Discussion in 'World History' started by Huayna Capac357, Nov 7, 2007.
What's the Most Important African Civ?
I'd have to say the Ethiopians. They have a history from the beginning of humans to King Solomon and Bilqis to Labilela up to Haile Selassie and the Italians. They made many advances not found in other parts of Africa, and are still running now. The Egyptians and Carthaginians are so overrated .
You know that your answering by yourself, right?
If you want a fair poll you need to say except Egypt because otherwise there's no competition.
Though I'm not a huge fan of Egypt, it's by far the most "important" (of course it depends on how you define important) of those you have in the poll.
He's got a point. If Egypt had not been on there I would have certainly voted for Mali. Egypt (as well as Carthage, actually) was far more influenced by the Mediterranean than Africa itself, with the exception of the various times Nubia attacked it or controlled it.
I say Morocco. First university in the world is there. Lots of technological innovations etc and Ibn Batutta. W/o Morocco and the Moors that came from here Europe wouldn't have had things like the windmill.
r u sure ?
I always thought the Nalanda University was among the first. Or maybe some chinese confucian smthing ...
As for the OP - you should have omited Egypt from your poll.
Why? Egypt is in Africa.
Even in Civilization 3, the Egyptians were considered a "Medieteranean" civ.
As in continually operated to the present.
Because it is obvious that it's the most important one. I would've really like to read arguments in favour of the other civs for the 2nd most important one. Alas, this thread will require no argumenting whatsoever.
Egypt, Carthage, Numidia, Mali, Songhi, Ghana, Abyssina, Zanzibar, Nubia, Congo Kingdom, Kingdom of Benin, Sokoto, Morroco, Almovarids, Almohads, Fatamids,
far too many to choose just one.
Egypt, with the civilisations of West Africa (eg. Almoravids, Mali, Benin, etc) close second.
It's not obvious to me. If you can explain what makes Egypt so "obviously" more important than Ethiopia or Mali I'll be very interested to hear it...
I'm not sure what the OP meant by "important", but this was my reasoning.
I guess i thought what would happen if Egypt the civ was radicaly different from what it was. This was the first thought that came to mind:
What if instead of them, some hippie civ would not put the jews into slavery -> no more Moses leading the jews to Israel -> no more christianity -> no more islam -> etc.
But probably because it has a long (known) history - we can have these kinds of chaos theory effects.
However Egypt (the land) is very hospitable, so if Egypt (the civ) were not living there, then some other would just be in their place.
It would be intresting to think what would it be like if the land was a barren desert w/o the Nile. That was the second thing that crossed my mind. If some other civ would be in it's place then it would be the one with large "importance" instead of the egypteans. So i thought, what if there could be no important civs there ...
Those were my first thoughts i guess.
I should mention that knowing little about the others' history didn't help them ... (not that i know much about egyptean history anyway)
Egypt is (as far as we know) one of the oldest civilisations and have wide reaching influence over the rest of the world, especially "western" and Islamic civilisations. Mali or Ethiopia did not have that kind of influence, although they are nevertheless very important to history.
On the other hand, the Ethiopian civilisation lasted for longer than the Egyptian one did (into modern times). Don't forget, also, that there was a time when Ethiopia had the largest merchant fleet on the planet, and traded all down the African east coast and across the Indian Ocean.
It's true that Ethiopia hasn't had all that much influence upon other civilisations, but then, I'm not convinced that Egypt did so either; it seems to me that its influence was mostly as a sort of ideal. For example, it was fashionable in late antiquity to attribute philosophical or religious ideas to mythical ancient Egyptian sages, to make them seem older and supposedly therefore better. Take the Hermetic corpus, for example. Now that's influence of a sort, I suppose, but not a very full-blooded sort.
As for Moses, that's a poor example, given that no-one knows whether the story of the Exodus is true or not. You can't base a claim like this upon uncertain mythology. You might as well say that Ethiopia is more important because Solomon gave them the Ark of the Covenant.
I'm not necessarily saying that Ethiopia is a more important civilisation than Egypt; but I certainly dispute the claim that the matter is obvious.
As much as I agree with the need for discussion, Plotinus, it would seem the polls indicate otherwise. Egypt is winning by a considerable margin (26 votes at the moment).
Well yea - Egypt always held a fascinating aura during lots of moments in history. Some things may have been distorted.
IIRC there was proof that the Exodus happend. Obviously not in the SF way it is described in the Bible. I mean i recall from some documentary that there was proof that a large number of jews left Egypt toward the east led by some dude. (but not ALL of them left - it would've been impossible)
I think it also showed the hypotheses that Moses was actually a priest of Osiris or smthing - or was it initiated in the Mysteries of Osiris/Isis ? I don't remember that one. They did mention the evidence was not nearly conlusive on this.
Well yea - but you have to admit, it would've been a FAR more intresting discussion if Egypt was out of the question in the first place. That's kinda what i was trying to point out.
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