Most influential Nation in history?

[Steph]

Stealing? I can talk to you about a country that is good at stealing!
Cough Chambery, cough Corsica, cough Annecy, cough Nizza.

Corsica: bought
Chambery, Annecy, part of Savoy, joined France after a plebiscite.

If you prefer, I can say the Italians got their part by conquering it from the Ottomans.

Fact: before it was Ottoman. War with Italy. After it's Italian.

Of course the Italian didn't went in Turkey, took Cyrenaica that was lying there, and run for North Africa with their prize!

 

[Sofista]

This raises the question of how did France gain her empire: were the natives who invited you? Was there a plebiscite? Did Indochina and Algeria just vote you out of office and you left with a bow and a flourish?

BEcause, you know, we "steal", you gracefully lead les sauvages to the path of civilization.

 

[Steph]

It wasn't supposed to. I'm just saying how France's colonies were a lot like Antarctica. Contemporarily useless.

I was not aware that Antarctica had so much sand
But anyway, you are clearly not trying to see this issue with a broad enough mind, and think strategically on the long run.
With all that sand available, France was able to import billions of tons back to France to improve our beaches.
After WWII, we increased the import, to fill in all the holes the Germans, the Americans, and the English had dug into our beaches, especially in Normandy, to repair our nice neaches.

This over exploitation of Saharian sand was part of the plot that allowed France to become the first touristic destination in the World.

 

[Steph]

This aises the question of how did France gain her empire: were the natives whi invited you? Was there a plebiscite? Did Indochina and Algeria just vote you out of office and you left with a bow and a flourish?
BEcause, you know, we "steal", you gracefully lead les sauvages to the path of civilization.

Well, I never said France was invited! We "steal directly" to the Natives, while the Italian got it from the Ottomans who got it earlier.

Well, it's a stupid debate anyway, because in history most of the lands that were conquered were already conquered by others before.

 

[Rossiya]

I was not aware that Antarctica had so much sand
But anyway, you are clearly not trying to see this issue with a broad enough mind, and think strategically on the long run.
With all that sand available, France was able to import billions of tons back to France to improve our beaches.
After WWII, we increased the import, to fill in all the holes the Germans, the Americans, and the English had dug into our beaches, especially in Normandy, to repair our nice neaches.

This over exploitation of Saharian sand was part of the plot that allowed France to become the first touristic destination in the World.

Are you joking? You've got to be joking.

 

[Naskra]

No joke, the French appreciation of the strategic importance of sand has deep roots.
Colbert had a plan to have Jesuits use Hurons to exploit the sand deposits of Quebec; Napoleon offered a prize of 50,000 livres to the man who could develop a practical artificial sand; and, of course, the principal charge against Capt. Dreyfuss was "felonious sand-hoarding".

"Pas de sand, pas de quenelle" , or something -- Brillat-Savarin, or Chateaubriand, or somefrenchbody.

 

[Steph]

Are you joking? You've got to be joking.

Omaha beach, during the normandy landing, partly destroyed by explosion, tank tracks, etc.


After it has been rebuilt clean from sand imported from Sahara
*

And you can see here that with 75 millions tourists a year, France is first, Spain being far behind with only 55 millions, followed by the USA with 49 millions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_Rankings

Funilly, China is 4th

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I think it was clear that France has so many tourists becuase most are obliged topass through your beloved but horsehockye and surrender country to finally arrive to Spain the final destiny, as the Income from foreign tourists in that very article shows.

 

[Rossiya]

Omaha beach, during the normandy landing, partly destroyed by explosion, tank tracks, etc.


After it has been rebuilt clean from sand imported from Sahara
*

And you can see here that with 75 millions tourists a year, France is first, Spain being far behind with only 55 millions, followed by the USA with 49 millions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_Rankings

Funilly, China is 4th

So you're not joking...

So do you mean to say that the sole use for French North Africa was sand???

Where everybody else was using rubber to make pneumatic tyres, oil to make fuel, aluminium to make light armour, France was using its colonies to nourish its beaches with First Class Algerian sand.

 

[Rossiya]

I think it was clear that France has so many tourists becuase most are obliged topass through your beloved but horsehockye and surrender country to finally arrive to Spain the final destiny, as the Income from foreign tourists in that very article shows.

As James May from Top Gear puts it;

"France is a country you have to drive through to get to Italy. That's all it's for."

 

[Steph]

So you're not joking...
So do you mean to say that the sole use for French North Africa was sand???

