Morocco

[Galbias]

I think the coastal boost is a consolation prize. You definitely want to minimize the amount of ocean next to the city, since Kasbah tiles are way better than boosted coastal tiles.

Yeah, pretty much. It'd be great if you got some spot with 5 land tiles that were adjacent to coastal tiles themselves, because I believe the additional yields to adjacent Fishing Boats/Coastal tiles do stack, but in practice you usually just end up with 1-3 tiles boosted, which is still better than nothing.

 

[Leondegrance]

Late game Kasbah. Impressive CPT. Each Kasbah is a wonder in itself.

You will notice the two mines. I probably forgot to turn them into Kasbah.

The Kasbah to the right of the city is unusual yield. Looks like a great scientist maybe. And the shield production on this is way too high compared to the other Kasbahs. Don't remember what is going on there with it. Oh it is a stone resource, that explains the shield. Yeah beautiful Kasbah that one.

I never really pursued culture victory so far. I am playing another map with Morocco where I am trying to do that. Imagine every city looking like the screenshot below, surrounded by mini wonders

This particular map below is my first full attempt at VP. I am not finishing it, I think I am almost at the Atomic Era there. But I just know that I am losing this game (King difficulty). Austria is unstoppable and I am not even in the top of the leaderboard. I thought that maybe I can use the accumulated faith (almost 30 000) to rush great scientists but then I think that it won't help either. Because in VP they don't give much science anymore.

 

[tu_79]

Late game Kasbah. Impressive CPT. Each Kasbah is a wonder in itself.

You will notice the two mines. I probably forgot to turn them into Kasbah.

The Kasbah to the right of the city is unusual yield. Looks like a great scientist maybe. And the shield production on this is way too high compared to the other Kasbahs. Don't remember what is going on there with it. Oh it is a stone resource, that explains the shield. Yeah beautiful Kasbah that one.

I never really pursued culture victory so far. I am playing another map with Morocco where I am trying to do that. Imagine every city looking like the screenshot below, surrounded by mini wonders

This particular map below is my first full attempt at VP. I am not finishing it, I think I am almost at the Atomic Era there. But I just know that I am losing this game (King difficulty). Austria is unstoppable and I am not even in the top of the leaderboard. I thought that maybe I can use the accumulated faith (almost 30 000) to rush great scientists but then I think that it won't help either. Because in VP they don't give much science anymore.


View attachment 506417

As you show in your game, Kasbah is great, but it limits the placement for farms and villages, meaning less food (thus population) and less gold, so you are forced to make gold from trade routes.
Tactically, the defense bonus makes Morocco great at defense, but you need to let enemies into your first city ring, and your other tiles might get pillaged.

 

[CppMaster]

Why Kasbah on the right provide science?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I bet there's a resource of some sort underneath. It can be a strategic buffed by rationalism (+ monopoly?) despite a Kasbah being there.

 

[Leondegrance]

Why Kasbah on the right provide science?

Went back to the save to see what is going on with that Kasbah. As the above reply suggests, the resource beneath is aluminum in combination with Rationalism (+5 science per each strategic resource). Also + 3 hammers per resource. That explains both the high science and production on it. It is not a great scientist as I initially thought to be. In fact, need to correct myself that a Kasbah is incompatible with Academy.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I'm not sure if this is fixed or not but, when you play as Morocco and go to war with someone, you can't pillage their TR that goes to your cities. Is that intended or just happened to be the unintentional result of them being able to pillage all TR except those going to their cities when at peace?

 

[tu_79]

I'm not sure if this is fixed or not but, when you play as Morocco and go to war with someone, you can't pillage their TR that goes to your cities. Is that intended or just happened to be the unintentional result of them being able to pillage all TR except those going to their cities when at peace?

I'd bet it was unintended.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I'd bet it was unintended.

I've already reported that issue a month ago and it was stated it will be fixed for next version (this one).

 

[Edaka]

I feel luke Morocco is always the top dog whenever he appears in my games. I personally suspect that kasbahs may be a tad too strong, especially on the culture front, since Morocco always seems to dominate policy wise.

Has anybody else observed that?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I feel luke Morocco is always the top dog whenever he appears in my games. I personally suspect that kasbahs may be a tad too strong, especially on the culture front, since Morocco always seems to dominate policy wise.

Has anybody else observed that?

The major power from Morocco dont come from its Kasbahs. They are very good, but their placement is limited.
It comes from the trade routes. I always thought, the yields in the capital for exclusive trade partners is too low in comparison to the Ottomans or Portugal, but the ability to ignore the trade route length penalty is able to give you such an tremendous amount of yields. I would say, the amoun of yields you get from not getting hit by the penalty is as big as the yields from the UA for the capital. Some versions ago I was able to earn over 2k income by a 5 city tall empire.
Morocco is strong, but you need to stay all time friendly with most of your neighbors to sustain your trade routes (something that makes their ability to pillage trade routes without war kinda counterproductive).
CS Travel Ban is a killer, Sanction too, if stroked by one of the two options you kinda lose 80% of our civilization traits. You are also forced to use your trade routes for international trade, mostly to CS. Any focus for internal trade would be a waste.

