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More info from an E3 demo

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by mjs0, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    Some interesting additional info and confirmations in this writeup:

    Puppets give you their gold, culture and science but not production:
    Embarking units takes a turn:
    Cultural victory requires filling 6 of 10 social policy trees then building a wonder:
    Wonder bonus from Tradition.Aristocracy:
    More confirmation of 1 civ = 1 vote:
    More on the science victory:
     
  2. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    As I expected. I wonder if it has to be a full turn; ie unit has to have full movement points to start the load. Or if loading just takes up all remaining movement points of a unit.

    Sounds like culture points are the only binding constraint. No exclusivity.
    So, you can have Aristocracy from tradition tree AND liberal democracy=type things from the Liberty tree, and get both benefits simultaneously.

    I don't like this. Social policies should have tradeoffs, not be More is Better.

    Particularly with vassalization gone and puppet states being different, it sounds like there are strong incentives to get complete kills on your enemies.
     
  3. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    Without playing the game and seeing it in context it is tough to predict which would be more balanced. I would imagine this is the sort of final tweaking and balancing that will go on over the next couple of months and it may not be written in stone yet.
    When I heard Meier speak during the GDC keynote this was exactly the sort of thing I feared; most choices will be between one bonus and another with fewer tradeoffs that actually include negatives.
    ...and yet strangely, at least one victory condition for warmongers has been changed to deemphasize this by requiring that only capitals be taken.
     
  4. Tylerryan79

    Tylerryan79 Emperor

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    This is interesting, the new razing mechanic: When you do get to take over a city, you now have a third option instead of capturing it outright and adding it to your civ or razing the city to the ground (which now takes a turn for each population size number).

    The description of the spaceship traveling to the capital:And Here: We got to see this in action during the demo. Playing as Rome, we used a gunship helicopter unit to scope out Montezuma's territory and saw that he was trucking the last spaceship part, the cockpit, to his capital of Tenochitlan. Because he's deployed quite a defensive position, with anti-tank guns and SAM units entrenched on a mountain range, there's no way that the Romans could take the capital through conventional weapons. That left only one possibility: Nuke 'em back to the Stone Age.

    The ICBM blast animation was impressive, filling the screen with white light and leaving a huge mushroom cloud over what was left of the Aztec capital. Tanks that were conveniently placed outside the blast range of the nuke then steamrolled into the city and captured it. Oh, and the spaceship cockpit was incinerated, stopping Montezuma's space victory in its tracks. [/
    B]

    This sounds like a nice addition. Its nothing major, but can definetly make things that more fun.
     
  5. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    I missed that on my first read through...but I really like it...great change.
     
  6. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I don't mind every social policy giving only bonuses, but I do mind that you can simultaneously run all policies at once.

    I would have done it differently; rather than 10 policy fields, you might have 5 pairs of fields, each of which is a pair of polar opposites. Liberty/Tyranny, Centralization/Decentralization, Quantity/Quality, Religion/Enlightenment (or something), and so on.

    Suppose you purchase Liberty level 1; that then blocks progress in Tyranny. You can then buy Liberty 2. But if you want to change over to Tyranny, you have 2 levels so you can switch to Tyranny 2, but you have to pay a revolution cost to do this (in culture, or anarchy, or both) and then you get the benefits of Tyranny 1 and Tyranny 2, but lose the benefits of Liberty.

    Otherwise its like if you could simultaneously run all the civics in Civ4 simultaneously, and learning Fascism or Democracy just let you add that bonus onto the top.

    Agreed; they can't destroy your city if you're in a position to take it back in a turn or two. Very nice.
     
  7. Nicolas10

    Nicolas10 Warlord

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    Yeah, that razing adjustment is really cool... and kind of gruesome when you think about it :).

    Slowly grinding down an enemy populace. Seems like that would generate some unhappiness. And the Annexation factor is cool, too. Nice changes.
     
  8. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    Yep, this was my point, just poorly worded. All you do is accumulate bonuses and you don't have to relinquish existing ones (which would be a negative) in order to adopt a new one.
     
  9. Esckey

    Esckey Deity

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    If it takes several turns to raze a town then an opposing force should beable to take it back in that time span. Sounds awesome
     
  10. Thyrwyn

    Thyrwyn Guardian at the Gate

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    Yep, the new razing mechanic is very cool.
     
  11. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Just a guess; but I wonder if a city being razed can't defend itself from recapture.

    I also wonder if a newly conquered enemy city starts with ~1 hit point or something and only gradually builds up defenses, so that it is easily reconquered unless defended by units in the surrounding area. Or maybe defensive structures get destroyed when the city is captured.

    I'm guessing cultural defenses for cities are probably gone; defense probably depends on population size and buildings (and tech, I guess).
     
  12. GigaNerd

    GigaNerd His Nerdiness

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    Utopia? Nice!!! :cheers:
     
  13. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    And you can get there, if you just build more theaters and invest more in autocracy and tradition....
     
  14. Col Kurtz

    Col Kurtz Warlord

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    I swear I remember a Civ IV mod with this same exact feature. Does anybody else remember such a thing, or have a link to it? Anyway, I love this change. It really didn't make much sense the old way. When you decide to start razing the city after capturing it, I wonder if you can change your mind a few turns down the road before it's completely destroyed.

    Also, with the puppet state thing. Do we know if the puppet state gets a vote in the UN? I'm guessing not. Also, it's been mentioned that you can later assimilate a puppet state. I'm curious what conditions may have to be met to allow this, or if you can do it whenever you want.
     
  15. grumbler

    grumbler Prince

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    From the wording of
    I'd guess they do. A puppet is still a civ, isn't it?

    Also, seems that you'll really want to get those city states on your side!
     
  16. Insanity_X

    Insanity_X Warlord

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    Or conquer them so that they don't get to take one.
     
  17. Tylerryan79

    Tylerryan79 Emperor

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    About the social policy thing, and how everyone for the most part is concerned about the stacking effect (Im with you here, I hope we are missing something) remember Jon Shafer said that some of the policies only work during certain eras, so the bonuses aren't going to stack the whole game. But that being said, I also dont like how basicly, as Ahriman puts it, you can be a tyrant and a democracy all at once. Hopefully like I said, we are missing some key peice of information.
     
  18. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    It sounds like a puppet state is really a city you conquer that gives you its income, for whom you don't have to pay maintenance (or suffer unhappiness) but you don't get to choose what it builds.

    Unclear if it becomes part of your civ in border terms or not.

    It feels a bit like they're strongly encouraging you to use this as a "governor" type feature.
     
  19. Ricci

    Ricci Prince

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    "You don't have to build transports and fill them up with units anymore," Shirk said. "Now, they take the turn, and load themselves into the water. It's like they're loading themselves onto a ship, but they're defenseless.

    This is probably the worst tweak I read about so far. Land units disembarking and reembarking anywhere in the map???!!!:confused::confused:
    No more aiming to the enemy's vessels in order to cut off his logistic capabilities!! (seems less strategy)
    How it will be possible to defend your land properly with rival soldiers moving back and forth into the water???!!!
    Soldiers going through sea are defenseless?? At least galleys and galleons had a chance to defend an evade by themselves. LAnd units and sea units are diferent categories and neither should be made amphibious.
    So many new situations to deal with.
     
  20. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    You realize these are contradictory concerns, right?

    As to answering:
    a) Use a navy
    b) Use a navy. [You can still stack a land unit in transport form with a naval unit, or you could just clear out their navy first - they can't hide it in ports anymore]

    Which is good, no? We don't want Civ 4.1.
     

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