Mountain combat modifier

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

Mountains are impassable for most units in the game. And the units able to "pass over", can't stand ground, even less fortify on it.

So, exactly how does the below combat modifier value (25%) translates in the game?

 

[Chum]

Mountains are impassable for most units in the game. And the units able to "pass over", can't stand ground, even less fortify on it.

So, exactly how does the below combat modifier value (25%) translates in the game?

Carthage can stop on mountains. They just take damage when they do.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

True.
And that makes it even more confusing. Even assuming that the combat modifier (25%) refers specifically to Carthaginians, it's still useless (and even prejudicial) to station their units on a Mountain, due to the 50 HP damage they take by doing so.

 

[shaglio]

Can't Helicopter Gunships also stop on mountain tiles? Perhaps the 25% defense is for ranged attacks against them?

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

I too thought of the same, shaglio. It's the only reasonable possibility I came across.

I'm currently installing the game on my new PC, so I'll have to wait a bit before testing anything.

 

[Chum]

True.
And that makes it even more confusing. Even assuming that the combat modifier (25%) refers specifically to Carthaginians, it's still useless (and even prejudicial) to station their units on a Mountain, due to the 50 HP damage they take by doing so.

Not everything has to be useful in a game.

The reason the mountains probably have that modifier is because hills have it. And if you get 25% bonus to combat for having the high ground, then you have to carry that logic forward to other high ground. The fact that it's going to rarely be used doesn't matter -- it's just a simple line of code. Whether or not it gets used on a frequent basis is irrelevant, but you would see people complaining if it gave a lesser bonus (or even a penalty) compared to hills because it truly wouldn't make sense.

 

[claudiupb]

Interesting fact is that mountains don't behave like hills for movement points, they behave like flat terrain. With Carthage a worker can enter the mountain tile, and on the same turn begin working on a road. This allows the player to complete roads over mountains without losing workers.

Do mountains grand defensive bonuses to adjacent cities? This might explain the 25% bonus.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

I doubt it, claudiu. The rule for combat modifier (if I'm not mistaken), always and only apply to that specific tile.

 

[GenuineRisk]

Can't Helicopter Gunships also stop on mountain tiles? Perhaps the 25% defense is for ranged attacks against them?

Helicopters don't get defensive terrain bonuses. (logically)

True.
And that makes it even more confusing. Even assuming that the combat modifier (25%) refers specifically to Carthaginians, it's still useless (and even prejudicial) to station their units on a Mountain, due to the 50 HP damage they take by doing so.

Uh... just because it's a bad idea to end a turn on a mountain, it doesn't mean the units shouldn't get a terrain bonus for being on it. Carthaginian infantry can attack units on the other side of a mountain and if they kill them, they don't take damage from the mountain but get the 25% terrain bonus from the mountain because they end up on the other side. I'm not sure what is confusing about that.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

Helicopters don't get defensive terrain bonuses. (logically)

Not quite.
In real life, the features of a mountain do provide some protection to units flying through it, by making it harder (for example), to aim at.

Uh... just because it's a bad idea to end a turn on a mountain, it doesn't mean the units shouldn't get a terrain bonus for being on it.

Yes, it doesn't mean that.
It's just that it doesn't make much sense that it provides a defensive bonus, only to remove 50 HP from units that finish their turn there.

It's like, the all idea behind the combat modifier gets virtually nullified.

Carthaginian infantry can attack units on the other side of a mountain and if they kill them, they don't take damage from the mountain but get the 25% terrain bonus from the mountain because they end up on the other side. I'm not sure what is confusing about that.

There's nothing confusing about your explanation. It was actually very clear.
It's just that you have a better understanding of this subject and thus, the answer seemed more obvious to you than it probably is to most people.

 

[Ryika]

Not quite.
In real life, the features of a mountain do provide some protection to units flying through it, by making it harder (for example), to aim at.

If you use that logic, then horsemen should also benefit from terrain modifiers, because a Horseman in a Forest would also be harder to aim at by a troop that sits outside of the forest.

Civ clearly takes a "broader" approach to terrain bonuses. Horsemen are a fast unit that generally is strongest in fast flanking attacks, so they don't get terrain bonuses. And Helicopters are flying units so they don't get terrain bonuses either.

 

[Nares]

Not everything has to be useful in a game.

And most games are filled with left over junk from other design avenues explored during development.

They probably didn't consider it worth the effort to remove the bonus.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

If you use that logic, then horsemen should also benefit from terrain modifiers, because a Horseman in a Forest would also be harder to aim at by a troop that sits outside of the forest.

Civ clearly takes a "broader" approach to terrain bonuses. Horsemen are a fast unit that generally is strongest in fast flanking attacks, so they don't get terrain bonuses. And Helicopters are flying units so they don't get terrain bonuses either.

That's true, Ryika.
Although it's not absurd to think that a flying unit passing through a mountain is relatively less fragile and exposed to an ambush/attack, than a mounted unit.

Anyway, I'll stick to Nares logic.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Helicopters don't get defensive terrain bonuses. (logically)

Uh... just because it's a bad idea to end a turn on a mountain, it doesn't mean the units shouldn't get a terrain bonus for being on it. Carthaginian infantry can attack units on the other side of a mountain and if they kill them, they don't take damage from the mountain but get the 25% terrain bonus from the mountain because they end up on the other side. I'm not sure what is confusing about that.

You only get the 25% bonus if the combat is in that tile, so it is only for units in the mountain getting attacked.

Essentially if you are Forced to stop in the mountains for 1 turn it is a little harder for your enemy to kill you. (although you need to be out by the second turn.)

 

[reddishrecue]

That bonus could apply to other Carthaginians that are attacking Carthaginians fortified in a mountain since they are the only ones who can climb mountains.

 

[GenuineRisk]

You only get the 25% bonus if the combat is in that tile, so it is only for units in the mountain getting attacked.

Yes, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking there...