Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by M3dge, Apr 11, 2016.
Yeah, but those go out with Knights. Explorers stick around.
@M3dge- Crossbows + catapults is a strong and effective stack force to use in rushing your enemies. Now if you really want to have some fun, try out the Chinese UU the Cho-ko-nu. Select Qin Shi Huang of the Chinese, research pottery, archery, iron working, priesthood and build the Oracle. Take metal casting as the free tech. Research machinery build, whip, chop out an army of Cho-ko-nu's and go forth and conquer the world. The Chinese crossbow is my all time favorite unit in Civ4.
When I first started I used chariots or explorers as super medics but there were too many times where I needed just one more attacker. Or when you've got your stack of GG macemen cruising with with your curs. So you lose a few, it happens but those that survive till rifles become gods.
CRIII and superhealers.
I played an all war game as IMP with the GW and even after settling a few in my HE city, I still had over 15 super rifles in my cav stack. I think I lost 2 of them, no biggie.
Muskets also have random events for them. If you get lucky, a free Pinch I for Musketmen is really nice as they keep it through all later upgrades.
or the Guns or Butter event. Get that free golden age.
True, the issue's just never come up for me I guess. I almost always have the desired number of super medics (1, 2, sometimes 3) long before cavalry even become available.
Not a big fan of Muskets either. They always underwhelm me when I make the mistake of going for them. They can't get city raider, so won't be great city attackers, and don't have a bonus against any other unit or category of units. They're decent enough allrounders due to slightly higher strength, and can do a job as stack defenders, but I usually have other units for that, and mostly just attack cities anyway, where Maces are better, because you have siege anyway, so will bomb away walls. And once you have Cannons, you could almost attack with Cannons + warriors. Doesn't matter much what you clean up with, as long as they can do the job.
Triremes can have their use. The mentioned food defence against barb galleys, and also as galley protectors if you need to carry out naval invasions in the early-ish game. What hasn't been mentioned, is that triremes can be cheaply upgraded to caravels, and then you can pretty soon get circumnavigation on more watery maps (obviously useless on Pangaea). Have a trireme on both ends of your empire, upgrade, and send them in opposite directions. Soon all your ships have +1
Airships can be excellent for softening up top defenders, and also for scouting enemy lands, and their troop movements.
Not sure if I have ever built an Ironclad, so they fit in the category of "useless" for me. Okay, they do actually have a potential use as they have high strength, but meh. Usually don't built Privateers either, for the reason elitetroops mentioned. If I have a tech lead, I'd rather put hammers into offensive units that can take cities instead of a niche unit that can't really do all that much on its own.
Don't have much experience with late era units like planes and missiles, because my games usually end before they become a factor.
However, clearly the most useless unit in the game is the
That's fine. Sometimes in my case, a medic Explorer might get caught in no mans land and killed, or killed in a stack of other units that got wiped out, so I am able to build another medic explorer even late in the game if I want to.
I may sometimes build an ironclad when I go to war with an AI that has an Island city. The AI has a tendency to overbuild ships in that case, and it's amusing when a stack of 8 triremes lose to your ironclad protecting your fishes nearby. But rare. I can't ever remember building an explorer.
Because I >>love<< water maps and I >>hate<< nukes (better finish date - yes, more fun for me - not really ) I have different value of some units here.
Guided Missiles I love for attacks from sea at 1st wave. Reason - 100% sure (no RNG here, just certain HP damage) and easy to calculate how many I will need to take down exact city defenders (main target is AI naval stack city). Also I can build anywhere, stack anywhere and send anywhere. I usually have 6-7 submarines just hanging missiles - attack, take city, reload missiles from main missile stack city, move forward (if there is another coastal city to take this way.. or just next AI). Sure its not the way to get fastest finish date but.. I really enjoy this way. Atleast until AI got Bunkers.. than I might need 8-10 missiles to kill defender and that is too high cost (but at this time I should have Stealth Bombers anyway... or Space Ship near target).
Privateers - really situational but.. this is fastest way to get Blitz Destroyer for later wars
And can starve down AI sea-food cities too and with blocade/pillage these guys pays back pretty much everything (if include money AI lost, so you can win some tech races for Physics or Comunism...)
Airships are actually pretty nice complement to mounted warfare if your game goes that late. Softening units before attack. I use them a lot in Cur>Cav warfare and will often push my way quickly to Physics for them.
Muskets are really bad and get my vote. (granted that's on higher levels where their worth is very low) I do like Oromos though, especially to build and get some experience before Rifling...sick sick. A few musketeers complement mounted warfare as well for protection from pikes.
Ha...not sure I've ever built an Ironclad
If you have been lax exploring the map before physics, don't buy maps, use airships to zip around foreign cities and do recon.
On offense an airship reduces one unit's health by up to 20 percent. That's it, and no collateral unlike bombers. Sounds dinky but this is a direct hit to the base Strength. City defenders in particular tend to have modest strength and huge modifiers. This can really improve the odds when attacking them- save $$$ on suicide units. Like Seraiel said they are completely invulnerable until Intercept units start showing up. So it's like free attack-odds boosts, lying there for the taking. Definitely build airships.
