Morroco UA : What do you think it should have?

[Question]

I think the biggest flaw is that it is per trade partner, not per trade route. In my experience at least, i always end up with most of my trade routes going to the same civ on the same continent (who is usually the strongest with the biggest cities). Forcing me to trade with subpar partners to get the UA bonus makes me lose out on a LOT of gold, and 1 culture is just a drop in the bucket.

How would you change the UA other than just increasing the bonuses?

 

[Sharples]

Morroco UA is just fine. It encourages other civilizations to trade with you which in turn gives you more money. I think Morroco also gets 3+ gold and 1+ culture when a civilization trades with them, although I'm not sure, but I think I saw it.

 

[Ryoga]

The real advantage of Morocco's UA lies in that +2 gold that CIVs get by trading with him.

You get more foreign trade routes for yourself while decreasing those to the others. It's not an advantage that should be underestimated.

If Morocco is in your map and you care about getting the most from your economy, you better kill it.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Civs sending trade routes to Morocco are less likely to DOW. Assuming Morocco hasn't done anything stupid it would make sense to have a DOF with them.

 

[joncnunn]

I think the biggest flaw is that it is per trade partner, not per trade route. In my experience at least, i always end up with most of my trade routes going to the same civ on the same continent (who is usually the strongest with the biggest cities). Forcing me to trade with subpar partners to get the UA bonus makes me lose out on a LOT of gold, and 1 culture is just a drop in the bucket.

How would you change the UA other than just increasing the bonuses?

That's not my experience at all (at least until Freedom ideology and the tenet that boosts trade route income with others with Freedom)

I usually find that when I sort by income, the top 5 routes all being from different civs, normally their capitals.

 

[reddishrecue]

The kashbah ui for Morocco makes desert tiles useful. Trade routes have more culture and more gold than other civilizations.. the ua seems okay to me.

 

[tetley]

I would like Berber cav to add Golden Age points. Morocco has killer GA's with their kasbahs up. They just don't get very many GA's.

 

[Vitruvius]

Lol. First Minuteman now Berbers? Might as well make every UU golden age.
Pedro was already complaining how he gets an infantry replacement with no bonus strength but golden age then Washington gets to golden age with one of the best UUs around.

 

[TheologiaCrucis]

I'm playing a game as Morocco right now. Sharing a boarder with William. He refuses to send any trade routes to my capitol. He's also trying to embargo city states in the World Congress to hurt me.

 

[joncnunn]

I'm playing a game as Morocco right now. Sharing a boarder with William. He refuses to send any trade routes to my capitol. He's also trying to embargo city states in the World Congress to hurt me.

Yes, he doesn't like you. And still wouldn't like you if you weren't playing Morocco.
You're wasting your time in Civ V if you expect your nearest neighbor to like you.
Instead build a military to defend yourself from your nearest neighbor and instead try to get those who aren't your neighbors to like you.

 

[tetley]

Actually I kind of like the idea of all non-OP UU's earning GA points. The age you have your UU is your Golden Age. It encourages more use of UU's and makes them a bigger threat. But I patticularly like it for Morocco because Morocco is not OP, Berber is not OP, and it times right so you get a nice GA right when you have Kasbahs all over--but not so late that you can just drag your feet building them.

Pracinhas being UP is a different issue.

 

[reddishrecue]

Berbers have that +15% bonus in friendly lands.. just like comanche riders have that extra mobility.. WHen it comes to plundering and moving berbers into enemy lands, they're just like all the other cavalries in the game..

 

[TheologiaCrucis]

Yes, he doesn't like you. And still wouldn't like you if you weren't playing Morocco.
You're wasting your time in Civ V if you expect your nearest neighbor to like you.
Instead build a military to defend yourself from your nearest neighbor and instead try to get those who aren't your neighbors to like you.

Yes, it's just a little annoying though because the others really aren't in a good position to get a trade route to my capitol. I find it's often difficult to get East India Trading Co. to pay off for this reason.

Two can play his game though. I've embargoed his precious gems, and he made the foolish mistake of declaring war on the Inca. I denounced him and now every other Civ has followed suit.

Berbers have that +15% bonus in friendly lands.. just like comanche riders have that extra mobility.. WHen it comes to plundering and moving berbers into enemy lands, they're just like all the other cavalries in the game..

You make a good point. I guess Berber Cavalry is a pretty underwhelming UU. The desert terrain is very situational, on the offensive at least. The Shoshone UU get the 15% in any terrain in their territory through their UA, as well as the mobility bonus.

Still, they're one of the coolest looking UUs around, I think.

 

[Question]

I find that usually, there isnt enough desert terrain for the berber cav/kasbahs.

Also the kasbahs come too little, too late imho. Keep in mind that you would usually have those desert spots settled well before you get kasbahs, and they dont do anything except turn desert into plains with trading posts. Actually its worse than plains because a plains trading post would get bonuses from economics/commerce, which kasbahs do not get...

So before you get kasbahs your desert cities are worse off from another civ who has settled in plains/grasslands and after, they are only equal at best.

In my last game all my biggest trade routes were from my capital to portugal. They were the largest civ with coastal trade routes available, so it was a no brainer...

 

[Trackmaster]

I think the biggest flaw is that it is per trade partner, not per trade route. In my experience at least, i always end up with most of my trade routes going to the same civ on the same continent (who is usually the strongest with the biggest cities). Forcing me to trade with subpar partners to get the UA bonus makes me lose out on a LOT of gold, and 1 culture is just a drop in the bucket.

How would you change the UA other than just increasing the bonuses?

But that's the whole point of why they did it that way. They wanted to make you plan for it, and not just make it too easy. Also, consider that it's not all about straight gold and science. Trading with more Civs improves your relations (because you only get the diplomatic benefit for one trade route per Civ and CS). Also, where your sending your religious pressure is a consideration.

 

[Question]

But i still dont see how this UA is better than going say, portugal, which generates a ton more gold...

 

[Trackmaster]

So basically with Portugal, you get +1 gold per luxury for your trading routes instead of +0.5. I haven't played as this Civ before, but it sounds like this may be better than Morocco's. But keep in mind that part of Morocco's advantage is that it encourages other Civs to trade with you, giving you more gold and science, and keeps you out of harms way by making it less attractive to wipe you out. A good thing if you're not going for Domination Victory.

 

[Question]

Hmm but doesnt having a large city make you more attractive as a trading partner anyway? I cant quite figure out how trading gold is calculated because the "City X gold per turn" figures in the trade windows make no sense.

Also im playing on king and i have no issues whatsoever staying out of harm's way usually...might be different on higher difficulties.

 

[Vitruvius]

From my experience, Morocco is the only civ that attracts a ton of trade routes from AIs. The +3gold +1 culture is minor. But the key is you are attracting trade routes and hence less aggression and more science.

 

[Sorinth]

I find that usually, there isnt enough desert terrain for the berber cav/kasbahs.

Also the kasbahs come too little, too late imho. Keep in mind that you would usually have those desert spots settled well before you get kasbahs, and they dont do anything except turn desert into plains with trading posts. Actually its worse than plains because a plains trading post would get bonuses from economics/commerce, which kasbahs do not get...

So before you get kasbahs your desert cities are worse off from another civ who has settled in plains/grasslands and after, they are only equal at best.

In my last game all my biggest trade routes were from my capital to portugal. They were the largest civ with coastal trade routes available, so it was a no brainer...

Isn't the main benefit of the Kasbah using them on Desert Hills? Then you are looking at 1F 3H 1G which depending on the number of hills might very well be worth it.