Move to hill for first city?

[StormEye]

I've been reading through strategies, and have been reading some people saying giving up first turn to move to a city to settle is better for a long run, while suffering really slightly on tech, but it is not much issue as the building and unit you want to start off building will not finish until the next available wonder you want to build is available through tech, even if settling on first turn.

Not even sure if I am getting this correctly or not.

But the main question is, should I give up my first turn to move up my settler to a hill?

Also, if someone can explain to me some reasoning behind it as well it will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[nefloyd]

Why a hill? Don't cities normalize the output of the tile they are in, regardless of what's there? Settling on a hill costs you Windmills later on, that much I know. The only time I give up my first turn moving is if I spawn near, but not on, a river.

 

[StormEye]

Well, I am not sure myself as well, hence I am asking if there is any reasoning behind this.

And if anything, the question can also be, how important is it to give up the first turn (maybe two?) to find a better settling spot?

 

[ahte]

The only advantage to settling on a hill is that it boosts your city defence and it gives your garrisoned units LoS over adjacent hills - so it's a much better place to be if you're going to be on the defensive. That being said, it's not that big a boost, so unless you're playing MP or on one of the higher difficulties where you can fairly safely assume someone's going to try an early rush against you, I wouldn't worry about it.

However, moving on to the second part of the question - never be afraid to move your settler, and don't worry too much about having to settle on turn 0, 1, or even (at a push) 2. Always, always start by moving your warrior to reveal more of the map and look for a good spot. Look out for rivers, mountains, coast, and luxes. Think of it this way: The benefits of a well-positioned capital will last you all game, which is what, 250-300 turns? Losing one or two turns early on while you find a good spot for a 300 turn advantage is an easy choice.

 

[StormEye]

Thank you. Thats good that I should not worry too much about my unlucky starting position, if a better location is relatively near me.

Hill idea is scrapped then, as it provides no real merit. Not sure why some people mentioned it in some of the posts I have read, and it contained nothing that you have mentioned (ie line of sight).

 

[ahte]

Thank you. Thats good that I should not worry too much about my unlucky starting position, if a better location is relatively near me.

Hill idea is scrapped then, as it provides no real merit. Not sure why some people mentioned it in some of the posts I have read, and it contained nothing that you have mentioned (ie line of sight).

Oops, sorry, didn't mean line of sight at all. What I meant was line of effect (an archer on a hill can target an enemy on the other side of an adjacent hill). Of course, you always have LoS inside your own borders.

Also, I'm glad to hear you're not just rerolling as soon as you get a less than perfect start. I'm sure that people are far too quick to throw in the towel when they don't get exactly the terrain they want on their first turn.

 

[NotSure]

It's fairly common for players to move the initial settler onto a hill or river, or away from the coast, or for a number of other reasons. As far as the hill move is concerned, the considerations are:
1. If you settle on grassland, you add one production only to the tile. If you settle in forest, you add one food to the tile. If you settle on a hill, you add two food to that tile which, obviously, makes the hill settlement the strongest tile.

2. Increase in city strength. This used to be very important in vanilla CiV, but is probably less important in G&K.

3. Instant mining resources. Settling on gems, gold or silver gives you gold immediately on the center tile. The happiness or ability to sell the resource comes as soon as you research Mining. This gives you the ability to expand quicker or purchase a worker/unit.

I only move the initial settler about half the time. I usually do it to get closer to a bonus or luxury resource but sometimes I'll do it to get away from a coastal start that has no bonus or luxury sea resources. I don't usually climb onto a hill unless I see there are plenty of production tiles available and my settler landed on one of only a few good food tiles.

 

[Koiranputki]

...but sometimes I'll do it to get away from a coastal start that has no bonus or luxury sea resources....

Hmmmm...I'm curious why you don't want to be on the coast.......I always seem to really want to be on a good coastal location. Am I missing something ..???... I typically play at the prince level...and still in "vanilla"...

 

[pxpdoo]

Hmmmm...I'm curious why you don't want to be on the coast.......I always seem to really want to be on a good coastal location. Am I missing something ..???... I typically play at the prince level...and still in "vanilla"...

Ditto. Even if there are no resources, the Lighthouse still works, and you have a port city to help build your Navy...

 

[NotSure]

Hmmmm...I'm curious why you don't want to be on the coast.......I always seem to really want to be on a good coastal location. Am I missing something ..???... I typically play at the prince level...and still in "vanilla"...

Because coastal tiles are 1 & 1 unimproved. Even if you get a lighthouse, it only improves them to 2 & 1 . I suppose it's not a big deal, but I want more out of my tiles than that. I also play a lot of pangea maps, so that has a lot to do with it. If you're planning on using commerce (which is great now, btw) and/or playing continents/island maps, then any coastal sites are probably preferable.

 

[TallNSturdy]

I also prefer not to have a coastal city for my first city, it is like halving the workable tiles unless all you care about is gold. Unless there are fish a plenty or 2 of the same water lux I prefer my 2nd or 3rd city to be coastal. Less farmable land means slower growth and for me halving the chance of getting iron or horses in my inital city doesn't feel optimal. That being said if I start next to the ocean I don't restart, just play a bit diff at the beginning.

 

[ShredZ]

I hope this isnt too far off topic, but I think its valid considering the OP:

What happens to resources that are settled on, I realize they are auto-mined etc, but do you lose out on the opportunity for the extra bonus from mining or pasteurizing etc? If its bad, wouldnt that be a reason NOT to move your first settler?

 

[RedRover57]

If you settle directly on a resource you may lose out slightly in terms of total potential for food/hammers/gold from that tile, but you will have instant access to that resource when you research the appropriate tech. In addition, you don't lose things like the wonder production bonus from marble if you settle directly on the marble. So you just need to weigh the pros and cons in your particular situation. Settling directly on unique luxury and/or strategic resources with your first few cities in the early game can really get you off to a fast start. However, the best strategy is highly situational and needs to be determined for your particular game/map.

 

[Calouste]

Another thing to take into account is not just what is in the tiles where you settle, it is also important what is in the tiles right next to it. Unless you are France, you are limited to the tiles adjacent to your capital for the first 10-15 turns. Try settling next to two resources.

 

[kamex]

I thought you gained an extra hammer setting on a hill. Was this removed?

 

[NotSure]

I thought you gained an extra hammer setting on a hill. Was this removed?

No, you still get the production. I probably worded it poorly in my post. 2 food & 3 production is pretty good. You can't replicate that until Civil Service. I also forgot to mention the heavy jungle starts I'm getting in G&K. This is another good example for settling on hills/mining resources. If I find a gem covered in jungle, I almost always move my settler onto that tile (provided there's a good balance of food & production). Doing this allows you to skip Bronze Working for a while and adds gold to the center tile which is much better than having to assign an unhappy citizen to a calendar resource.