 

[Stalker0]

Morocco is good but I don't see them as dominant. They don't snowball in the way I see China often do for example.

 

[ridjack]

I was actually just coming to comment on this independently. Something is definitely up with Morocco. He's appeared in my last four games, and he's been the #1 civ in three of them, and in the top 3 in the last one. More than anything else, he's consistently been the tech leader, staying anywhere from 3 to ~6 techs ahead for a good chunk of the game.

My current game is a perfect example. Of sixteen civs, I've met all but four. Morocco has 32 techs; second place is Assyria, a civ with a science focus. He has 28 techs.

I do play with 3/4UC, but that only adds a unique Corvette that can enter other civs borders and a unique Garden that gives some some Great Merchant Points.

It's been bad enough that I'm going to disable Morocco after this game if nothing changes. The only other civ I've ever done that with was Venice back when he only served to act as free land for his neighbors.

 

[azum4roll]

He's still that good after the CS trade route nerf? He's usually the policy leader in my 7-29-1 games, but he rarely leads in tech. Playing with larger map/higher amount of CS benefits him too.

 

[ridjack]

I'm on the newest patch, so the nerfs didn't seem to bother him much.

 

[Stalker0]

Can someone remind what conditions are required for Moroccos trade route plunder special? I've seen several cases where I could not plunder a person's routes, and I don't know why (this is before corporations)

 

[LifeOfBrian]

If they are sent to your cities, you cannot plunder them. That's it, as far as I know.

 

[azum4roll]

There was a bug that causes Morocco unable to plunder trade routes sent to you by your enemy during war. That should be fixed already.

 

[myeong1129]

Isn't it about time to nerf Morocco? I see them on the first place almost every game that I play if they exist. Their trade route yield is so broken that it earns 1100+ gpt in Industrial era when others only earn maximum 500+. Of course Morocco is weak in the early games, but many other civs like Austria, Korea, and Brazil does so too, and none of them are as powerful as Morocco in the late game. Also to consider that AI can't really think that they should beat up Morocco from early game and avoid trading with Morocco, it is really difficult to stop Morocco from growing as a player, especially when it is in other continent.

Not only that, aside from their own performance, the existence of Morocco already seem to break the balance between the continent that has Morocco and other continents that don't. Civs in the same continent with Morocco generally becomes far more wealthy and therefore more stronger. All those problems, I believe, is due to their ability to ignore trade distance penalty as it means they always earn the best profit from each of their trade routes in and out. So I suggest that it should be shifted with less powerful ability that earns them gold, but not as much as now.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Isn't it about time to nerf Morocco? I see them on the first place almost every game that I play if they exist. Their trade route yield is so broken that it earns 1100+ gpt in Industrial era when others only earn maximum 500+. Of course Morocco is weak in the early games, but many other civs like Austria, Korea, and Brazil does so too, and none of them are as powerful as Morocco in the late game. Also to consider that AI can't really think that they should beat up Morocco from early game and avoid trading with Morocco, it is really difficult to stop Morocco from growing as a player, especially when it is in other continent.

Not only that, aside from their own performance, the existence of Morocco already seem to break the balance between the continent that has Morocco and other continents that don't. Civs in the same continent with Morocco generally becomes far more wealthy and therefore more stronger. All those problems, I believe, is due to their ability to ignore trade distance penalty as it means they always earn the best profit from each of their trade routes in and out. So I suggest that it should be shifted with less powerful ability that earns them gold, but not as much as now.

Morocco is strong in good circumstances. The amount of money you can earn with them can really skyrocket later on, but it needs time to come to this point. The civ is a late bloomer, cause the Kasbah needs long to be unlocked and in the early game +2 or +4 to all yields in your capital is the maximum you get out of your UA, thats not really overwhelming. If other civs block your access to the rest of the map or you are near warmongers, which permanently threaten your trade units, Morocco is not really that funny.
Its in my eyes an A tier civ in human hands, but not overpowered.
But the ability to pillage trade units without war, could be removed, as a slight nerf. This ability makes not really sense. As a civ which dont want to bring its trade units in danger, you want good relations with others, but pillaging their units always pisses them off, nearly all the time whatever you do. Its contrary to the rest of the build of Morocco.

Moroccos power comes half by the removed distance penalty for trade units, which didnt show me, that Morocco is overpowered, but more, that this mechanic is less an interesting mechanic but simply more an unnecessary annoyance.