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Move to heal or stay put?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Victoria, May 4, 2019.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Before xmas I noticed I always moved to a better healing position to heal (like into a city) and realised the action may be fruitless so did a simple table on it.I was just clearing out some struff and came across it and thought it is a small thing but I had overlooked it so maybe others had.
    Red = you will lose turns moving to this position to this position from the line above
    Yellow = there is no healing benefit from moving to this position from the line above
    Green = there is benefit moving to this position to this position from the line above

    upload_2019-5-4_14-20-22.png

    The interesting thing was that unless on 0-9 HP or 20-24 there is no point moving into a city if already in friendly territory unless for another reason and that often healing in neutral territory was a fast as healing in friendly territory if not badly damaged. Much faster healing is moving from enemy to Neutral territory to heal.
    Note that better healing ability means less point in moving so medics or the scientist ability or others like mamluks have less reason to move to a better spot.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  2. criZp

    criZp Warlord

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    I'm not so hyper competitive so I just move the units into friendly territory, but not into a city (unless there's one right next to the unit)
     
  3. smvalentine

    smvalentine Chieftain Supporter

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    It appears you are assuming it will take you only one turn to reach the next better type of territory in all cases. If it takes 2 or more to say move from neutral to friendly there won't be any advantage if you are at 30 or above, and you'll be worse off in many more cases.

    The greater consideration for me is often the risk of being attacked while healing if staying put.
     
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  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I am merely making a post to point out that often moving to heal gives no additional healing benefit and I personally was moving in ignorance.
    It is a small point and not worth a thousand lines of analysis, the post alone gives the thought, and that is what counts.
    Moving from enemy to neutral can be worth 3+ turns if you want to be pedantic. The graph gives enough information to extrapolate how you want, no assumption, the colours are for one turn but the graph is for life.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  5. Midgardsormr

    Midgardsormr Chieftain

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    Thanks for the number-crunching. I've always just followed my gut, but as in most cases, thinking with one's intestines is not the most efficient strategy!
     
  6. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Lol, I might print out that graph to keep at my desk! Handy tool.

    Generally I'll leave units in enemy territory until they dip below 50% then retreat to neutral or friendly territory. If I can get a badly damaged unit to a city center or encampment it's not really for the extra healing, it's for protection.
     
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  7. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Is that calculating turns to get to 100%? Because often it's not worth wasting that extra turn once you get to 80 or 90+.

    Although generally speaking, the biggest reasons to move to a city is because I need a garrison unit there, and those 4 turns to heal is 4 turns I have a garrison unit sitting there gaining loyalty, which should be enough for me to take the next city and not need a garrison anymore.

    My bigger takeaway from that is that virtually no cases except when you're already at 70+ is it worse to move to a better healing spot. Although in a few of those above cases, I would probably make the argument it should be considered worse. For example,if I'm in neutral at 75, I'd probably rather just sit for 1 or 2 turns and keep going at 85 or 95 rather than move to a better healing spot.
     
  8. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Chieftain

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    Thanks for the proof, @Victoria

    I always wondered if I was wasting turns, but do not posses the analytical mind to mathematically prove it.
     
  9. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    More information is always a Good Thing in a game based on numerical relationships. Very good and thanx again, @Victoria

    But, simple numerical relationships are never the whole story in a game with as many different relationships as Civ VI. Along with speed of healing and amount of healing required, you have to consider how dangerous the current unit location is, which is a product of both what kind of enemies are nearby and the type of terrain in the tile.
    If I have a unit sitting at 60% or less strength on an open grassland or plains tile, I will almost always move it to the nearest hill/forest/rainforest tile with a defensive bonus and movement impediment Just In Case. Taking an extra turn to do that is worth it, just for my peace of mind.
    The same type of consideration applies to the type of enemy that is around: ranged units versus melee, especially ranged with 2 tile range that can sit back and keep you from healing at all, Barbarians that are 100% certain to attack you versus Civilization units that will frequently stop and heal themselves before attacking, units that have a bonus against you damaged unit, etc.

    As the Germans taught in their Kriegsakademie before WWII: (There are) "No 'Book' Solutions" - the immediate situation is always more important than the theory, or abstract numerical relationships.

    But it's still very nice to know the numbers.
     
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  10. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    I often think about the best spot to heal and I usually do a quick mental math calculation in game. Usually this occurs when clearing out barb camps in the early game or attacking a city in the mid/late game. As a general rule of thumb, it's best to heal in neutral territory when clearing barb camps, especially if your are 2+ turns away from friendly territory. When attacking a city it is also generally best to heal outside the city borders. Of course other factors come into play such as likelihood of being attacked and if moving a unit no longer makes the city under siege.
     
  11. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    I was more or less applying what you suggest but seeing the numbers behind it is somewhat interesting, making moves a bit more clever for my part :)
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes I was very surprised when I saw the figures, it is a small thing but did change my game.
     
  13. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    well friendly is 15 ,city is 20 , net bonus is 5 so moving to the city cost you 15 heal = three turn of bonus so unless you need 5 turn to heal at 15 (25hp or less) it's not worth it, at 4 (40hp or less) it breaks even so there is only the protection to factor in your decision. The table is a nice visualization tho.
    The same calculation can be made for friendly vs neutral ,except the breaking point is then 2 turns , so unless you need three turn to heal (70hp or less) it's not worth the wait. Althought since the number are smaller it's already intuitive in game.
     

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