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move after end turn - has it helped?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Multiplayer' started by MasterMishi, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. MasterMishi

    MasterMishi Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    251
    If at least 1 other player has not ended turn then you can now resume your turn after you ended it. It's nice if you changed your mind regarding barbs or ai or a worker move, but has it really changed anything when you are at war with a human?

    It is still best to wait just before the timer runs out and then move (double move )or you are vulnerable to this yourself.

    Another trickery during a fortified cold war standoff is to feint no action by hitting end turn then try to time resuming your turn just as your opponent ends their turn, then quickly moving and then ending turn before they can resume their turn (double move) :crazyeye:

    So the safest way to play it is to just let the timer run down :sad:

    What are folks' experiences with this in competetive multi?

    MM
     
  2. effb

    effb Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    30
    This double-move thing is a big reason why my friends and I can't stand MP. The other reason is that combat is a mad clickfest - whoever clicks first attacks first, which is usually a big advantage. Due to how laggy the game is, a lot of times you'll think you're attacking a unit, but it moved out of the way while your action was being "processed" so you just move to the tile it used to be in. Naval battles are a joke given how far units can move in a single turn. All this means you can definitely not successfully wage wars on multiple fronts. Civ was never meant to be played in real time, and it shows :)

    All that said, my crowning achievement in MP was the following:

    - I was playing China
    - I had 4 archers near the enemy capital, but they'd been there for dozens of turns, so it wasn't looking suspicious.. after all archers are defensive units, right?
    - for the last several turns, I was taking the longest time to end my turn, making the other players bored after they ended their turn (some told me to speed up). but this was part of the plan..
    - on the turn I researched Machinery, again I waited the full turn timer, and right before the end I upgraded all 4 archers to Cho-ko-nu and ended turn ASAP
    - start of next turn, I either move+attack or just attacked with all 4 cho-ko-nu and took his capital down to 1 health, walked in with a pikeman and took it. he said he didn't even see it happening, because he wasn't paying attention at the start of the turn
    - double move FTW!
    - he ragequit soon after

    Ok, that was incredibly cheap, but well within the rules. Now I'm sure people have developed tactics over time to mitigate this sort of thing, such as always letting the timer run out as you mentioned.

    The bottom line though, is Civ is a totally different game in multiplayer. Not just different tactics (such as how RTS games play differently in SP/MP) but a whole different genre (turn based vs realtime). Everyone I talked to about it said multiplayer just isn't fun.

    I don't know how to fix multiplayer. Obviously, forcing it to be turn based is not viable, since it would makes games way longer (2x longer for 2 players, 3x for 3 players, etc).
     
  3. RenegadePeon

    RenegadePeon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    Obviously, multiplayer won't be changed, but I think a better system would be processed moves. IE

    Step 1) All players make their moves simultaneously, but no unit moves until all players hit end turn.
    Step 2) Unit combat orders occur first (ranged attacks are processed first, then melee. Random unit chosen to be attacker when both units are attacking during same turn. Units unable to attack due to another destroying their target do not use up their movement points).
    Step 3) Unit move orders occur next.
    Step 4) Units that can still move/ attack get another turn.
    Step 5) Repeat Step 2 and 3 until units are out of moves/attacks.
    Step 6) Next turn.

    Similar system is used in other turn based strategy games such as Dominions, Deadlock, and Conquest of the New World.
     
  4. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    253
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    It's great for fixing things you forgot or catching cities you put on production focus that are starving themselves before they tick of a pop point.

    It's also great for doing exceedingly cheap attacks after you have 'ended' your turn.

    Likewise, it is helpful to be able to counter the before-mentioned exceeding cheap attacks because you can un-end your turn and start defending/countering.

    Overall, I'd say it is a HUGE improvement. The cheap attackers from the past are going to be the same as they are now, nothing will change them, just like nothing will change useless Mohawk rushers- but now the good players/honest players if you want to call them that- can defend themselves instead of watch half their army die after they ended their turn. Additionally, you can change things you forgot while people are taking forever to end their turns.
     
  5. KiffeLesBiffles

    KiffeLesBiffles Do you like dogs?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    Paris
    It improves the combat in multi:

    -you cant do huge double move at the end of the turn because the other players can react
    -You can fix things you forget
    -Players play quicker with that system.

    The only thing that went wrong imo: you cant save your move in a stack for the next turn. Now, the begining of the turn turns into a huge clickfest during combat.
     

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