More help please

[civnoob13]

I know I ask for help a lot but I really am terrible at this game. I have read the guides BTW.

Anyway, what would you do here?

Spoiler :

I have enabled permanent alliances, random seed on reload (which I now realise is very stupid thing to do) and obviously unrestricted leaders

Spoiler :

I class myself as very lucky with this start. I am planning to research masonary, get my stone and build stonehenge after a warrior and a settler.

Is my exploring path good?

Thanks in advance

I am planning to build my second city 5E and 1W from my capital so I can properly take advantage of the gold from the silver and fur (if the land there is in any way good)

 

[vranasm]

you should tech hunting->ah->mining

i wouldnt plan so many scouting turns in advance because it's useless until you exactly know the layout, direction at first should be more to silver to see if there is food resource

I wish you better land to north, since the start isnt great in any sense. btw why balanced map type? More standard are continents/fractal

 

[civnoob13]

thanks. i'll cancel those scouting moves.

Why wouldn't you class the start as good? It will grow pretty quickly, have some decent gold and decent places for cottages too. It's not great but better than what I usually get.

I don't really get what maps do what, so i'll use fractal next time

Okay, I've explored a little

Spoiler :

I now think I will settle where my mouse is pointing for a decent food source and a good cottage site with 2 food on each tile. Good idea?

 

[Nothingontv]

Looks like coast in the south. I hardly ever settle my first cities towards the coast because you won't find the AI there and you need to expand towards them.

 

[civnoob13]

Looks like coast in the south. I hardly ever settle my first cities towards the coast because you won't find the AI there and you need to expand towards them.

Yeah, i didn't notice that cost originally. I will expand out N for a while but I will settle there eventually

 

[Cam_H]

[Hideous Crosspost]

vranasm's right ... less 'challenging' map settings would help.

Go for the huts. The first will pop in 5 turns, but I'd go straight for that second one to the north (which is where you should be looking for your second city site anyway imho).

 

[civnoob13]

what's so bad about a balanced map?

I usually go for balanced, is that why i'm not doing so well?

 

[vranasm]

sheep+deer are not best sources of food. that sheep on hill gives only 3 food if i see correctly,
why you didnt improve deer first? (before fur), connecting resources at this time of game was a bit too soon.

i wouldnt build settler at size 1, would have let grow into size 2 at least working deer+sheep.

3N of stone has some nice potential for full cottage site, eventually moving there cap for bureau+oxford+academy

cow+wheat spot looks like nice prod. city

@Nothingontv

you're right I wouldnt settle there 2nd city, but if there were seafood i would consider it as 4th for the silver (commerce+happy)

 

[civnoob13]

vranasm - thanks - i am planning to settle where you say, that nice cottage area first and then that coastal area with the silver (it has crab) as fourth or fifth.

When would you classically build a settler? I know i want stonehenge ASAP but I thought that settling the second city very early on would give a great research / military bonus

 

[vranasm]

vranasm - thanks - i am planning to settle where you say, that nice cottage area first and then that coastal area with the silver (it has crab) as fourth or fifth.

When would you classically build a settler? I know i want stonehenge ASAP but I thought that settling the second city very early on would give a great research / military bonus

it depends

usually i start building settler around size 3-4, sometimes size 2 if the surroundings call for it.
It's important how many good tiles you have around and when they are ready to work.
In your situation i see there 3 good tiles - deer (first good tile should be improved first), sheep (second) and stone (mined over!), so you could eventually wait to size 3 before first settler building warriors for fogbusting.

I wouldnt hunt any wonders...especially not before initial expansion phase (first 4 cities). City at east coast could eventually overtake worker+settler pump, north is clear commerce, south is so-so (mostly just for the happy face).
Capital then can make things...

where to place your first library will be tricky here, since usually cap is used since usually it has really good food surplus, that you not have. But you want GS for academy at the northern city definitely.

I hope you find more better land around . This map script doesnt scream "fun" for me.

 

[civnoob13]

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I am planning to expand near this great horse / copper area I just found. Should I go to the coast and get a lighthouse or try to go for the deer and get a decent food resource?

