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Most poorly designed Civ?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by siredgar, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Venger

    Venger Give it a tumble, sport

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    783
    Something needs to happen to them, they are an anachronism in gameplay - even if I ignore that Longbowmen have a range farther than a Gatling Gun - three fold mind you - that I can point blank melee them in a forest with a Legion and get at best standoff odds is a complete joke. Combat strength of bow units is extremely iffy, and a unit that can hit me twice before I can melee them, then be at parity on melee? Lame. If I get powerful melee (legion) or cavalry in close contact bow units should rout.
     
  2. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    Dec 15, 2012
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    563
    LB's are real bad and OP especially if their army has a spotter. Yeah, why do Gatling work the way they do if they take so much damage just to get in position? To a degree even machine gun units suffer from it. I guess the creators meant for gatlings and machine guns to be used inside cities. Regardless, longbows are just stupid. They are kind of like early era artillery, totally baseless power. AND the same civ also gets the improved Frigate. Crazy.
     
  3. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

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    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Right, but England is designed to totally wreck the Renaissance/Early Industrial era... Just like in real life. Sure, ideally they would have a redcoat unit, but since they have to survive until Early industrial, they needed a dope Crossbow unit. Is longbow overpowered? Maybe. Is England poorly designed? No chance.
     
  4. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

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    Jun 3, 2012
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    797
    When it comes to poorly designed civs, look no further then Byzanthium. All the other civs have UU's, UI's, UB's and UA's that at least work together OR make them very strong. Byzanthium...not so much. There is no synergy at all between her units and the UA, none of them really shine anywhere and on higher difficulties her UA might as well say "HA HA". It's just a mess.
     
  5. Antiphon

    Antiphon Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Germany
    India hands down. It's not so much how great or bad their UA is, it's more that it's like the opposite of what I would expect of India in a game. The UA of India begs you to a tall empire build; few, big cities. Now i acknowledge there are many "tall" (populous) cities in modern India, modern India is a friggin' SUBCONTINENT covering a large land area. Holland would deserve a UA like that (being allowed vassal cities to reflect the historic trade empire), but India is a huge nation with a large rural population. Plus, with current AI, even Gandhi becomes way too often a warmonger, in comparison to earlier games. He feels way more like Gandhi 2 in this game!
     
  6. Cissnei

    Cissnei Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
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    298
    I don't know why no one mentions Spain~ Their unique ability is overpowered on small maps and useless on bigger maps. Their unique units are nothing special...
     
  7. Dr. D

    Dr. D Warlord

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    Dec 6, 2012
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    258
    LOL! No more Mr. Passive Resistance...
     
  8. spyroware

    spyroware Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    London, UK, EU
    I agree that the Byzantine UA is annoyingly weak.

    It should help you get a religion faster in some way like the Celtic UA. The game tries to nudge towards that path by desert/tundra starts which kind of sucks since a) the AI loves Petra and you will have to tech/rush it if you have a desert capital (no combo with religion) b) no one would pick the faith on unimproved tundra belief :crazyeye:

    Also you should be able to choose beliefs that are already taken. The race for religion is all about the good beliefs and if you're supposed to be the religious Civ and you're a tad bit late in the race then what? Getting to pick an extra lame belief barely makes your religion on par with the good religions.
     
  9. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

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    Sep 10, 2012
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    Byz actually doesn't have any start bias. Having a desert start bias would probably change a lot of people's minds about the civ (but be totally historically inaccurate).
     
  10. teddybroosevelt

    teddybroosevelt Chieftain

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    Jun 5, 2012
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    45
    (1) - the big complaint about America is that you have to wait too long to get to their interesting stuff, and your solution is to delay that further? I've always the crazy idea that America should get a Great Person UU — a replacement for the Great Merchant or maybe Great Engineer — to reflect its becoming a huge economic/industrial power. Maybe call it the "Industrialist" ("Robber Baron" might be too politically loaded :)). no idea what exactly it would do but it's a thought.
    (2) - it seems as if as the developers wanted to avoid anything USSR-related (which is too bad, because the Katyusha Rocket would make an awesome UU). I agree that the Krepost isn't great, even though it's a neat idea based on the potential synergy with Russia's UA and how it's reasonably historically accurate. Maybe a bath house as a happiness building?
    (3) - happens too late in the game. plus, Korea already gets such a huge science boost from its UA and has two fairly interesting UU's, so I think we can leave them be.
    (4) - c'mon, the Longbowman rules.

    also, I agree with those that say the Byzantines are oddly-designed. and did we ever find out why Darius is the Persian leader, even though his opening leader text seems to be more about Cyrus?
     
  11. Jerman

    Jerman Would you like a Trade Agreement?

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    423
    Yes and 2 new countries exist in its play north and south Korea.
     
  12. Cajamarca

    Cajamarca Chieftain

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    Korea should get -50% Science when researching Advanced Ballistics.
     
  13. Cajamarca

    Cajamarca Chieftain

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    But seriously, folks... (ba-dum-tish)




    I think, as a consolation prize, Byzantium should receive the Founder benefit of whatever religion is the majority in their capital, if they don't get to found their own.
     
  14. Smokeybear

    Smokeybear Emperor

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    If you pick Byzantium, and aren't good enough to focus on and get a religion, dang... dunno what to say. Don't play Byzantium. Seriously...
     
  15. Cajamarca

    Cajamarca Chieftain

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    Have you played Deity? Not even won, but just played deity? It's not a question of good, its a question of which ruins you pop.

    But that's somewhat beside the point. The point is, if you focus on getting a religion, those unique units never get used. You have to spam settlers, shrines, temples, etc.
     
  16. Unresolved

    Unresolved King

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    Or what natural wonders are near you.
     
  17. Smokeybear

    Smokeybear Emperor

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    No, I don't play on deity. But if you can't realistically expect to focus enough on religion up there to be able to get one for Byzantium, without ruining your chances at other critical things, then yeah, I guess you just don't play them on that diff. Heh, they're sucky enough on prince, I have no idea why you'd want to even bother with them on deity. I'm not aware of any other civ that the devs have gone out of their way to make them more playable at high difficulties, than they are at normal ones, so don't hold your breath on that one.
     
  18. Cajamarca

    Cajamarca Chieftain

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    Well, mooching off another religion's founder benefits fits thematically with Byzantine history. Which was the holy city for Christianity, Constantinople or Rome? Both, really, it just depended on who you talked to.

    Later, Istanbul was home of the Ottoman sultan and the caliph, even though the holy city for Islam is in Saudi Arabia.

    It's a cosmopolitan place, is what I'm saying.
     
  19. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Oh hey, I had this idea too! In my mind it was a great merchant replacement who's trade missions would provide a large culture boost in addition to the gold.
     
  20. Carmack

    Carmack Chieftain

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    Mar 13, 2013
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    79
    Polynesia. I never role them on archipelago maps. Their unique ability is short-lived, as is their unique unit. Then there's the Maori... Honestly, does anyone even build these? In fact, I don't think I've ever seen the AI build them!

    Mongols. Think of them as Austria's evil twin. They're all about gobbling up city-states, but the Mongols are penalized for it. In almost every one of my games, Genghis Khan and Mongolia are the North Korea of the world. Everybody denounces them and it generally stems from how the AI reacts to civs attacking city-states.
     

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