Moscow starting situation ******ed

[artyom]

I would give Muscovy AI rank # 3 as the worst AI on the map. Rank #1 would be austria and #2 would be ottoman empire.

Anyways, I just started a muscovy game and on turn 8 or so I had 2 keshiks spawn right newt to my capital city, moscow. Needless to say, it is vvery frustrating. By turn # 8 you cannot have any infrastructure to send reinforcements, nor can you station troops in your capital because your supposed to try to achieve UHV#1

edit: I know russia is very easy as is any other civ, but like these random keshiks spawns can really ruin your day....

 

[dmitrytrue]

I'd wish to see a bit early spawn of Muscovy, maybe in 1260-1280 or so, at cost of a bit worse modifiers(growth, prod etc.)
it would be much more realistic and historical, and ofcourse much more interesting.
Most lands flipping to Moscow on spawn in 1380, actually were annexed much much earlier.
You can just read about this somewhere, a lot of events happened in the end of 13 century-beginning of 14 century.
I hope AbsinteRed will read this, and will make some changes, because Muscovy's gameplay most boring in the mod (late start, too remoted from others)

 

[AbsintheRed]

I hope AbsinteRed will read this, and will make some changes, because Muscovy's gameplay most boring in the mod (late start, too remoted from others)

I read everything in the RFCE forums
We can talk about changing Muscovy, Sweden is already being moved to an earlier spawn date
Let's hear some opinions on it

 

[merijn_v1]

2 dates that I think would be the most historical are:
1147: First historical mention of Moscow. Although Moscow is established earlier.

1283: Establishment of the Grand Duchy of Moscow.

Personally, I think 1283 would be the most historical option.


Some time ago, Moscow started in 1000 AD. Because that isn't very historical, it was moved back the timeline. (according to the changelog, that happend in Beta 7, over 2 years ago) The starting date was set so late (1380 AD) so it would spawn after the Mongols, to avoid the problems in the first post. (mongols at spawn making it very hard to build initial infrastructure)
1380 was the date of the Battle of Kulikovo, which was the start of the liberation of Russia from the Mongols.

 

[dmitrytrue]

The starting date was set so late (1380 AD) so it would spawn after the Mongols, to avoid the problems in the first post. (mongols at spawn making it very hard to build initial infrastructure)
1380 was the date of the Battle of Kulikovo, which was the start of the liberation of Russia from the Mongols.

I think, let them spawn in 1283. And let mongols appear from time to time, like it is happens now, to represent limited authority of the Golden Horde (they recieved tribute, but mostly Muscovy was independent princedom, because mongols themselves never didn't rule there, Muscovy even take part in few wars with Lituania and Princdom of Tver'). Noone told, that it would be easy ;D Less in the beginning, more and more with the time, up to ~1400year, after 1400year less, and in ~1600 mongols stops to appear.
edit: events in 1380 wasn't just a date of some kind of liberation, it was event helped to strengthen enfluence of Moscow in regions, that we call Russia now. There was different princedoms hostile to Moscow, Litva and mongolian khans themselves, etc.
here is many different points of view, but anyway, we talking about a game, and I am sure, spawning date must be earlier. Will be much more interesting to play as Muscovy.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

It depends. If you're lucky you will flip half a dozen Keshiks on spawn.

 

[artyom]

what if Moscow spawns much earlier than 1280, like 1100. That way, they could help kiev fight against the mongols, since Kiev gets decimated every game by 1275.. This would ofcourse lead to new issues (kievan territorial UHV for example)

 

[Chep]

I have to say I quite enjoy my game with Russia.
I always keep 1-2 defenders in each city so the Keshiks were not much of a problem due to the default wins (without them they could possibly really ruin your day).

UHV1 wasn't difficult at all, although I was tempted to go after Lituania, but then things might have been close with the UHV.

Right now I am at ~1600 and I have a rare game without France - which is quite bad because it means that Spain (conquered Portugal & Cordoba and owns half of northern Africa), England (with its vasall the vikings) and Germany own the rich French lands. Especially Germany which has Poland, Lituania, Austria and Hungary as its vasalls is incredibly powerful.
In the south I have the Ottomans (no Arabs/Byzantine) with their vasall Bulgaria.

A nice game with lots of powerful empires.
And it really is one of the few "quiet" builder-games I've had so far where you could build a huge Empire. (Spain and Poland being the other 2)
Moving them closer to Kiev/Poland/Lituania would make them less of a different experience in my opinion. It would be more "build cities and battle barbs" like with Cordoba, Poland, Kiev (haven't tried Lituania so far) and others.

 

[artyom]

It all depends on the starting situation on load.
I think most of my games were easy with russia as well and some were interesting.
Its just that this one game, you havve keships spawn next to your capital...

 

[Chep]

sure there can be really tough starts but I think the default-wins vs barbs make most of them easier.
I just retried and started right when there was a Plague all around me, which quickly spread to me (turn 5 or so). that was really awful. (since I hadn't had any health-resources connected) But happens and you either accept that the game is a lot more difficult than usual or just restart.

This can happen to most starts. My last Dutch one was one with an immediate declaration of war from Germany & England (and a collapsed France) meaning my coast was always blocked by 5+ ships while Spain & Portugal build colonies without pause.

Moving Moscow back to 1283 might make them less vulnerable to setbacks like early barbs or the plague, but I'm really afraid it would change the nice different playstyle from other civs to something more "mainstream".

 

[dmacarro]

What I dont get about their starting situation is that they never seem to found Moscow? Their units spawn about 4 tiles east of Moscow and their capital is Pavlovo in the Murom province

 

[DC123456789]

Are you playing 1.1? I think the city name maps in that version are screwed up there in Russia. It's fixed in the SVN.

But yes, Moscow is in Murom, which is something I think should probably be fixed.

 

[saddam_who_sane]

I think spawn of Muscovy must remain in 1380. I more interested in possibility of creating of "siberian route" as such as "atlantic access resource". For example, it may require Public Works tech (to build an improvement, which gives access to siberian colonial projects and so on)

 

[DC123456789]

I think I'm most concerned about the fact that Moscow is still in Murom Province.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I think I'm most concerned about the fact that Moscow is still in Murom Province.

Yeah, sry
I always forget to fix that

 

[gilgames]

Beside fixing that, the idea of siberian "transrail" and/or colonies is a nice idea at alll...
I start with them again, feedback soon

 

[gilgames]

So I won them again, but now a 100 years later the readon to my late was i changed religion to islam xd
it took some time to build up that, but was fun!

ps: moscow issue solvad in svn 1086