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I just built stonehenge BTW

 

[civnoob13]

thanks vranasm, I just like SH because I am pretty culture lazy and SH saves a great amount of

I'll keep that settler tip in mind and go for a fractal map next time

 

[ahcos]

1. this start sucks, it just has not enough food. plain sheeps is bad, so is deer.
2. your second city simply has not a single hill in its BFC - that's really, really bad because you won't have any short-term production there. even raw commerce cities need the multipliers (libraries, universities, banks, happy-buildings, health-buildings etc.) to be really usefull, a second-class coastal city can be more useful for your empire than this city because it can actually build something you'll need to whip alot here, and that will be bad for growth of cottages. any other use beside cottages is waste in this city, it can be a very good production city after MC, guilds, chemistry and communism, but that's a loooong road. try to always get hills in your cities BFCs, always.
3. you shouldn't set waypoints for your scout, but rather move it from turn to turn so you can chose the optimal path. try to end every turn in woods and/or on hills so your scout lasts as long as possible.
4. grow your capital before building a settler.
5. you don't need roads that early, or at least you don't need them to the resources right away. priorize tile improvements over roads, but try to pre-build a road to your second city as it will give you an instant commerce boost.
6. building wonders is a waste here, you NEED to expand as fast as humanly possible as your land seems pretty crappy and you'll be boxed in by victoria otherwise - well, it's "only" noble, but as your second city already has only minor production capability ... try to build towards vicky as far as possible.

 

[vicawoo]

Plains deer is a good tile, especially forested (roading tiles halves forest growth).
Land is fine, you just started in the tundra. Thankfully, you're allowed to build new settlers and move them northward.

Having to build a monument before being able to work any good tiles in your 2nd city is by far the biggest mistake. This will probably cut your empire expansion by 1/3

 

[Nothingontv]

I would probably have placed that second city 1 SW for some hills and to be riverside.

@Vicawoo.

Having to build a monument before being able to work any good tiles in your 2nd city is by far the biggest mistake. This will probably cut your empire expansion by 1/3

Is it really that important? I hardly ever take that into consideration but if it matters that much i probably should.

 

[lymond]

civnoob - part of your problem may be indicative of you classifying this as a good start. While not terrible it is certainly not good. What that says to me is you have yet to learn the major importance of food in this game. This is further witnessed by the fact you did not improve deer first, which has a +2 bonus on the sheep hill. Did you tech hunting first?

I would also learn to do without Stonehenge. There are so many other important things to do to get your empire up and running. Monuments are easy 2 pop whips in new cities. i value more workers and settlers a thousand times more than Stonecringe. Instead of Stonehenge you might actually have more cities and improvements.

I generally don't advise building worker first in new cities as you have in City 2. Let the cap take care of workers now that it has more production. In new cities it just stunts the growth and makes them unproductive for too long. Look to get new cities prospering asap to take some of the load off the cap - like building units.

While City 2 is not terrible, you might have shared the wealth with all those river tiles. Also, if you can, look to get food resources in the 1st tier do that the city can grow quickly. Look to leverage rivers like that for trade routes (and fresh water when you can). Two cities could overlap a bit here to work more cottages longer, then switch one of the cities to another purpose like production.

When you settle a new city and have the worker turns try to road it asap or road to the rivers to get the trade routes going. Otherwise, send the 1st worker to improve the new city and build a new worker in the cap.

Why are you building a scout right now?

 

[nbcman]

@ vicawoo

He built stonehenge.

@civnoob13

I agree with achos regarding your 2nd city. I would have placed it 1SW to pick up 4 hills. Your capital is too food poor to work the hill tile that would have been shared between your two cities.

I would go one off the coast for the deer-copper-horse-silver city. But have you scouted to the south near the river delta? There may be a seafood special there. If so, you may want to settle such that you can get the copper and the eastern silver along with the seafood.

 

[lymond]

@ vicawoo

He built stonehenge.

vicawoo still made a good point though

 

[civnoob13]

Thanks for all the help - I continued the game and although I started out as by far the best player, I started to stagnate later and then was a good 300 points behind some civs - i gave up at that point.

I'll keep your tips in mind for the next time.

 

[lymond]

Thanks for all the help - I continued the game and although I started out as by far the best player, I started to stagnate later and then was a good 300 points behind some civs - i gave up at that point.

I'll keep your tips in mind for the next time.

Well, there may be other reasons to stop but score should not be one of them. Try posting smaller turnsets. We may still get you through this game.