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Most powerful strat

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Strategy & Tips' started by Ecofarm, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    Well, there was grig archmages... glad to see them gone.

    Balseraph druids remain a top 5 strat, for sure, with Luch and Amurite doing just about anything they like. But I found a new one. It's so strong, it should be nerfed. Enjoy it while it lasts, as it is really a pile of fun.

    1. Chalid is awesome. Not for the affinity, for the spells. Crown + pillar + heal.
    2. What goes good with an area spell that does 80%?

    I thought for a long time...
    Air elementals!

    So, I need archmages. That means arcane trait. Well, it looks like a mission for Dain. But wait.... Govanon or Alaz... Well, liches are so late and really that's all govanan really helps with and Alaz pwns. But what about philo? Well, you cant lightbulb sorcery anymore, let alone strength of will... vs. forest cottages.

    Svalt wins. Alaz + forest cottage > Govanon + philo
    And raider too.

    Tech path
    edu (cottage spam), FoL (get ancients), writing, ether (adepts)
    Adepts promote mind and can charm, you are largely protected.
    Poison (Alaz) - now you are really protected, Honor (change to Empyr), Religious law (chalid), handling (rangers)
    With Alaz and Chalid and a couple rangers (or hunters) for defense, you can run over AIs some.
    EDIT: Hightlight techs are interchangeable in order and might all come after empyr, depending on circumstances.
    Elementalism (promote adepts air), sorcery
    With air2 mages, you are now a force to be reconed with.
    lore, strength of will
    Archmages with air3 and mind3

    Army
    Chalid - 80% area damage, pillar, command 3, combat 5 (no mana promos)
    Alaz - mobility 2, blitz or ortho's axe, combat 5
    3 Archmages
    3 Rangers (for defense)
    3 Assassins
    (11 units total, with 5-15 lightning elementals after a few fights)

    Attack
    1. Chalid casts crown/pillar (sometimes hits for command kill, creating fodder)
    2. Alaz summons illusion then takes 4 kills, extra assassins take kills, illusion kills for 4 more
    3. Archs cast air3, air elementals take ~2 kills and get ~50% of creating a lightning elemental. Lightning elementals are mv2 and blitz, and permanent. They take kills.

    If there is ever a slow-down, the archs dominate. No bombard, deity AI gets walked over. I think it's better than balseraph druids.

    ---

    What's your favorite or most powerful strat?
     
  2. ophite

    ophite Chieftain

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    By the time you have Chalid, three archmages, and have researched halfway down the recon track, you've already won the game three times. Meanwhile, someone else has gotten Saverous and a handful of Drown and eaten every last one of your cities.

    -- ACS
     
  3. Yaotzin

    Yaotzin Warlord

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    My favorite strat is researching everything then making 4 of every national unit and killing everyone.

    ..Seriously, this strategy seems to rely on using buggy charm person to disable AI stacks to survive until you get your late tech killer of choice, which could be replaced with several other options. Second, you're getting adepts and poison before Empyrean? What happens when someone else beelines Chalid?
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Assuming you don't allow those that depend on modmoding, I really can't say.



    I too like Air Magic a lot, although it kinda upsets me that the lightning elementals spawned from Air Elementals' combats never have any promotions. I think that should get the same promotions (mobility and empowers ones at least) as the Air Elemental that spawns it. Their blitz currently goes to waste since the elemental isn't strong enough to win very often.



    If I can include my modmoding, I think that my current favorite depends on my new "And Now For Something Completely Different" spell. This allows any Grigori unit with the Hero promotion to revert back to an adventurer, so you switch between unit types and gather different promotions usually unavailable to adventurers. I really like War Chariots with Archmage spells, Medic 1-3, subdue animals, subdue beast, dragon slaying, courage, magic immune, Blitz, extension 1-2, Twincast, city raider 1-3, ect. It does have one major exploit associated with it; every time the adventurer upgrades to an arcane unit it gets 2 free promotions, so if you have enough gold you can get all promotions available to arcane units (mobility 1&2, extension 1&2, all the spell spheres, Twincast, combat 1-5, and heroic Strength/Defense 1&2) without leveling up or needing an extra xp. It would be foolish not to have all your adventurers be de facto Archmages while existing as other units, so they will be stronger and not take up the archmage slots. Having 2 Air elementals, lightning elementals with 2 moves and blitz, and then the caster with 6 moves and blitz clean up stacks is pretty effective.
     