Triremes - already covered. Great against barbarian Galleys and to insta-upgrade to Caravels for circumnavigation purposes.
Crossbows – not great. Stack defender unless Protective or China.
Muskets – yup, pretty poor usually.
Airships – Great to have in late stages of Cuir/Cavalry war, to weaken top AI defenders. Also helpful at sea when facing a technological equal... and they're the only air unit that can spot subs, for what that's worth.
Guided Missiles – like Airships, they’re useful in naval combat where it’s hard to get favourable attack odds against a healthy defender from the same era.
Ironclads – even less helpful than Muskets. Too slow to catch anything.
Privateers – less effective on higher levels, but they can be very effective against a slightly less advanced opponent. You can wreck an AI economy and collect GG and lots of cash. See: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=293611
Bombers – a fantastic unit for late-game conquest, but they eventually get nerfed by Bunkers. AI Fighters aren't an issue; you take those out with your own Fighters.
Tactical Nuke – cheaper than ICBM and can’t be intercepted as easily. Much better than ICBMs, IMO.
Here’s my useless list:
Anti-tank – completely pointless if you have Oil, almost pointless otherwise (AIs seldom build lots of tanks)
Explorer – unless you’re on a ridiculously big map, or one with a deliberately empty continent, there’s nothing for them to do by the time they’re available.
Paratrooper – not useless but verrrrrry situational. Would be much better if they could attack after Paradrop.
SAM Infantry – great in AI hands, but humans should just build more Fighters.
A poorly-thought-out design choice came when the Woodsman III Promotion was added for the BtS expansion. Unlike Woodsman II, Woodsman III was not made available to Recon units (Scouts and Explorers), presumably due to the partially-offensive nature of the Woodsman III Promotion.
But, logically, Recon units should be able to become expert woodsmen and woodswomen. From a gameplay perspective, +2 First Strikes and +15% Healing (on the current square) would be incredibly useful to have as an option for these units.
If further development had been done on the game, it is a logical to expect to have seen a patch with a refinement of the Woodsman III Promotion being added to Recon units.
This one simple change would make an Explorer unit far more powerful than it is today, giving it the ability to have the same healing ability as a Medic III aka Super Medic unit (but only for the current square instead of for the Super Medic's current square plus adjacent surrounding squares) while only needing the same amount of Promotions as a Super Medic requires (4 Promotions) due to an Explorer already starting with Woodsman I (and thus needing Woodsman II, Woodsman III, Combat I, and Medic I) but without needing to use a Great General.
A useless unit is pretty much any unit that I control.
I have a few units that I never (or rarely) build and are essentially useless to me:
Explorers - Why? Enough said.
Trebuchets - I never seem to get around to building these very much. I usually have a fleet of cats, and I put my hammers into knights and heavy footmen/crossbowmen/longbows and wait for cannons.
Cuirassieurs - I usually jump from knights to cavalry for some reason, and cuirs are never available. If I get to build them at all, it's very few of them.
Ironclads - too slow to be effective, IMO.
Airships - Never thought much of them, but after reading this thread, maybe I'll build some.
Privateers - stupid things never seem to be available to me until the AI has frigates. Then they just get sunk.
Pikemen - Not sure why. They are quite useful.
Gunships - Can't take cities. Only really effective against armor.
Some fun units that I like:
Guided missile - Put 20 of these in every city and have a blast. They make great stack killers. I usually have a city that just pumps out these puppies, one per turn.
Rifles - Drill line promoted rifles will take out tanks by Drill IV (easy to get with Toku)
Aw man, you are missing out on Cuirassier-driven 17th century-style pwnage. I didn't use Curs for the longest time, then I did and now I'm a believer
You're also missing out on gunships! 4 movement means their pillaging is unrivaled. When they have blitz things get really fun
Your logic convinces me right up to the part where expert Woodspeople are better at fixing damaged Tanks than anyone else IOW, it totally makes sense to allow Recon units to get Woody 3... but it doesn't make sense that Woody3 should provide better healing than Medic does.
You don't like Trebs or Cuirs? In my games, I either go for one or the other, and if I have neither, medieval war is almost impossible. Goes to show how many ways there are to play the game.
On very water heavy maps, tyhe AI greatly under-values astronomy and thus is it quite possible to get Chemistry before the AI even has astronomy well into immortal difficulties, and maybe even deity for the best players here.
In those cases, the game is instantly won on any speed slower than Quick (privateers are just completely useless on quick, unfortunately). Whip whip whip every city down into privateers and, this is key, blockade every city on the map. They will starve and never recover. On really really watery maps you can get cities down to 2 population, no resources and no trades frequently, which even to an AI is dead weight. Plus, the AI will actually whip out triremes from their starving cities, speeding up the process. From that point on, thee cities will never produce any real commerce, will spend all of their hammers on combat units that have no chance, and will use all of there worker turns on farms > workshops > cottages, repeat. On Epic or slower speeds, just getting chemistry before they do is enough.
Is it better than rifles before anyone else? No, not BETTER, but just as good, as a guaranteed win is a guaranteed win.
I believe airships can see submarines, although no other air unit can?
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