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Most Desirable Wonders?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by salty mud, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. Orion071

    Orion071 Home School Tutor

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    I usually play Fractal maps or Panagea so the wonders that works for entire continents are best for me - SoL, 3-Gorges Dam, Notre Dame. But the Cristo Redentor is a must-have for me unless I'm spiritual. That thing is just so powerful. It was even more ridiculous before they nerfed it.
     
  2. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

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    SoL is always in my games, except when I play archipelago. I really like the extra specialists. I always avoid early wins, since I enjoy the long game. For me, any game that ends before I have completed most of the tech tree was not played correctly. Please note, this is not a criticism of those that like to win early and fast. It is merely a statement of how I enjoy playing CIV, which makes the SoL a very good wonder.
     
  3. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    Granted, I did not pay attention because I was more of a noob back before most of the patches, but how was the Cristo nerfed? What was it before and what did they do to it?

    Anyways, more on topic, favorite wonder for me would have to be the GLH/Colossus combo. The reason for that is because I have always felt that coastal cities weren't as realistic in civ as real life, so I moded the default output of coasts to provide 2F and 1H. When you combine this with the extra bonus those two wonders give, many coastal cities can really pay off big time.
     
  4. Kjotleik

    Kjotleik Kjotleik

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    Just out of curiousity:

    Did you mod the Coast to give 2:food: + 1:hammers:, but no :commerce: at all? I find that...odd. Because I would think real-life coastal cities were trade-hubs that could become wealthy by trading a lot. I don't think of coastal cities as production-cities in real life.

    But from a game-playing standpoint, I would like a Coast to give a :hammers: as well as two :food: and one :commerce:. That is almost a free Moai Statues wonder in each city from 4000 BC. But then, that would result in less difference between inland and coastal cities. And, thus, less diversity among my cities in-game. That would be a negative thing, wouldn't it?

    So, I'm not fully convinced it is such a good idea, but I'd like to try it once. That is, when I get the time to XML the coast to give me 1:hammers: extra. And time enough for me to actually play-test how it changes the game...



    Yours Sincerely

    Kjotleik of Norway:)
     
  5. Orion071

    Orion071 Home School Tutor

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    When it first came out, there was no restrictions on switching, period. You could switch to Nationhood and Theocracy and draft a few units, then switch to Universal Suffrage and rush-buy a few buildings, then switch to Serfdom and do all of your Worker actions, then switch to your opponents religion and favorite civic to facilitate a trade, then switch back to your regular civics, all in 1 turn. Yes, it was a micromanagement nightmare, but the possibilities were endless. Now you can only switch once a turn.
     
  6. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    2F 2C for coast, 2F 1C for ocean, would be my pick. No hammers. But I would also put in a new building that gives +1H to coasts with Environmentalism and Composites called the Tidal Harness.
     
  7. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    Sorry I didn't mention it. I just left the commerce the default value. I did not like the fact that coastal cities could suffer from lack of production and were sometimes harder to grow. The way I figured, being trade hubs would allow for greater production. I also liked the hammer that GEM provided to coasts.

    Thanks. I was not aware of this. I guess I have always had the game with the patches or never noticed it before.
     
  8. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Speaking from experience in the multiplayer world:

    - The Great Lighthouse. Depending on the map, it is often hands-down the most powerful wonder in the game. Some label it as overpowered. On many maps (including continental and lakes ones, not just archipelago), getting this one wonder can pretty much single handedly power an economy all the way through to the Industrial Age.

    - Mausoleum of Mausollus. Incredibly powerful on its own, especially so if you can combine it with the Taj Mahal. Just one or two well-timed Golden Ages with this wonder can often seal a close game in your favour, or propel you ridiculously far into the lead in a non-close game.

    - Apostolic Palace. Not for the diplomatic stuff or even the voting stuff, I pretty much completely ignore that. For the hammers! Especially on larger maps, the amount of bonus hammers you can pull out of thin air from this wonder can be incredible. In multiplayer it's often even better if you found the AP religion and try to keep it to yourself, so your rivals don't get the hammer bonus that you do. If you can manage to combine it with the Spiral Minaret and University of Sankore, then you have effectively established the "religious trio" of wonders, which - if attained - can frequently seal the game for you (if it wasn't sealed already).

    Others: Stonehenge is quite nice (and I'm prone to building it in a lot of my games), but it's hardly necessary nor powerful on the same level as the wonders listed above. The Oracle can be pretty nice if you're Industrious and net Metal Casting with it, though it's not as game changing as the wonders listed above. The Pyramids and Great Library are also very nice to get, of course, but again I don't think I'd classify them on the same level as the wonders above. (Exception: The Pyramids can be a lifesaver in an isolated or happiness-deprived start.) The Statue of Liberty can be great as well, but it's map dependent and usually it's the icing on the cake to a game already won.
     
