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[BNW] Most Ideal Situation for Temple of Artemis?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Athenaeum, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Athenaeum

    Athenaeum Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
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    Temple of Artemis - Is it better to build this when you have a tall/Tradition empire that already has a lot of food, such as one located on an endless river system? Or is it better to build in empires where you have small cities with not much food, to compensate for the lack of food?

    Mathematically, the wonder increases growth rate more in taller cities, but is less needed there.

    In fact, this question seems to be part of a broader dilemna where I often wonder if it's better to cover up a weakness or boost a pre-existing strength. I've had this question a lot in other situations.

    In a multiplayer game I played a few months ago, I was located on an insane, flat river system and build Temple of Artemis rather early. I had 3 insanely tall Tradition cities and far more aggregate population than everyone else at the end. From the start, I knew that if I got that wonder, combined with my high growth land, that I would pretty much be set for the game as long as I had enough hammers to defend in case of attack.

    But I wonder if I obtained more benefit from that situation than say, one where I had low-growth lands.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Equilin

    Equilin Prince

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    IMO You'd need at least decent food (e.g. can grow at a reasonable pace throughout the game) in all cities, since it is percent based. If the wide empire can afford those food in all of their cities then it should be better, but effect pays off earlier in tall, small empires (cuz workers don't need to walk far, production can be invested in food&science buildings, less units needed to defend) and earlier usually means better.
     
  3. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    4 Hexes from FoY
    you should never settle cities like this, except an a very wide empire where the location is more important than growth.
     
  4. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    Jul 11, 2008
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    Any empire will benefit from it but it's just not possible to expand quickly AND build lots of early wonders. It's also not nearly as important to a wide empire. If you play on low difficulty, like King and under, you can just do everything - have the most cities, most wonders, biggest military, best culture, etc. When you play on high difficulty you must make hard decisions. You can sprawl wide with lots of cities, but you won't build wonders and you'll fall behind in science, OR, you can wonderspam and keep up in science, but be dwarfed by other empires in land area, etc. If you want to become a good player who can win on high difficulty you need to stop trying to do everything at once. The Temple of Artemis is probably the most expensive wonder in the game, relatively speaking, as it comes so early. This is fair since it is arguably the most powerful wonder in the game, or at least a contender for first place. You should recognize that building it is extremely expensive and risky and will come at great cost, thus it is something that should only be done in particular situations. On Deity, I've seen the AI build it by turn 29, and it often goes before turn 40. Even on immortal you're going to want to aim to have it done by T40 at the latest, preferably T35 or an AI might snatch it from you. If you fail building the ToA it is such a massive failure you essentially lose the game. You really need to ask yourself when it's worth it.

    If I were playing Egypt or if I were playing as India and started with tons of forest for chopping - those are situations when I might try to build it. I'd never try to build it when going for a wide empire. The only exception would be some extremely bizarre scenario where I finish Liberty, get my GE, and no one has built it yet.
     

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