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Most OP building - Walls

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Pistol90, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

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    You don't need GDRs and nukes at all though, Bombers and fast cavalry type units are extremely efficient and come online a lot earlier.
    Usually I get myself 2 or 3 bombers and a token force of cavalry type units, and I can easily take a city every 1-2 turns from that point on.
    It's so ridiculously easy compared to how it is before I get bomber (or balloon) tech, it's almost like night and day.
    That being said, bombers should also be nerfed if they ever reduce the wall strength, as clearly the problem lies equally in how fast bombers can flatten any city defenses once you get them.

    I disagree that nerf would hamper my enjoyment.
    I already use the "stupidwalls" mod that reduces wall health by 50%, and it somewhat rekindled my interest in the game after I burned out from the repetitiveness before christmas.
    If the walls were nerfed even further, that would be a joyful day for me personally.
     
  2. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    With regard to the problem of the AI being almost completely unable to deal with walls I agree.

    The US national anthem is about the successful defence of walls in the modern era, even if not an overall victory per se.

    A few years before the Great siege of Gibraltar demonstrated that, in the right conditions, a couple of hundred yards of wall could see off 15/1 odds and a quarter of a million cannonballs.

    In WWI the bloodbath around the forts at Verdun was so great that, in WWII, no attempt was made on the maginot line or the swiss defences.
     
  3. Time Tested

    Time Tested Chieftain

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    I think walls are a sufficient challenge for a human player to overcome. The problem is that they are an impossible challenge for the AI to overcome.

    As a result, I feel little to no threat/danger from the AI to me or other AI.
     
  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Those were just examples. It's obviously not just those 2 civs But whatever. It doesn't really matter what counter-example I post anyways. Also, as expected you completely ignored my points about weak catapults and strong crossbows, so why should I even bother? May as well just type random words in the middle of my posts.

    I blame players, because I've seen other players disprove this concept of a "meta"; even a certain player that only views mass conquest as the only viable way to play can find many different methods.

    If you think a certain way of playing is the best, then you will play the same way, with the same result. Surprised pikachu face?

    Continents and Pangaea are just domination maps. I was referring more to fractal or shuffle maps where you have no idea what you'll get and have to actively explore. Although to be fair, it's slightly ruined that some are still just Pangaea.

    Of course, this would all be a non-issue if war wasn't so profitable (no real penalties to taking cities) and thus not attacking feels like gimping oneself. But they can't do that, because the moment they added any roadbump to conquest like loyalty or grievances, they get a bunch of complaints from players already. So yea I blame players being so impatient that they can't stay the 20% of the time that you can't roll your face over the AI.


    *Shrugs* I bought BNW and Civ 6 together. Civ 5 is alright, but to me, it's not even a civ game; more like Sim City with aspects of Civ. The idea that "tall" even exists is an insult and we have like an entire generation of civers who think 10 cities is wide. After R&F, I played 6 exclusively.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  5. Oldlamehand

    Oldlamehand Chieftain

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    This is a good point. In Civilization 6, I often see that one AI opponent eliminates another AI opponent in ancient rush, but in later stages AI rarely gains any town through military conquest.

    In Civilization 4, I often had to worry that some AI would conquer its neighbors and become too strong. But this does not happen in civilization 6. AI declares war on its much weaker neighbor and but they gains nothing. In Civilization 4, the weaker one would often lose several cities in a few turns and become a vassal.
     
  6. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Well Civ 4's AI knew how to play the game; that's a big difference.

    Although Civ 4 had its own problems; often the times the AIs that conquered were ones that broke and don't do much of anything, making them easy targets. They would severely underexpand because they were too busy founding religions or something-- a lesson that was not learned later on.

    But there's where my experience differs from people; I usually see civs being conquered in 6 until the very late game where it just completely breaks. And that's also a problem because they cannot win regardless of advantage. The AI seems to not have any plans for later eras, or not much of one. But it's taking like 5 years to see them use aircraft at all...
     
  7. Pistol90

    Pistol90 Prince

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    OK, until WW1 and WW2 ... but those examples you gave are not walls ... Verdun or Maginot lines were not walls, those are heavily fortified defenders (we have that in Civ, you fortify your unit on top of hill in woods and it gets stronger defense).

    In WW1 and WW2 defending city on city walls was suicidal, artillery would blow you to pieces .... with modern artillery, city walls became totally useless.
     
  8. civac

    civac Warlord

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    For a primarily single player game the rules should be crafted to help the AI to some extent. However, if the AI is completely inept in an area the countervailing shifts to help it become too extreme and damage the game. The walls appear to be an example for that. Since the AI cannot fight at all they made city walls which ensure that they can hold their territory. The problem here is how static the entire game becomes and that battles revolve around these walls not the tactical hex warfare that is supposedly one of Civ6's great strengths. What I have seen of SP combat in Civ6 definitely has less depth than Civ4's stack warfare. Of course, this could be an erroneous impression due to sample size.
     

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