Most Balanced Map Type?

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Jdoug312, Jul 18, 2021.

  1. Jdoug312

    Jdoug312 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    I think small continents gives the best balance of land and sea-based civs being viable. Do you have a different pick?
     
  2. andersw

    andersw Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,200
    Location:
    sweden
    Not sure, navy is a big investment and more/less water easily tips the scale for certain civs.
    I mostly play pangea, sometimes continents or community_tu if I want naval to be more relevant.

    That leads to the question ... what maps do @Gazebo do tests on for the AI?
     
  3. InkAxis

    InkAxis King

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2020
    Messages:
    650
    Gender:
    Male
  4. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    955
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pyongyang
    I generally love what Tu & Co. have done, but having no circumvention whatsoever at the poles ruins it for me personally. When you have the majority of the CS placed at the top/bottom of the map, along with over half the civs consistently hugging the borders with practically no vulnerable flanks, it's quite bland IMO. I mean, I guess you can say that's technically balance due to the consistency, but I just don't find the map shapes very engaging/different or "fair", if that makes any sense -- I found most civs can just bunker with their backs against the wall. I tried a few different suggestions in the past, to no avail, but it's been a while and I'll have to give it another shot again sometime, considering the many updates since.

    I just wanted a Continents style map, with Communitas features, but with fixed resources; Milae's Map has essentially achieved this, so I've stuck to it.
     
    m0nk3yst1ck likes this.
  5. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN King

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    774
    Gender:
    Male
    There's an option to turn on circumvention.
     
  6. bonniepbilly

    bonniepbilly Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    117
    I mostly play Milae's map with one rift, it has a good balance between land and water, and I like the uncertainty vs knowing beforehand how many landmasses there are.
    I'd like to better understand the differences with Communitu. The number of options is slightly overwhelming in Communitu...
     
  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,370
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    That's because every one wanted a different thing for the map, so azum4roll took the pain of making all these options available on game setup. But you can leave it on default. I like to have circumnavigation on, and both Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

    I don't get what the problem is with city states allocation. In old communitas there were city states all along the polar channels, which felt weird in my opinion. CS are assigned to locations with poor resources and polar regions usually are the poorest.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  8. bonniepbilly

    bonniepbilly Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    117
    Thanks for the reply @tu_79. Sorry if it's a stupid question, but what does it even mean to have Atlantic vs Pacific ocean?... Are the options explained somewhere?
     
  9. InkAxis

    InkAxis King

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2020
    Messages:
    650
    Gender:
    Male
    It's very nice to have options, but I would agree with bonniepbilly I need much more explanation because it's very confusing.
     
  10. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    955
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pyongyang
    I know that, but it only occurs in the middle of the map; the majority of CS and civs will still be situated along the top/bottom of the map with no northern/southern flank. This is perfectly acceptable for a game or two, but to consistently play map shapes like that is not what I had in mind when Tu first started his task.

    Don't get me wrong, I still love what they've done -- there have been many general improvements made across the board in comparison to what they started with -- but it's just not the go-to map I envisioned. It's great to have options though, so I have nothing but respect for all the time and effort put forth by the community, regardless if it benefits Supreme Leader or not.
     
    Chaste likes this.
  11. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    Maybe an extra option in the circumnavigation path settings for polar?
     
  12. InkAxis

    InkAxis King

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2020
    Messages:
    650
    Gender:
    Male
    I think CS should be placed less predictably.
    I actually don't mind that CS sometimes get good spots, many times they would get a NW which was cool (and often realistic). I guess maybe there were concerns about too many incentives to conquer them?
    In any case I agree it's a little too predictable currently, though not a major issue. Whenever I see tundra I start to expect CS, as if that is where their start bias is.
     
  13. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,370
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    The circumnavigation channel is a line that starts at (1, latitude) and ends at (max_x, latitude), where latitude is either 60 or - 60 degrees. This line wanders following map altitude, but as it approaches the end of the map it slowly returns to the starting latitude. I chose 60 degrees so it separates the map in two thirds for one side, one third for the other.
    But it is very easy to use a random value for the starting latitude if you wish, just avoid values very close to the poles to prevent it from being blocked by ice. A random starting latitude between 15 and 75, either north or south, might work well.

    As for CS allocation, we could politely ask azum4roll to increase their variability (he went into troubles the first time just to fix some problems when I changed the way resources were allocated).
     
  14. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,288
    Where do you get Milae's map?
     
  15. bonniepbilly

    bonniepbilly Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    117
  16. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    It's an AssignStartingPlots thing, so every map gets the same assign algorithm (which wasn't changed much from vanilla, just numbers and the no NW thing). I think their spawns are random enough, with some on tundra, some in desert, some near coasts and some on tiny islands. If you see them lining up uniformly along the north pole it's actually their fallback spots, meaning the generated map doesn't support that many CS.
     
    tu_79 likes this.
  17. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,370
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Does it mean that if too many CS end up near the poles that's because the map doesn't generate enough bonus resources?
     
  18. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    It just means there aren't enough low fertility spots that aren't near any Natural Wonders/major civs.
     
  19. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,370
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Oh. Is there a way to reduce the fertility threshold?
     
    InkAxis likes this.
  20. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,732
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean increase? It's just hardcoded in the lua right now.
     

Share This Page