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Most OP civilzation?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by APCY, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

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    Civs can be stronger than others without disrupting balance. A coin with a 52% chance of landing on heads isn't perfectly fair, but it's pretty close, relatively speaking. The civs are the same way: some are stronger, but not to the extent that they overpower the others.
     
  2. lokithepunishr

    lokithepunishr Warlord

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    I understand what you are saying but I don't usually chuck huge amounts of gold at CS, espescially in early game. Completing a quest for a CS as Siam gives you essentially the same bonus as it does for Greece, the difference comes in when Siam gets it sooner.

    If you do the maths it works out better for Greece (when gifting gold), but if you considder the fact of earlier bonuses it generally works out better for Siam. Getting 45 culture over 45 turns is less effective than getting 45 culture over 30 turns (a poor, unrealistic example I know, I'm too lazy to crunch numbers right now)

    If you remember the Greece vs Siam thread from a month or 2 ago you'll see the advantage of Siam.

    Not to mention, Siam gets a good UB whereas Greece only has 2 relatively OK UUs.

    I'm not saying Greece is weak, by all accounts it is a good civ, mid-top tier, but I'm just saying that it isn't as good as Siam at what it should be doing
     
  3. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Greece's UA kind of overrides Siam's. Greece will have more allies and friends, and if both are in the game Greece will take all of Siam's allies. Also the AI Greece dominates face.
     
  4. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Except in this case the coin has a 95% chance of Poland, and a 5% chance of Denmark.
     
  5. lokithepunishr

    lokithepunishr Warlord

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    Wait a second, are we talking about AI or Human players as these civs? Siam human > Greece human, however Greece AI > Siam AI, I'm talking about it from a human perspective.

    I can't agree with with these Greece > Siam accounts, you all seem to forget the fact that snowballs >>
     
  6. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

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    7 policies over ~300 turns does not break a game.
     
  7. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    How about a coin that is 100% heads because you die to Attila every time since horse archers are massively OP. People who think no civ is OP has no idea how to use the civs properly. Spamming horse archers before composite tech is possible to research is instant win.

    Camels/keshiek are free win as well due to being able to shoot and move away. They are basically untouchable.

    Poland getting free policies is nothing compared to being steam rolled by an unbeatable unit.
     
  8. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

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    If Attila is beating you 100% of the time in early game, then you just need to adjust your tactics. The difference between a Horse Archer and a Chariot Archer is 1 melee strength, not ending movement in rough terrain, and not requiring horses. If you can't beat Horse Archers, you can't beat Chariot Archers, and no one is complaining about Chariot Archer rushes.

    As for being a human player, having a strong UU just doesn't have that insta-win effect. On a duel map or a small pangea, maybe. However, you can't conquer 7 civs with just Horse Archers/ Keshiks/Camel Archers and expect to instantly win 100% of the time on an appropriate difficulty.
     
  9. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Ok?

    Poland is a zillion times stronger than Denmark. The game needs to be better balanced.
     
  10. adwcta

    adwcta King

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    You could just lower the bonus... I mean, that would be the obvious thing to do if you don't want to rehaul the science system. 25% bonus instead of 50% for Babs... +1 instead of +2 for Korea.
     
  11. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

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    There is room for improvement, and I think that's more in making Denmark more enticing than anything else. However, there are 43 civs in the game. Keeping 43 factions in line with each other isn't a simple matter, so some are certainly going to be stronger than others.

    I would absolutely prefer Denmark and Poland be more even, but the game isn't at a point where I would only ever play Poland or never play Denmark. My point about balance is that you aren't significantly handicapping yourself by picking a weaker civ. It makes the game a little harder, yes, but it's not the same as, say, upping the difficulty level.
     
  12. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    I wonder if Poland on Deity is actually harder than Denmark on Immortal...

    Anyway, the civs need to be more balanced. The gap between the strongest and weakest is incredibly huge on Deity.
     
  13. pezit

    pezit Chieftain

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    I don't think civ is a game that needs perfect balance, or should even strive for it. Some civs are way over the top though like arabia, and denmark is so weak and have absolutely no flavor that it really needs a buff.
     
  14. matiss00

    matiss00 Chieftain

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    Lets sop looking at vanilla, g&k, bnw and dlcs, but instead at mods
    Latvia is the most OP civ if you play it (20% production headstart for every religious building, uu, tat is even stronger than the musketman)
     
  15. Learner

    Learner Chieftain

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    In my opinion, The Zulus and Poland are the two most OP civilizations in the game. Babylon and Korea come close.

    I'm not familiar with multiplayer, but i'd guess that Shoshone is OP in those games.
     
  16. Qbone

    Qbone Chieftain

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    Why would we care if a mod is OP or not? A mod is not an official release by the team who developped the game, nor was it balanced by them. It is not part of the game "as packaged", if you know what I mean, and if you don't enjoy a mod, you can simply remove it and keep playing the game as is.

    The case is different for official releases, though, as they were created by a team of people paid to do such, and were balanced considering all the other civilizations to attempt to make them unique. Now, I love mods, and there's great mods out there, and some modders that I personally believe have a great understand in Balancing, but you cannot compare a mod to a "real" civ.


    Back to the topic: I prefer seeing the Tier list as a Versatility list. When your plan of "Conquering everyone" with the Zulus doesn't work, you don't have much of an alternative, while Poland's "Free Social Policy" is neutral, versatile, adaptive to your unique situation, and works in any setting. You don't need City-States, you don't need a specific Wonder, you don't need a terrain, you don't need a particular type of Victory, it just works no matter the variables. Since this is a game with variables, though, every Civ has moments where it can shine, even if it is a rare case, like Spain or Danemark. To balance out the Civs would mean to remove variables, or to give more "neutral" bonusses to all Civs, without favouring any particular type of victory in general. I don't think this is the way to go, though. After all, as we all know, Civilisation rise and fall for various reasons through History, and this is why no one nation rules the world eternally.
     
  17. matiss00

    matiss00 Chieftain

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    You know why noone rules over the world. Because of history:
    romans,
    Mongolians,
    persians,
    england,
    Etc
     
  18. Dgodus

    Dgodus Chieftain

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    Spain can be seriously OP once the policies, religious bonus', tenants, world wonders, and world congress pile up.

    I've got in my current game (huge fractal and marathon speed)
    Mt Fuji 4gold 16culture 14 faith
    Sri Prada 4food 10culture 16faith 4happy
    Uluru 4food 10culture 20faith
    Grand Mesa 4hammers 6gold 10culture 8faith
    Mt Sinai 10culture 24faith
    Mt Kailash 10culture 20faith 4happy
    Mt Kilimanjaro 6food 14culture 8faith (promo)

    Conquistadors made the off continent wonders extremely easy to settle. The abundance of faith made it super easy to set up defensive units (holy warriors)

    Interfaith dialogue and cheap missionaries (mandate from heaven, holy order, and the great mosque) provide loads of easy beakers.

    All the culture, faith, and research has me winning most of the CS quests (not to mention all the extra military units stomping the barb quests), with the patronage policies I have the most allies (loads of extra research with it) and by far control the world congress.

    Nobody can touch me militarily (loads of faith and holy warriors).

    It's just straight up abusive. The only difficulty I've got is gold (still positive but no where near where I'd like it as I've got a huge military). And being that I won't denounce others I've been chained denounced myself (not that it really matters).
     
  19. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Babylon and Korea would still get to every tech faster than every other civ. As long as getting to the next tech is the most important thing in the game civs with science bonuses will be superior to those without.
     
  20. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    What about the mayans? Aren't the mayans a bit op? Doesn't anyone know who's op?
     

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