It wasn't the sole purpose. French colonies was not ONLY desert.
And we used Sahara for nuclear testing.

 

[aronnax]

It wasn't the sole purpose. French colonies was not ONLY desert.
And we used Sahara for nuclear testing.

So, the colonies were for importing sand, and blowing a whole lot of sand.
Well the Spanish are a crazy lot then invading the Aztec for gold instead of taking North African Sand. And the British too, what are the use of plantations in India when you can a thousand miles of nothingness to blow up with radioactive rockets.


Did they use it for anything else?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Glass bottles for wine, obviously.

 

[Steph]

Glass bottles for wine, obviously.

Yes, and nuke in Sahara with sand produces a lot of glass.
We just have to wait a few hundred years for radioactivity to disappear so we can use it.

 

[aronnax]

Okay so aside from French Morroco, Urban Algeria and the tropical Parts of the French North Africa. It is a pile of useless radioactive sand.....


At least France fared better in Indochina. I really like the Impressionism Art left by the French in Vietnam.

 

[aelf]

Okay so aside from French Morroco, Urban Algeria and the tropical Parts of the French North Africa. It is a pile of useless radioactive sand.....

You forgot Madagascar. Anyway, if I were you, I'd have gone and read up for a year before posting in this forum again, just so that I wouldn't be traumatised for life

Seriously, a lot of British land was useless, disease-ridden jungle. What does that prove?

 

[aronnax]

You forgot Madagascar. Anyway, if I were you, I'd have gone and read up for a year before posting in this forum again, just so that I wouldn't be traumatised for life

Seriously, a lot of British land was useless, disease-ridden jungle. What does that prove?

Okay I forgot Madagascar, but i really think Madagascar was much better off without French Influence. Before being colonise, it was quite open to new ideas and concept by outside world and had very liberale reforms under the merina Monarchy which united Madagascar. In fact it was the British who help protect and finace Madagascar in exchange for missionary efforts and banned slavery. Except for one slighty mad queen, Madagascar was quite well off. I am not sure what the French did to make it better or worse . But I know that invading it and capturing its capital and exiling a decent royal family and goverment did not do a country a thing.

You see how much of the French Empire is desert compared to the British disease-ridden jungle





The dersert in French lands are like a good 70 - 80%
while for the British only are good 40%-50%

But who am I to judge, Steph, you decide

 

[biggamer132]

Personally, I think all of you colonizing nations should issue apologies for the enslavement and mass exploitation of vast human populations, but hey, who cares about the Third World when you could just argue about French beaches?

 

[Steph]

1- Colonization did not brought only bad effects

In 1960, France had build in Africa 2000 health center, 600 maternity, 40 hospitals, 18 000 km of railroads, 215 000 km of tracks usuable all year round, 50 000 km of paved roads, 63 ports and 196 aerodromes.

2 millions children were schooled in French colonies. In Black Africa, there was 16 000 primary school, 350 secondary school and college.

In 1960, 96% of the teachers were African (meaning that France formed native teachers, and not only send French one).

Regading health, many diseases were fought with success by the colonial power, and the child mortality decresed stringly during colonial time.

2- It was necessarily beneficial for the colonial power.

A few companies became rich thanks to colonialism, but the invenstement of France in Africa, to build infrastructure, develop agriculture, cost more than the benefits of the colonies. The global deficit for French colonialism in Africa is estimated to 70 billions Gold-Franc (1913), that's 3 times what France got with the Marshal plan to make a comparison.

 

[Rossiya]

1- Colonization did not brought only bad effects

In 1960, France had build in Africa 2000 health center, 600 maternity, 40 hospitals, 18 000 km of railroads, 215 000 km of tracks usuable all year round, 50 000 km of paved roads, 63 ports and 196 aerodromes.

2 millions children were schooled in French colonies. In Black Africa, there was 16 000 primary school, 350 secondary school and college.

In 1960, 96% of the teachers were African (meaning that France formed native teachers, and not only send French one).

Regading health, many diseases were fought with success by the colonial power, and the child mortality decresed stringly during colonial time.

2- It was necessarily beneficial for the colonial power.

A few companies became rich thanks to colonialism, but the invenstement of France in Africa, to build infrastructure, develop agriculture, cost more than the benefits of the colonies. The global deficit for French colonialism in Africa is estimated to 70 billions Gold-Franc (1913), that's 3 times what France got with the Marshal plan to make a comparison.

...and now many Africans live in France itself...