  5. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

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    i know things that eco talking about them. I saw eco in MP alot.
    Yeah, Svalt with Arcane, forrest Cottages and charm.

    Saverous you say - that worth 2-3 units. 3 fodder units and its dead.
    To get armages with Svalt - mm its easy really, even saw 21-25 pop ancient forest cities with each tile being 3/1/5 ?
    The strat is powerfull really, hard to make, but if once done - its very hard to counter it. Prolly only counter is lost of tasunke chariots hitting from far away.

    The thing that after empy spells all nenemy stack will have 2 health. With 2 health Lighting elelmentals become killers, and once you made LE - its stays until it die...
    so in fact you have 5 units stor,ming and bombing with spells enemy stack, while lightings kill all. This strat can deal with 30 units stack (units of any power/strenght, yeah chalid can kill that str 4 palladin you have ) and kill such stack, even in city defence 100% in ..... 1 turn.
    This strat is rediculous, because you even need not bombard.... and you take citiy just even before you arrive to tile adjacent with it.
     
  6. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    I have hunters (hunting), charm (ether), and maybe Alaz (poison) by the time you come at me with sav and drown.

    Alaz and his illusion kill anything my fodder weaken.

    Then rangers, then Chalid, then Arches.

    I have edited the OP to reflect the flexibility regarding required defense for different circumstances.
     
  7. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    I don't have any mmod running.

    As far as blitz going to waste... did I mention Crown (for 80% damage)?

    I hardly think that:

    FoL, Empyr, (Poison, Handling, and Law - in necessary order - if you are worried about losing chalid, then tech law after empyr, noone is stealing your civ hero) constitutes researching everything.

    The arches are just icing on the cake (and cost the same as theo, which I do not get).

    To recap:

    2 tier 3 units: rangers and assassins (and alaz)
    1 hero: law
    and then eventually getting 1 tier 4 unit: archs

    Tech everything?

    Two religions? Risky perhaps.
    Poisons and handling are cheap, law is pretty cheap.
    Only arches are expensive (or national), and the army can roll without them (just substitute assassins for archs).

    I just rolled an immortal pangea small 'play now' without the arches (I didn't finish lore even). Standard just means you keep cities and get arches (and getting empyr asap).

    Now, Yaotzin, if you have a strat with one national unit, like mine (or even a strat with 2), feel free to share.
     
  8. Yaotzin

    Yaotzin Warlord

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    First, I don't really see the point of late game strategies. Most of the late game units in this mod are very powerful, and if you get them when your opponent is stuck on a lower tier, you should dominate. Yea, Chalid and arches are really powerful (probably too much so), and if you get them the games a cakewalk. The AI simply cannot deal with having all their units on 50% (or 20%..).

    Second, it's the AI. Just make Air 2 mages or something else that owns stacks and spam rangers or whatever and they can't kill you. Anything more than that is just efficiency in killing them really. If that's what you're after this is probably up there.

    If this is for humans too, I suppose you rely on hunters/assassins/rangers+forests to defend 'til the good stuff? How do you stop them pillaging all your towns?

    In short: A late game strategy that doesn't include surviving early attacks (which includes preventing getting locked down with no commerce in those lovely forests, even if you technically survive), isn't that useful.
     
  9. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    In short: you dont need the arches. You are ignoring 90% of the strat.

    Chalid and Alaz can take down cities alone (with 3 rangers defense and 3 assassins offense). I attack when I get them. Consider the strat ending there, if you must. No national units even.

    And yes, hunters/rangers, fawns, radiants, assassins, and charm do a nice job of stopping pillaging.

    Commune = Theocracy = Strength of Will = Righteousness = Malevolent

    I don't consider any of those "late strats", anyway. A late strat is something with 2 national units. One national unit is a standard strat be it druids, archs, highs, paladins, or eids. Sure, it's not an amurite or grigori beeline to arches or an elf beeline to commune, but it's hardly "tech everything".
     
