce.

Something like this, more specialized against certain enemies. There could also be specializations working the other way around, ie. Removing Swordsmens bonus versus cities in order to make them cheaper, or give axemen a penalty against archers to make them faster to sprawl.
Just a suggestion.
 
These deadend techs, will you only be able to pick one for each era? And wouldn't all civs discover all?

My thinking is that there would be no restriction upon how many you could have. Remember they are non-tradable, if you research all from one era you will probably be way behind in the next era.

You would only research the military techs only if you had big plans for that unit. Two military techs in one era should be a gambit, but it should put you somewhat behind tech wise. Three should be foolish.

Having +10% strength bowmen, swordsmen, and spearmen won't do you much good Vs. grenadiers and cavalry.

One more thing, a specialized unit upgraded will lose its 10% bonus.
 
This sounds like something ripped from the pages of Blizzard.

WarCraft, WarCraft II, StarCraft and WarCraft III all have this style of upgrading.

I think if it's implemented in Civilization, it should not be a technology. Instead, certain technologies allow you to build certain buildings. Those buildings would then be able to devote :hammers: or :commerce: towards developing said upgrades.

All in all, I like the sound of it, but combat is so screwed up already that it needs fundamental work -- not more icing such as this.
 
Some nice ideas, but i'm not so sure sbout adding extra cost to units after the research is done, surely you've invested enough resources into the discovery of the technology without having to spend more hammers creating a better unit, surely research should come up with more efficient way of making the superior unit.
 
It's a nice idea, but I think it's too complicated to put in the main game; many people probably wouldn't like it. It's absolutely perfect mod material though, go for it!
 
It's a nice idea, but I think it's too complicated to put in the main game; many people probably wouldn't like it. It's absolutely perfect mod material though, go for it!

If I just knew how to mod, I'd definately go for it... Learn me!
OK, how would you have it?

Liiike, perhaps this:
The 3 largest cities in your empire recieves +1:gp:(Great prophet) - sets back the :gp:cost of Great People by one (counting as if one less had been born). Perhaps?
 
I am tired of hearing all these overpowering arguements. Half of them make no sense. Especially when you claim it is "waaay" to overpowering. How is the first to research getting a Great Prophet way to overpowering?

Waaay to overpower.
 
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