Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by jtwood, Sep 28, 2010.
Malkaviel disagreed with you.
I'm not sure why Americans are arguing if this is a problem or not. If George Washington had an Irish brogue or was speaking Dutch it might excite some vague feeling of understanding from them.
The leaders, to avoid controversy, should speak the language of the modern country which they are from or the ancient language they spoke, if possible. Approximations should not be allowed. It's insulting. There are cultures other than yours. Danish and German are not the same, Catalan and Spanish are not the same. If you belittle someone's culture by pretending their language doesn't matter, expect an angry response.
The most of the leaders are not from any modern countries...
You know, there were polyglots in ancient times, just as a great percentage of the world speaks more than one language today. Just because Darius was 6th century bc doesn't mean he was "Ugh, me caveman". As a matter of fact it's my understanding he was very educated. I think it's fine he speaks Aramaic, since adopting the Imperial Aramaic dialect was one of the best things he did to hold his far-reaching empire together.
If it offends you so much, just consider he was part of a movement than fought out from under the thumbs of semitic-speaking mesopotamians and took the whole place over.
I don't think anyone's arguing against that, but there's a scent of over reaction in the air.
I seem to recall that civ is a game? The leader could be speaking pig latin and it would have zero impact on gameplay. I could see laughing it off as Firaxis being clueless or even being mildly upset over unintended cultural ignorance, but to have a full blown nerd rage over what is essentially trivial is really, really silly.
I think one issue you've got with any of these leaders if you've got modern a nationalistic historical narrative, and history as we understand it that has a whole lot more holes and questions than the nationalistic narrative. The farther you go back fairly well believed history is often based on a lot of assumptions based on what little we've found with little to guarantee its accuracy.
What if any connection some of the ancient leaders have to modern nations other than a bit of geography IMO is highly questionable.
The battle of Thermopylae was a victory, just not a physical one. For three whole days, the 300 Spartans held at bay 30,000. In addition, they faced differing tactics and units from all over the known world. Darrius should have marched right through them without missing a step. So pyrrhic victory or not, Leonidas did in fact give "The God-King" a butt-whuppin.
As was stated ad nauseum in the film 300, it was not about a physical victory. It was about making "a god-king bleed". Sure, Darius would in fact go on to conquer most of Greece, as if there was any doubt, for the rest of his days, in the back of his mind, he never forgot the "bloody nose" that Leonidas gave him.
Back on topic, while Firaxis does what it can for accuracy in their games, they are far from being any kind of scholastic authority. That and accuracy can be a subjective term when dealing with historical facts. Talk with a Christian about the Crusades and you will get a very different answer from some of it's victims.
I think Firaxis should have stuck with the Old Persian for continuity and the Persian empire spoke it before they were conquered.
Actually I was under the impression that ancient 'persian' and farsi were not the same language; but that farsi was the language of the medes and an agglomeration of persian, parthian, and assyrian.
yeah but I agree having Darius speaking Arabic is a bit of a wtf.
There were a LOT more than 300 soldiers at Thermopylae. The heroic epic just sounds better that way. The majority of the Greek army pulled back when it was obvious they were flanked. The Spartans and about combined force of about 2-3k Spartans, Thessalians, Thebans, Phocians and Argives held the rear guard. Though the latter get little mention and the Spartans got all the good press.
Plaetea = much better Greek ass kicking. =)
I duno dude, the movie was pretty clear about the numbers
And, he would be wrong. Look up old persian. The oldest known inscription was written in old persian, not aramaic.
It's not that big a deal really. I'm English and I wouldn't mind if Liz had a Dutch accent and a husky old man's voice. It would be quite funny. "A Shmoke and a kipper"
I think the biggest uproar you could get from British people is if you gave Elizabeth an American accent. That'd really annoy people in the UK. America are the new France over here. I think the thing that bugs us is when we're trying to install some program and we're given a choice of various languages and there's no proper English as a choice! Just "English (US)". Tis rhubarb!
Another person that watches too much movies and interprets them as fact. There were literally thousands of soldiers at he battle, not just 300.
Its not about an accent. Its about speaking the language of the empire that conquered them
The Iranian complaint here is not unique and should not be surprising. I don't care if Thomas Jefferson spoke perfect French in his daily life. He should be speaking English in my game dialogue if he is to represent the USA appropriately.
I thought that was supposed to be George Washington?? I am not American, but it sure looks like old George to me.
I made a hypothetical case for an American equivalent to the issue.
It would be nice gameplay-wise, and in the Civ spirit of connecting with history, for Darius to interact with modern Iranian players in Farsi.
So basically what you guys who sympathize with this nut are saying is that Firaxis should cater to the ethnic and linguistic prejudices of the stereotypical Iranian? More specifically, this ONE guy? And ignore all historical plausibility by fixing Darius' language to be Farsi?
From everything that I've heard, Farsi as we know it wasn't even spoken at the time Darius reigned.
I understand the regional sensibilities but I'm not quite sure how much of a responsibility Firaxis (or any other company) has in transferring those into a GAME.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Darius was not emperor during The Battle of Thermopylae. That was his son, Xerxes. Pretty sure none of them were Disney villains with a god-king mentality either.
Aramaic seems pretty appropriate to me. He is after all just meeting the leader of a civilization he does not recognize, and what better way to show off than by displaying the great idea of an official state language, taken from the conquered fellows of one's empire? Speaking the native tongue might make everyone think Darius has yet to do any wicked conquering .
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