  9. Cheps

    Cheps Chieftain

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    About the Statue of Liberty, I always find it way too expensive. I mean, even with copper it's depressing to build it. Also by the time I could get it, I'm usually generating GPs from a single GP farm (and possibly another city with several wonders) so most GPPs are lost. But then I prefer financial leaders over philosophical ones so maybe it's just me ;)
     
  10. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    Great Lighthouse for Archipelago maps.

    Apostolic Palace for everything else. I don't try to get the cheese win, but the hammers are indeed nice. Also, if you use it diplomatically it's quite powerful. You can stop wars you don't want or start a dogpile without bribing. It's an often misused wonder, so people find themselves getting cities demanded or wars being stopped at the wrong time. My only recommendation is, you nearly have to have the AP religion as your state religion or it's going to be a real pain. It's also important for denial. If the wrong AI builds it it can cost you the game when you get dogpiled.
     
  11. gorf37

    gorf37 Warlord

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    Having read a lot of bickering on the forum of late, your post is a breath of fresh air. Hats off to you S.Bernbaum!:hatsoff:
     
  12. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    For the record, the "demanding" benefit of the AP isn't particularly powerful - especially in multiplayer - due to the fact that anyone (no matter how few votes in the AP) can stop any resolution by voting "Never". And actually, the fewer votes you have, the less the resulting unhappiness affects you - yet you still retain permanent veto power unless you lose the city with the AP religion. So while the stronger "demand" options in the AP (war/peace/flip city) can sometimes be successful against the AI, they usually aren't very useful in multiplayer. Just thought I'd clarify that's why the diplomatic side of the AP doesn't particularly interest me most of the time. :)
     
  13. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    It's true, I do approach the AP from a Single Player style. I think I need to clarify - in using the AP you only want to have a few cities in the AP religion (so defying doesn't hurt as badly) or spread it everywhere and adopt it as the State Religion. The situation I was referring to was having the AP in about half of your cities and then not being in the AP religion. At that point, the unhappiness does hurt. It's true that if you only have the religion in a few small cities, you can defy.

    IIRC if you aren't a "Full Member" you can't demand a city from the AI (although they can demand yours). I normally try to spread and adopt the AP religion if it doesn't kill my diplo. That way the demand never hurts you.
     
  14. nfw

    nfw King

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    At that stage I usually have at least 1 engineer sitting around, so I'd rush SoL if I were on a large continent.
     
  15. Skallagrimson

    Skallagrimson Deity

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    My wonder priorities tend to be:
    1. Oracle and Taj Mahal
    2. Any that generate Engineer GPPs are "nice to have" (as they enhance the chances of founding Mining inc. later on). Those queue up in the National Epic city to multiply the Eng GPPs.
    3. All others are really just there for the failgold. With some I'll queue it up in a low-hammers city to make sure it won't oops-build.
     
  16. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    I think there are only 3 wonders whose benefits you cannot capture: Hanging Gardens, Oracle and Taj Mahal.

    Thus, if you absolutely have to build a wonder at a level that you are struggling to dominate, these three would be on the top of my list. However, since, I don't build wonders when I am struggling to dominate... :p
     
  17. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    On Pangea, SoL is nice and is Three Gorges, but they do some really late.
    What is this late-game power of parthenon you speak of?
     
  18. Ormylar

    Ormylar Chieftain

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    Pyramids is one of my favourite wonders. I really like Representation for the early game if I'm playing small maps or Universal Suffrage once I have several towns developed.

    I also like Shwedagon Paya for free religion civic as then civs won't be angry at me for not having their religion (although I also loose bonuses with same civ/religion) plus the other civs just love to send missionaries to my cities so more happiness for me. :)
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I bet if you spread it into people's capitols and started running "return city" or "declare war" resolutions that people would start getting annoyed, especially because you would still have enough votes to give them the :mad: for defying it :p. Not a tremendous thing compared to the hammers but fun against a friend with whom relations have turned sour...
     
  20. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    I actually did this in a recent game, slightly indirectly (he had spread my religion around mostly of his own accord). It was kind of fun for me and was a minor annoyance for him. But that's all it was - a minor annoyance. Nothing game changing. Mind you, in that game my target had quite a few friendly neighbours, so he could always get extra resources from them to compensate for the lost happiness. Of course it'd be more painful if you were stuck with an already low happiness cap then got hit with AP "resolution denial" unhappiness. Still, not a huge effect in most situations/maps.
     

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