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Most under-represented/weakened civ?

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by micbic, Sep 17, 2010.

?

So, which civ/civs should be stronger?

Poll closed Sep 24, 2010.
  1. Byzantium

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  2. France/Frankia

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  3. Arabia

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. Burgundy

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. Bulgaria

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Hungary

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  7. Poland

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  8. Kievan Rus

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  9. Muscovy

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  10. Germany

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Venice

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  12. Genova

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  13. England

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  14. Spain

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Cordoba

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  16. Portugal

    10 vote(s)
    30.3%
  17. Norse/Vikings

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  18. Sweden

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  19. The Dutch

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  20. Papal States (!!!)

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  21. Catalunya, Lithuania, or any other unplayable

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  22. Any at all

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,368
    the phrase ", but" means to negate what you said previous to that for example (not to pick on anyone, but...) "The Turk might be a peaceful person normally, but he belligerently argues with kochman."

    just an FYI (and maybe to poke fun at a pair)
     
  2. Wessel V1

    Wessel V1 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,443
    Location:
    Hamlet south of Amsterdam
    That is not true. At this stage, power has nothing to do with the ability to conquer Constantinople. The city is defended too well.
     
  3. Zipzapzup

    Zipzapzup Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    164
    Well i would say that the AI isn't smart enough to conquer it.
     
  4. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,758
    +1

    The Ottomans have tons of strong units. But in my latest two games the Byzans have fallen far earlier than the Ottoman spawn.
     
  5. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,920
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    If codable, the starting Great Bombards should bombard Constantinople first and then the other units should attack. It's just a thing the AI should know.
     
  6. FakeShady

    FakeShady Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Singapore
    Well the final say from the "Byzantine-man" (me), is that Byzantium, not just Constantinople, is currently too weeak to defend itself from external pre-Ottoman threats.

    Ottomans is without a doubt very strong, the only reason it doesnt wanna conquer Constantinople on some games (yes SOME games. cos there are also gamees where it does) is becos the AI thinks its not worth the losses given Constantinople's defensive bonuses. But lets not forget, more than half the time we're talking about a Constantinople that is not owned by Byzantium already.

    As a result, Byzantium should not be made weaker becos its weak enough already. Weakening it will just further make it even easier for the Bulgarians/Seljuk Turks/Crusaders. Ottomans should not be made stronger becos its strong enough already. Strengthening it more will just further make it even easier for an Ottoman human player (which is why im so angry at someone becos he refuses to admit the job is easy enough already). The only thing that can solve this problem is coding of the Ottoman AI to make it less timid.
     
  7. Daffy

    Daffy Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    388
    That reminds me of something that has bothered me about early Artillery in Civ.

    I'll try to simplify what I mean. (all excluding modern warfare)

    Artillery = throwing something destructive at an opponent from a large distance.
    I can't really think of a way how the throwing of an object itself can destroy the artillery unit (unless the catapult collapses during reloading)

    If Artillery is under attack however they have virtually no chance at defending themselves.


    My logic from this would be:
    Attacking Artillery always wins, the amount of damage done is relative.
    Artillery under attack always loses, can inflict some damage to the attacker.

    The only other option doesn't really fit with Civ since it's based on real-time.
    Both sides have Artillery, therefore both sides suffer losses simultaneously (if in eachothers range and both having ammo)
    Artillery is all about being able to fire at an opponent without him being able to fire back. If he can fire back, well your position sucks in that case. Changing it would be recommendable :)

    Sorry about the wrong thread, but I don't know in which one it would fit anyway
     
  8. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,368
    Wow, the Papal states is in third place
     
  9. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    A bit N of 2 tiles W of Athenai
    According to the poll... Germany, Spain and Bulgaria are the most overpowered civs.
     
  10. Shinewz

    Shinewz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Poland's researching rate is tragically low. Its Winged-Hussar never would be seen.
     
  11. FakeShady

    FakeShady Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Singapore
    Not necessarily. Although yes, i agree, but the poll just showed that these 3 civs are not underpowered, not necessarily overpowered. Big difference there ;)
     
  12. MrBanana

    MrBanana Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    380
    Location:
    Toronto
    The problem with Poland isn't intrinsic, but the AI and the starting location. The direct area of Poland is crap except for a coast city, and the AI is always at war with everyone.
     
  13. FakeShady

    FakeShady Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Singapore
    Just outta curiosity... has any of these weaker civs been made stronger in beta 3? Cos there doesnt seem to be much difference to me... or maybe its just me lol
     
  14. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    A bit N of 2 tiles W of Athenai
    None. Beta 3 has been more bugfixing and less balancing ;)
     

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