  10. Demus

    Demus King

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    will this beat the sheiam spectre/wraith death mana affinity spam? 20 strenght 9 move 3 units a turn, with fear. Eater of dreams with death3 in every border city. It's powerful, but still requires you to do atleast 100 turns of extra teching because you're going in 3 routes at the same time (recon, arcane and religious). Death summon spam only requires 1.
     
  11. EverNoob

    EverNoob Prince

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    I'm thinking this might actually work really well with Einion Logos using Corlindale instead of archmages. The advantage being that you can easily bulb your way to Chalid and Corlindale is on an adjacent tech. You'd only need to go as far as Elementalism in the arcane techs.
     
  12. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    I don't think 1 air3 arcane is enough (considering that the icing on the cake is lightning elementals - and domination for those unfamiliar with bals druids). Mind mana is the best - it can make you vampiric. If my opponent has it, I need Chaos AND Law to counter. Anyway, regarding Alazkad + Chalid ftw...

    The main, early, strat (empyr + poison + religious law)

    Alazkan = 4 kills with blitz, +2-3 with illusion, for a total of 6-7 KILLS after crown+pillar from Chalid. Add to that 2-3 assassins, and Alazkan and his tech become a clear superior to Corlindale in synergy with Chalid. When Alaz combat percentage gets below 98% on his 2nd or 3rd kill, I hit with his (also blitzing) illusion until it dies, leaving a final kill for Alaz. Make sure you don't kill an object with a marksman and the strat is without disapointment.

    The only other thing I would consider is Dain, for Govanon, for cheap LICHS. But that's even later game (and just m0re lightnings) and lacks the complete and total midgame pwnrshp of Alaz + Chalid. Although, amurite assassins are pwsm on defense (occ especially).

    Spoiler :
    Can you tell I'm a fan of assassins + sorcery ftw? It's second only to bals druids and svalt chalid.


    Sheaim does not completely anniliate everything (without bombarb) with two 1k techs (and a religion). Their defense compared to hunters and charm and assassins is questionable. Only when Teb has adepts, and svalt has only hunters, is power comparible. While Teb goes nowhere until strength of will or theo, svalt pwns at empyr + poison + law.
     
  13. EverNoob

    EverNoob Prince

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    I just tried it. You're right 1 archamage isn't enough.
     
  14. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I always forget that Domination no longer backfires, making your caster switch to its target's civ. Mind if pretty good I guess.

    Lightning elementals should really start with the promotions, and/or have its 3 lightning strength replaced with 1 (or maybe even 2, since it has no base strength) air affinity.
     
  15. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    Quoted For Truth. There are far earlier and easier ways to own the AI. There is no way this strategy is viable in multiplayer unless you are playing against completely incompetent adversaries in which case you don't need a good strategy anyway. Therefore, this strategy isn't worth that much. Sure you can do it, but whats the point?
     
  16. Ekolite

    Ekolite Deity

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    Well. I'd say the point is to have a bit of fun. What's the point in using the same, boring axeman rush in every game? Sometimes its nice to hold things off a bit until midgame and try new strategies, such as this one.

    Its kind of ironic how Faeryl has such a good synergy with the Empyrean now lol.
     
  17. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Couldn't it be feasible in multiplayer if you play with advanced starts, a later age, and lots of gold? (as the Amurites of course, and if you have lots of mana near your starting positon)
     
  18. slowcar

    slowcar King

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    only the warriors surviving the warrior rush get promotion to axemen.

    (in mp i enjoy some good builder game but deity AI just piles you with weak units)
     
  19. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    well any strategy is feasible with certain specific map conditions enabled. But who would honestly play a multiplayer game with settings to favor a few civs or strategies when there is the regular start that is significantly more balanced? I mean, you don't see many multiplayer games pitting doviello versus lanun on an archipelago map, do you? By the same token, why would anyone alter initial starting conditions to favor an opponent heavily?
     
  20. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Well, you could both be playing as the Amurites, or Sheaim, or other predominately late game civs.
     

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